Xbox 360: Mushihimesama Futari 1.5 (November 2009)

[Erppo]

All you have demonstrated is that you can't get better if you don't want to.

[StarCreator]

I know I'm not really saying anything new, but this is starting to piss even me off.

He practically called Sapz and Icarus liars, and said everything he could to discredit their accomplishments

I did nothing of the sort.

I pointed out that assuming you can clear the game a high percentage of the time just because you have a high score or have played it a lot was probably misguided because (as much as people want to believe they are in total control) luck is still a massive factor in clearing this game on any single run.

The two are synonymous.

Basically, by saying the game is purely luck based, you are stating that everyone who clears the game is merely getting lucky, and not earning their clears by their own skill.

To take it even further: Cave is known to take months, sometimes years, balancing their game to make sure it is a challenging but completely fair experience. Their fanbase demands nothing less. By asserting that the game is pure luck, you are essentially stating that Cave as a company has failed in this basic design philosophy, which needless to say is incredibly insulting to them and anyone who is a fan of their work.

We should not need to spend 20 pages of this thread trying to beat some sense into you. You've been disproven, over and over. You've been given pages and pages of advice from people who have beaten the game. Admit that your failings are purely your own, then either get better or give up and stop blaming the universe for it.

[Bananamatic]

just wondering, what controller do you use?

[DrTrouserPlank]

I know I'm not really saying anything new, but this is starting to piss even me off.

He practically called Sapz and Icarus liars, and said everything he could to discredit their accomplishments

I did nothing of the sort.

I pointed out that assuming you can clear the game a high percentage of the time just because you have a high score or have played it a lot was probably misguided because (as much as people want to believe they are in total control) luck is still a massive factor in clearing this game on any single run.

The two are synonymous.

Basically, by saying the game is purely luck based, you are stating that everyone who clears the game is merely getting lucky, and not earning their clears by their own skill.

To take it even further: Cave is known to take months, sometimes years, balancing their game to make sure it is a challenging but completely fair experience. Their fanbase demands nothing less. By asserting that the game is pure luck, you are essentially stating that Cave as a company has failed in this basic design philosophy, which needless to say is incredibly insulting to them and anyone who is a fan of their work.

We should not need to spend 20 pages of this thread trying to beat some sense into you. You've been disproven, over and over. You've been given pages and pages of advice from people who have beaten the game. Admit that your failings are purely your own, then either get better or give up and stop blaming the universe for it.

I'm not saying that it's "completely luck based" of course you need to know what you are doing, but that alone will not guarantee you success all of the time.

I'm sorry if you can't accept that, but I'm fed up of defending this to people trying to pick it apart, so aside from this response I'll leave those who are irate to do their thing. If you or anyone else wants to believe that you can control everything about this game, then so be it.

It doesn't make a blind bit of difference anyway.

just wondering, what controller do you use?

D-pad, 360 controller.

Off to bed anyway.

[Erppo]

Could you please finally tell, how is it then possible that some people can clear the game pretty consistently.

[Bananamatic]

D-pad, 360 controller.

That's your problem.

I haven't played a shmup with that abomination yet but I fear that DFK will be unplayable with it.

Especially if you haven't bothered modding the dpad yet. It feels shitty even after sanding it down though.

[dunpeal2064]

oh, we are the ones having acceptance problems

[BIL]

This is a great example of what happens when you approach clearing a shooter as if it's an MMO grindfest. Some scrub was trying to argue the two were one and the same here, a few months back. Would've been nice to link this thread at the time.

[Drake]

The fact of the matter is, you have the word and experience of essentially everyone in this forum and beyond, against you. You couldn't possibly be "fed up of defending" your situation, because you aren't actually defending your situation. You're flatly saying "no" to everything presented to you. I'm sorry if you can't accept that you just suck and are refusing to allow yourself to get better, but people are telling you that you're wrong so you either stop playing altogether if you really think it's a waste of time, or stop being a stupid fuck and get better.

I can't pick up the game and clear it in a random five attempts, never mind scoring. Sapz likely can, as long as he doesn't attempt to score heavily. There's a difference here. You continuously dying at different parts throughout the game means, yes, you need to develop consistency. Consistency is a vital step in learning any game, and shmups are no exception. Stop being a tool and either play some more, or pack up and leave.

[Bananamatic]

This is a great example of what happens when you approach clearing a shooter as if it's an MMO grindfest. Some scrub was trying to argue the two were one and the same here, a few months back. Would've been nice to link this thread at the time.

except playing shmups with the 360 dpad is like grinding MMOs with a wii zapper

[Chaos Phoenixma]

All my 360 port 1ccs were with that thing's d-pad.

Yes, I 1cc'd

Black Label Original
1.5 Original
Deathsmiles and Deathsmiles MBL No Ex
ESPGaluda II's Black Label
Both 1.1s on Deathsmiles with Ex
Pink Sweets Arrange
Triggerheart Exelica
Strania's Normal Mode

and various other stuff with it.


Plus, IIRC, Sapz 411 million 1.5 Original and 1 billion BL Original were done with it.


Quit blaming the controller and blame yourself.

[Gus]

I also got 4.4bil in God on it. People who hate on it are idiots.

[Bananamatic]

I can't press the damn thing without it sliding around(mostly into diagonals)

just let us use a keyboard microsoft

[StarCreator]

Quit blaming the controller and blame yourself.

It was actually Bananamatic that complained about the controller.

My personal experience with the 360 d-pads is that they vary wildly from one another, way more than two products of the same make and model should. I've had 5 or 6 Xbox 360 wireless controllers pass through my hands (not including my beloved Silver) and all of them have d-pads that behave wildly different from one another.

[Chaos Phoenixma]

Plus, this is one of those games where you don't need as much consistency to 1cc, at least on Original. Like with the DDP 1-all, it's very much able to be bombspammed. Even DDP DOJ 1-all seems like it could be bombspammed with B-Shotia.


You have to practice a lot in order to get consistent though. I don't think it was until I started practicing Gradius III until I noticed myself starting to become more consistent overall. I still completely suck and don't have the consistency to put a good run together on any game, but then so do a lot of other people.


Ah, Gradius III and Gradius II: Gofer no Yabou. I should get back to both of those as I want to 1cc both of them sometime. Maybe I will, maybe I won't though. I had the first 3 stages of Gradius II figured out, and I had the first 8 of Gradius III figured out, though I only got to stage 6 on that. I'm not going to enjoy something if I don't have a chance of beating it sometime though, which is why I can't really get into Ultra or Pink Sweets 1.00. Even if I have the ability, I could hate something, such as UFO or Pink Sweets 1.01 and other stuff. I have no doubt I could 1cc PS 1.01 Normal course if I put in the effort, Extended being less likely, but stupid stage design in the last few stages just makes me not want to learn the game.


But maybe Cave isn't for you. Or try other games out to help your abilities.

[Icarus]

I managed to squeeze in five full attempts tonight while under the effects of lots of caffeine and sleep deprivation.
Currently 2/5 full ALL attempts done (40%), though a fumble on Larsa's third form on one credit, and a major fumble in st3 and st5 (ending on Larsa's first form) on another run put paid to a possible 4/5.
Photo of current replay list. I'll throw in another five credits tomorrow to round off the test.

On the subject of controllers, when I first received the game, I cleared the game twice with the X360 wireless controller, then moved to the wired SF4 Fightpad. I'm currently using a SF4 TE stick with a Seimitsu LS-32-01.

[Bananamatic]

On the subject of controllers, when I first received the game, I cleared the game twice with the X360 wireless controller, then moved to the wired SF4 Fightpad. I'm currently using a SF4 TE stick with a Seimitsu LS-32-01.

so in other words the 360 dpad is awful

[msm]

(not including my beloved Silver)

that a twisty d-pad one? and the d-pad is better than the old ones?

[NTSC-J]

Icarus, dont waste your time. You could beat this game on one try in front of a live studio audience holding two forms of goverment ID and a copy of today`s newspaper and he would still say the reason you cleared it was anything but skill.

DrTrouserPlank, (if you are indeed a true doctor), may I direct you to some of the fine RPGs or FPS` that are in great abundance and easily availabile in stores everywhere? They have save points and experience points and will be much more satisfying to you then games that require you to pay attention. You can die as many times as you like, and if you get stuck, a Prima guide will explain that you need to get the jade monkey before the next full moon.

No one agrees with what you say and everyone is offended. Whether you mean to or not, you`re implying that playing these games for high score or just a 1CC is a fruitless endeavor based on nothing but a roll of the dice, thereby negating the need for a hi-score forum or the STGT (curious how the same players end up in the top 10 each week).

If there were a nerdy version of Child Protection Services, your copies of Futari and Muchi Pork would be confiscated by the state and brought to loving homes who know how to take care of them.

[StarCreator]

(not including my beloved Silver)

that a twisty d-pad one? and the d-pad is better than the old ones?

Yeah, Silvers are the twisty kind. They have the same issues with variance (I've tried another Silver and it doesn't behave exactly like mine) but the "transform" to sink the corners in helps a lot in getting precise directions in without accidentally making a corner fire instead.

[Casper<3]

Funny thing is, the more you play a shmup, the less about luck it is. If the bullets react the same way every time you play, it's not about luck at all, it's about being right where you need to be when you need to be and pressing the right buttons when you need to.

[Chaos Phoenixma]

Yeah, there's very little in the way of randomness in this game, and it's not in Original mode as I've said before. The main one I can think of is the final attack in Ultra and God Mode TLBs on which way the streaming part goes on Ultra or which way it spins in God, and even then, that's 50% chance and has little to no effect.



Just look at most Yagawa games or Raizing for bad randomness. All the random stuff in Pink Sweets didn't help my opinion of that game. Stage 6 is pretty much what made me quit the game, but there's so much randomness in the later bosses. The first 4 bosses are static or not heavily affected by randomness. But randomness in attack or movement patterns seriously screws with both survival and scoring on the stage 4 second midboss, stage 5 boss, stage 6 second midboss, maybe the third stage 6 midboss, that stupid Lightning attack which can have a nice effect on score if it turns a lot or screws you over, stage 7 midboss, stage 7 TLB, etc. Just so much stuff that can screw over your run through no fault of your own because you can't be prepared for absolutely everything.


Even Garegga and APB bosses have heavy randomness, and those games have some extremely stupid rank in them that makes them not fun.

Dimahoo also has randomly selected boss attack orders which can seriously screw up your day. I still have no idea how Bananamatic failed to 1cc that, mainly due to me not being familiar with the bosses. With 2 spare lives, shouldn't he have been able to completely bombspam Gigafacer?


UFO Lunatic took me way more tries than it should have for me to 1cc due to overly random attacks screwing over my runs. Attacks that could vary from pretty much autocapture(which pretty much never happened for me), to easy(almost never happened), to ridiculously hard(usual), or just impossible(usual)



I would gladly take a game where luck does not affect my survival chances. And anything random should be same difficulty every time. Thankfully most randomness I've seen hasn't been too bad, but some games are just terrible about it. Yet, I still have some games I want to try to 1cc despite extremely stupid random things; The one I'm referring to here, I cleared the first loop with savestates, and I've only done up to stage 6 without them, but I am not looking forward to Stage 9's Cube Rush.

[Gus]

I've noticed lots of randomness in the ways certain attacks come at you in Ultra/God. Nowhere near as bad as the Pink Sweets stuff but it's definitely there and catches me off guard a lot.

[Chaos Phoenixma]

Reminds me that the stage 1 boss is pretty annoying on God depending on which of the 2 flame attacks it chooses. 1 of the 2 usually causes a restart for me.

[sikraiken]

My scores are pure luck!

**Magic**

[Sumez]

You collect a gem as it's green by collecting the gem within a certain time of it spawning - I don't have any exact numbers but I'd say something like 40-60 frames. How close you were to the enemy isn't the important thing here, but of course it'll help since you're so close to the gems to start with and can collect them quickly.

That's how I thought it was as well, but skimming the ST thread on this forum says something about more green gems spawning when you point blank the enemies as well as the obvious advantage in staying close to the enemy when it dies. So which is the truth?

[msm]

Yeah, Silvers are the twisty kind. They have the same issues with variance (I've tried another Silver and it doesn't behave exactly like mine) but the "transform" to sink the corners in helps a lot in getting precise directions in without accidentally making a corner fire instead.

cheers!

[cools]

Just look at most Yagawa games or Raizing for bad randomness.

The top #25 says otherwise.

[JOW]

Hope this helps.

Thanks, it certainly does

In direct answer to your question of NOT playing for score, I've read on this forum somewhere that some players deliberately keep the counter low during the first 3 levels - hence keeping the rank down and giving them a cheesey 1CC. Disgraceful behaviour

Well to be honest, that doesn't sound like such a bad idea, if you're having a hard time with the game at high rank.
(cheap/cheesy yeah, but the game is deliberately designed this way)

...which is fair enough. This was meant a little tongue in cheek as the last time I made suggestions related to easier 1CCs I got flamed for making 'idiotic' comments and how 'casuals like me' should stop making such suggestions

[Bananamatic]

Dimahoo also has randomly selected boss attack orders which can seriously screw up your day. I still have no idea how Bananamatic failed to 1cc that, mainly due to me not being familiar with the bosses. With 2 spare lives, shouldn't he have been able to completely bombspam Gigafacer?

You need 4-6 bombs to take him out while still having to dodge most attacks he has.