Biggest game system let downs or pleasant surprises?

[louisg]

It's a shame the graphics were so ass -- 32x32 textures smeared over half the field anyone? Eeyuch.

Aw c'mon. You didn't want those textures anyway. Most of the best looking games during the age of Atari 2600-quality 3d used flat color or simple simple textures. Name one exception!

Ha.. I'm prone to agreeing. Something like Virtua Racing, Tempest 2000, or even I, Robot in all their computery glory looks almost objectively better than those textured games that wobble and have cracks between the scenery. You really need high res and perspective correction to make texturing look ok, though I can see why people preferred the graphical richness of textures at the time. Though, I think voxel and raycast engines held up well enough.

You have to give N64 props at least for being the first console with decent quality texture mapping, even if it was at an apparent framerate cost. There are games on that system I think do look pretty good. If computery and attractive is what we're after, F-Zero X fits the bill!

[Obiwanshinobi]

I shall defend early texture mapping fervently. If anything, early hardware acceleration (deceleration, more like) has aged worse.
I do wish more 3D games of PSX/Saturn/N64 era had untextured polygons like Tobal, and I wish more PS2 games had raw, pixellated textures like Romancing SaGa: Minstrel Song, but some PlayStation games have incredible genius loci to certain locations thanks to the textures (Silent Hill, Vagrant Story, Einhänder). It takes a CRT with RGB or component input to appreciate it fully, though. My favourite bit of Einhänder is when you leave the city lights behind just before the train set piece, and fly over some concrete ruins, desolate and forlorn. Texturing is spot on there (although YouTube vid hardly gives one any idea how groovy it looks on a proper setup).
In the end, however, N64's biggest flaw was the performance of most games. The likes of 1080° Snowboarding (schools Shadow of the Colossus on the subject "how to push the platform"), S&P and F-Zero X were painstakingly sparse.
Speaking of 1080° Snowboarding, did any game released between it and Superbike 2001 have equally sweet realistic animations?
F-Zero X wasn't much of a looker, was it? Other games at the time had more flashy "computer" looks.

I can't say I've felt let down by any game system really apart from the Neo Geo Pocket Color which I bought fairly recently. It seems a great little handheld and most of its games are supposed to be good (I've only played Card Fighters Clash) - but I can't see a bloody thing on that screen!

Seems like there's no turning back from the backlit screens of today. Even GBA SP I bought recently (seems to be the first, frontlit model) slightly disappointed me initially (even though I remember the original GBA with its visibility issues). I got used to my SP's screen finally; it has certain charm to it (although in a pastel-coloured game such as Sword of Mana the picture ends up too washed out).
I'm quite disappointed by the level of noise my SP's stereo amp outputs via the adapter hooked up the charging socket, as I usually play with decent earphones or headphones. No big deal once I get into a game, but it's louder than my iRiver and my SBLive! - both fairly dated devices.

[null1024]

It's a shame the graphics were so ass -- 32x32 textures smeared over half the field anyone? Eeyuch.

Aw c'mon. You didn't want those textures anyway. Most of the best looking games during the age of Atari 2600-quality 3d used flat color or simple simple textures. Name one exception!

Ha.. I'm prone to agreeing. Something like Virtua Racing, Tempest 2000, or even I, Robot in all their computery glory looks almost objectively better than those textured games that wobble and have cracks between the scenery. You really need high res and perspective correction to make texturing look ok, though I can see why people preferred the graphical richness of textures at the time. Though, I think voxel and raycast engines held up well enough.

You have to give N64 props at least for being the first console with decent quality texture mapping, even if it was at an apparent framerate cost. There are games on that system I think do look pretty good. If computery and attractive is what we're after, F-Zero X fits the bill!

Honestly, no: I'll take Daytona USA with its fewer polys any day over Virtua Racing. Although, Daytona at least had some decent textures + mapping [talking about arcade versions for both, texture warping in say, the Saturn version is terrible and bad in every way, and thinking about how Daytona might have had an SVP version makes me cringe a bit].

Also, F-Zero X had a few things going for it: there wasn't much other than the tiny cars [of which small textures worked very very well for] and the nearly non-existent scenery. Plus, everything was moving deliciously fast, so you didn't have the time to look at how shitty and smeary the textures were. So, it worked.

Early texturing had only three issues: were the textures themselves any good, were they detailed enough for the objects they were on, and were they rendered well [eg, filtering, warping]? Unfiltered low-res textures looked far better than filtered ones [although, if you turned off texture filtering in say, a Dreamcast game, it'll look worse because the textures are high-res enough not to look like a smeared mess when filtered -- in fact the filtering enhances them].

[Gus]

I guess F-Zero X is alright if you look past the fact that GX is better in every way and leaves pretty much no reason to bother with X or really any other racing game ever.

[Obiwanshinobi]

I think the most notable technical achievement of F-Zero X wasn't the graphics, but being the first (?) silly fast polygonal racer running at 60 fps on a console. WipEout 2097/XL and Ridge Racer on PSX run at 30 fps at best (although RR Type 4/Turbo brought 60 fps to the table shortly after).

[BIL]

R4 doesn't run at 60 fps, not that it has framerate problems as it is. The RR Turbo demo includes notes on it being a byproduct of Namco deciding 60 fps R4 was infeasible and targeting 30 fps instead.

[Drum]

I guess F-Zero X is alright if you look past the fact that GX is better in every way and leaves pretty much no reason to bother with X or really any other racing game ever.

X has way better music!

[Skykid]

R4 doesn't run at 60 fps, not that it has framerate problems as it is. The RR Turbo demo includes notes on it being a byproduct of Namco deciding 60 fps R4 was infeasible and targeting 30 fps instead.

Holy crap.

Are you suggesting Obiwanshinobi doesn't know a 60fps framerate when he sees one?

Credibility just left the building.

[Obiwanshinobi]

The only Ridge Racer for PSX I've seen running on the real thing was the very first one. It's Wikipedia where I read as follows:

Ridge Racer Turbo

R4: Ridge Racer Type 4 includes a bonus disc containing a new version of the original Ridge Racer, called Ridge Racer Turbo (known in Europe as Ridge Racer Hi-Spec Demo). The NTSC version of this game runs at 60 frames per second (PAL version 50 frame/s) with Gouraud shading utilised on the car models, as seen in R4.

[BIL]

That article is a bit confusingly written. It's saying Gouraud shading is used in both R4 and the RR Turbo demo, not 60 fps. You can see Namco's own production notes from RR Turbo here.

R4 itself isn't 60 fps, but like most dependably 30 fps games it plays fine. There was a tradeoff here, as well. Despite them not feeling as silky-smooth, the sense of sheer rushing speed in Rage Racer, R4 and WO2097's fastest vehicles is beyond FZX's, due to the latter's near-total lack of graphical detail.

[Obiwanshinobi]

(Whatever it says.)

Even that 1994 RR is still pretty rad. A venerable example of early 3D methinks.

Despite them not feeling as silky-smooth, the sense of sheer rushing speed in Rage Racer, R4 and WO2097's fastest vehicles is beyond FZX's, due to the latter's near-total lack of graphical detail.

Wasn't the FPP view making all the difference? I thought WipEout and RR are about first person view.

[Skykid]

Wasn't the FPP view making all the difference? I thought WipEout and RR are about first person view.

Wipeout is practically unplayable in first person, RR the other way around.

[BIL]

Wasn't the FPP view making all the difference?

No, I definitely wouldn't say so. Those PS1 games feel fast as fuck even in third-person. It's down to the presence or lack of details tearing past the eyes.

First-person would've definitely added to FZX though, by emphasising the track texture... used to disappoint me slightly that you could see it running in FPP by going to the lap records, but never try it out in-game. I don't really care these days, TPP is too handy for double-tap dives and the like. Kind of like I never bother with 1080's first-person mode since I can't see the board.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Played only the PC version of 2097 briefly, but this FPP vid sure looks cool.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

It's a visual treat to fire up the 60fps High-Spec Ridge Racer game demo disc that came with the Japanese PSX version of RR4. I tried it out on a modded PSX with a Japanese Scart cable fed into one of viletim's Scart to Jamma adapters on my candy cab and it was like playing the original RR game at the arcades. Super silky smooth arcade-spec framerate indeed. Of course, it's running in 480 interlaced mode at best but still cool nevertheless.

Yeah, it would've been an miracle/feat of engineering if Namco was able to pull off a 60fps spec-version of RR4 on the PSX. That'd be one helluva a PSX powered RR game to play/own indeed. The PS2 powered RR5 runs in 480i mode as well but with a 60fps framerate. The original Namco System256 powered RR5 twin sit-down deluxe cab was smoking hot...got the proper chance to try it out a few times at a local movie theater back in the day (2005-2006).

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Skykid]

Played only the PC version of 2097 briefly, but this FPP vid sure looks cool.

I always thought FPP was cool in Wipeout, but I always thought of it as being for a bit of fun. That guy on the vid is terrific, but it's really crazy hard to judge airbrake distances like that.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

The first person perspective viewpoint featured in Wipeout2097 (aka Wipeout XL for North America) is quite dramatic.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Ganelon]

As of Wip3out 3, it's clear that WipEout is intended for 3rd person view. In cockpit view, wall scraping effectively will be several times more difficult.
Ridge Racer has always been intended for 1st person view. In 3rd person view, beating the devil cars without a rear-view mirror will be several times more difficult.

Plus, these intended views are also the default views in these respective games. Personally, I always use FPP in racers if there aren't any detriments.

As for frame rate, it's interesting that Omega Boost did achieve 60fps and looks just as impressive as R4 in terms of polygonal models. But I suppose R4's luscious environments made the difference, and I definitely think Namco made the right choice in going with look over speed in that case.

[Obiwanshinobi]

As for frame rate, it's interesting that Omega Boost did achieve 60fps and looks just as impressive as R4 in terms of polygonal models.

I urge everybody interested in The Old Ways to play Omega Boost with GOOD stereo (or maybe 2.1) setup. Like, really. If there was a game comparable to it, sound-wise, back in the day, it would be Thief or Kingpin with DirectSound 3D. Half-Life perhaps? Everybody talking shit about sound capabilities of PSX should play Omega Boost with decent stereo.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Yep, I used to play the USA region version of Omega Boost with a 2.1 surround sound system...the thundering bass made it worth all the while. The in-game wireframe intro was cool for it's time. Sony's in-house developer, Polyphony Digital, wanted to create a kick-ass PSX 60fps mecha game and they did succeed in pulling it off. Even the OB demo was stellar with some sample artwork to gloss over. The OB articulated action figures are ace too.

A couple of PSX game titles that used the multi-speaker Dolby Surround mode setup to great effect like with N2O and Alien Resurrection (provided that you hooked up the PSX to a good stereo amp with said optional Dolby Surround mode turned on). Makes me wonder if a TOSlink (or digital optical output) is possible with an PSX console...I do know that a plain vanilla GCN console is capable of outputting in digital optical mode with the proper mod for better sound effects with a multi-speaker/amp setup. The Panasonic Q console already has a built-in TOSlink output from the get-go.

The PCE CD-Romantic game of Snatcher uses the Roland Sound System (RSS) for showcasing three dimensional sound with just a two-speaker setup provided that the speakers are placed at a certain angle in order to pull it off properly. Even RSS sound distribution method was used with the Pioneer LaserActive gaming console with many of it's LD game titles.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[R-Gray 1]

My relation with Nintendo finished with the N64.

for me with N64 = bye nintendo and hello Sony.

But Nintendo is always going to be in my heart, Nintendo is my childhood and sometimes I still play some nes or snes games.

[xbl0x180]

My relation with Nintendo finished with the N64.

for me with N64 = bye nintendo and hello Sony.

But Nintendo is always going to be in my heart, Nintendo is my childhood and sometimes I still play some nes or snes games.

I agree the consoles are dead in the water, but what about their handhelds? The DS Lite is pretty rockin' and there are a few shoot-'em-ups for it. The system is also compatible with Game Boy Advance games, so that doubles your potential game library. I recently came into the acquisition of one and it's definitely worth 70 bucks

[Drum]

My relation with Nintendo finished with the N64.

for me with N64 = bye nintendo and hello Sony.

But Nintendo is always going to be in my heart, Nintendo is my childhood and sometimes I still play some nes or snes games.

I agree the consoles are dead in the water, but what about their handhelds? The DS Lite is pretty rockin' and there are a few shoot-'em-ups for it. The system is also compatible with Game Boy Advance games, so that doubles your potential game library. I recently came into the acquisition of one and it's definitely worth 70 bucks

GBA is one of the best things Nintendo ever did. I'd take that over the PS1 (though my experience with imports and obscurities for PS1 is pretty thin, so this might not be very fair).

[xbl0x180]

PSOne might've been great as a region-free console. They never brought Time Gal over to this region

[BulletMagnet]

for me with N64 = bye nintendo and hello Sony.

To a lesser extent this is how it worked for me. The first video games I played were on Nintendo systems so for most of my childhood I was a "Nintendo kid", but partway through the N64's life I got sick of waiting for more worthwhile games that never came and ended up with a PS1: from there I was not so much "console agnostic" as "console polytheist".

That said, I've hung onto almost every single system I've ever owned, and keep at least a small library for each of them...the one glaring exception, despite the handful of games I enjoyed on it, is the N64.

[BryanM]

The new Neo Geo X had me thinking about the upcoming generation of consoles again.

There's lots of talk about the diminishing returns of the next generation; hardware not really being the limiting factor anymore. That the insane budgets give us games that are smaller and more homogenized than they used to be.

Eventually it stands to reason that the market will be subsumed by handhelds. A hilarious number is that more 3DS's have been sold in Japan than PS3's. It's not just that it's mobile and doesn't eat batteries anymore and you can actually see the damn screen thanks to the backlight; it's the fuckin' games.

The DS is what the Nintendo 64 should have been. The 3d Final Fantasies we never got, the Sympathy of the Night clones... Dragon fuckin' Quest.

Which is better: the SNES or the N64? Easy question, right? How easy is it when the fight's the SNES vs. the DS?

[Ganelon]

For me, that's still an easy question. You have some of the best RPGs, ports of fighters, some of the best sidescrollers, and a healthy mix of shooters vs. some decent games and ports of excellent games in every genre but lacking in fighters and shooters. The DS may have the most impressive handheld library around (that or the PSP), and I agree that it beats the N64 (as well as the GCN and Wii) in terms of great games, but I don't see how it holds a candle to the SFC, which has among the best console libraries.

For hardware, there's a lot involved with the history and future of resolution, as well as the profitability of mobile games, and possibly new 3D technology that factor into how the industry will evolve. There are too many unknowns for me to make a call at this time so I'll skip surmising the fate of the game hardware industry.

[Domino]

Surprise: US/JP PS1 Game Library. Most people will overlook and don't fully study the game library on the PS1. I found so much hidden gems in the PS1 library that I lost count. The JP games are so full of hidden gems that you will have to go deep and buy them. The US library has good stuff in it that many people overlook. I'm glad some of the JP PS1 games are available on the PSN store because people have the chance to try out the really obscure titles.

If I had to pick just one console to buy nowadays it would be a modded PS1. It would take me a very long time to go through all the JP PS1 titles and even if I been doing it for years I would still find new JP PS1 titles to buy.