The future of Cave

[Gus]

Yes I can hear the Cave defense force revving up it's engines right now, but let's face it, those games were not worth their price.

Nobody thinks they are.
Cave seems to forget that not every Cave fan is an obsessed collector. The majority of them just want to play good games. Personally I don't care if they release them as arcade boards as long as I can play them on my X360.

But $2000 is a lot of money. Think about it. Even if 30 fucking casuals bought a port for $60 that would still be less money than just 1 real fan paying 2k for the PCB.

[BiQ]

Does anyone actually have any idea how much manufacturing a PCB costs? (I don't.)

...on the other hand, as we don't (or do we?) have any clue what kind of contract Microsoft puts forward for the XBOX360 titles, all of this "which is more profitable and what isn't" is all up in the air.

[Sumez]

But $2000 is a lot of money. Think about it. Even if 30 fucking casuals bought a port for $60 that would still be less money than just 1 real fan paying 2k for the PCB.

Well, X360 games are a lot easier to produce once the game is programmed.
I don't think it's unlikely for 17,000 people to buy a Cave release on X360 anyway. DeathSmiles sold a lot more than that in Japan alone, even if most people don't consider the sales impressive.

[Mero]

we will continue to develop arcade games since I believe that putting games out at Japanese game centers is an extremely effective marketing tool for CAVE’s shooters.

This is the most important thing that's been posted in the thread

[bcass]

Even if 30 fucking casuals bought a port for $60 that would still be less money than just 1 real fan paying 2k for the PCB.

So some dumb ass shelling out $2000+ on a PCB is suddenly more of a fan than everyone else? That's some odd logic you've got there.

[Casey120]

I think the amount of " dumb asses " buying brand new pcb games at full price for home use is very , very small

[sven666]

I think the amount of " dumb asses " buying brand new pcb games at full price for home use is very , very small

true, and theyre certainly outnumbered by the number of "dumb-asses" making posts and rash judgements on this board

[bcass]

true, and theyre certainly outnumbered by the number of "dumb-asses" making posts and rash judgements on this board

I guess you must be one of those in the "rash" camp, given your total inability to grasp basic grammar.

Of course, it goes without saying, if your comment wasn't aimed at me, then feel free to pay more attention to the smiley at the end of the post rather than the actual post content.

[SuperPang]

not many players are willing to risk paying $2000 on an arcade game only to find out it's another Deathsmiles II or Akai Katana.

What, you mean one of Cave's best games and soon to be scarce?

[Casey120]

Akai Katana PCB

If only I was rich enough .......




I'd would be that ... !

[Gus]

Even if 30 fucking casuals bought a port for $60 that would still be less money than just 1 real fan paying 2k for the PCB.

So some dumb ass shelling out $2000+ on a PCB is suddenly more of a fan than everyone else? That's some odd logic you've got there.

How is this even a question? Yes, people who shell out the big bucks and help keep the soul of the company alive are bigger fans than people who buy some port and never make it out of stage 3.

[FMK]

From Cave's Facebook:

About Console and Arcade development
by CAVE on Monday, August 22, 2011 at 10:44pm

There were a couple points related to console and arcade development that didn't make it into the latest mobile-focused interview with our COO. You can read them right here! Mr. Watanabe also wrote a brief note to CAVE's international fans at the end.

"■Xbox 360 Business (Overseas)

We’ve published Deathsmiles internationally with American and European publishers and I think we will continue to put them out in consultation with these partners. Also, at this August’s stock holder meeting, we’ll be officially changing our English name to “CAVE Interactive Co., Ltd.” For people in the English-speaking world, we sometimes get asked “CAVE? Is that a cliff-diving spot or something?”, so we decided to make it easier to understand. We are going to keep putting out games overseas strategically. We’ll keep growing our social game projects, but at the same time work on getting our games to core fans more than before.

・The Domestic Market

Unfortunately the size of the Xbox 360 Japanese domestic market is about 30% of the PS3 market and hardcore games are only selling about 20 to 30,000 copies. Still, there is a solid fanbase for shooters and adventure games, and we will continue to support the system.

・Arcade Games (Domestic)

It's disappointing, but arcade games already do not make sense from a business perspective.

However, we will continue to develop arcade games since I believe that putting games out at Japanese game centers is an extremely effective marketing tool for CAVE’s shooters.

To all our overseas arcade game fans.

Consider picking up our future arcade boards via mail order!

If we sell 500 copies, we can make a new arcade shooter.

Also, a request for our international fans.

We've translated the CAVE homepage into English.

We're also supporting our international fanbase via twitter, Ustream and facebook. Please give us your comments. Our English-speaking staff read what you write and pass that on to the creators here."

[bcass]

Yes, people who shell out the big bucks and help keep the soul of the company alive are bigger fans than people who buy some port and never make it out of stage 3.

What a load of elitist horseshit. People like you are a disgrace to the genre and help make sure it sticks firmly in the past.

[Bananamatic]

us poor students will never be true shmup fans

[Casey120]

us poor students will never be true shmup fans

It probably saves you from being a Dumb-Ass though


On topic :

If CAVE uses the Arcade's as a (almost) non profit way to advertise their newest games for other platforms that would be awesome !

[Udderdude]

If CAVE uses the Arcade's as a (almost) non profit way to advertise their newest games for other platforms that would be awesome !

That's kind of sad too, as it implies they know their games aren't making money in arcades anymore, but put them there anyway because there's still some ridiculous idea that just because a game was in an arcade at some point, it can't possibly suck. :/

[Gus]

If CAVE uses the Arcade's as a (almost) non profit way to advertise their newest games for other platforms that would be awesome !

That's kind of sad too, as it implies they know their games aren't making money in arcades anymore, but put them there anyway because there's still some ridiculous idea that just because a game was in an arcade at some point, it can't possibly suck. :/

http://insomnia.ac/commentary/arcade_culture/

That's actually pretty true. Putting games in arcades also lets them hear from the players and weed out bugs so they can make better games. Such a shame people get called dumb asses and elitists here if they want to help support them in that.

[RNGmaster]

That's actually pretty true.

Noooooooooo, don't say thaaaaaaaat.

icycalm got banned for a reason. We don't need anyone here to take inspiration from his insane, hostile ranting.

[Weak Boson]

It's heartening to hear that they're going to keep making arcade shooters but it sounds like it's going to be increasingly difficult to do so. A console exclusive shooter seems less appealing somehow. Hopefully their games will start to see more success in the west.

[Udderdude]

Putting games in arcades also lets them hear from the players and weed out bugs so they can make better games.

Arcades are the LAST place you want that happening. Doing a free PCB recall and upgrade is not exactly cheap and is a pain in the ass for everyone involved.

[bcass]

Indeed.

Putting games in arcades also lets them hear from the players and weed out bugs so they can make better games.

Those aspects are not unique to arcades, so your point is void. Bugs and other suggestions (for any release, not just PCBs) can be sent via Twitter & Facebook with fixes coming via patches.

[Deca]

What a load of elitist horseshit. People like you are a disgrace to the genre and help make sure it sticks firmly in the past.

So you honestly believe that people willing to pay thousands of dollars to play games you consider inaccessible until they're ported or emulated aren't more committed than you are? It sounds like you're getting excessively defensive here just because someone brought your dedication to the genre into question, he certainly didn't come off as hostile or insult you in any way.

I have no problem admitting that someone who's grabbing new PCBs as they're released and has 1CCs on most or all of the games they own is more committed than me. People who spend every spare cent they have building cars are more committed to cars than I am, it doesn't make me enjoy cars any less or hold the community back in any way.

That's actually pretty true.

Noooooooooo, don't say thaaaaaaaat.

icycalm got banned for a reason. We don't need anyone here to take inspiration from his insane, hostile ranting.

Just because he's pretty much insane and doesn't understand how to write anything in a professional or credible manner doesn't mean he doesn't make a LOT of good points in most of the things he writes. He's a really easy person to hate, and well deservedly, but it pisses me off to see people completely discount his opinions just because he's a huge prick.

[Udderdude]

Noooooooooo, don't say thaaaaaaaat.

icycalm got banned for a reason. We don't need anyone here to take inspiration from his insane, hostile ranting.

Just because he's pretty much insane and doesn't understand how to write anything in a professional or credible manner doesn't mean he doesn't make a LOT of good points in most of the things he writes. He's a really easy person to hate, and well deservedly, but it pisses me off to see people completely discount his opinions just because he's a huge prick.

Trying to pick the good points out of his work while removing the crazy/bile/egomania is near impossible, you're really better off just starting again from scratch.

[emphatic]

My 2 cents:

The reason why their shmups are so good is because they're made for the arcades. Hardware limitations, difficulty settings etc, everything reflects the arcade setting, and that's at least why I love them. The best arrange modes could very well be true arcade games, just look at Mushihimesama Futari Arrange mode, that wouldn't be very popular in the arcades. If CAVE stops making their shmups for the arcades, their games will suffer greatly and hopefully they themselves know this as well.

[bcass]

What a load of elitist horseshit. People like you are a disgrace to the genre and help make sure it sticks firmly in the past.

So you honestly believe that people willing to pay thousands of dollars to play games you consider inaccessible until they're ported or emulated aren't more committed than you are?

Please read what he wrote, and what I replied to. Seriously, it's so fucking annoying when people go off on a tangent that has absolutely nothing to do with what was said. I'll give you a clue - at no point did either of us use the word "committed".

I have no problem admitting that someone who's grabbing new PCBs as they're released and has 1CCs on most or all of the games they own is more committed than me.

The acts of being able to complete Cave games and owning the PCBs are not mutually exclusive.

[DMC]

What's interesting to me is to see what happens with the genre more broadly. Now that the main audience is not arcade but console players, the conditions are different. Longer games, more stages, more forgiving gameplay such as life bars, easier, save locations, unlockables, more achievement oriented etc. When will Cave make a pure euroshmup?

[emphatic]

When will Cave make a pure euroshmup?

I was fine about the whole "quitting arcade games" rumor, but now I'm quite scared.

[DMC]

When will Cave make a pure euroshmup?

I was fine about the whole "quitting arcade games" rumor, but now I'm quite scared.

Ikeda, or whoever is in charge, sacks Yagawa and Ichimura, and gives the job to the programmer of Tyrian!

[TrevHead (TVR)]

My 2 cents:

The reason why their shmups are so good is because they're made for the arcades. Hardware limitations, difficulty settings etc, everything reflects the arcade setting, and that's at least why I love them. The best arrange modes could very well be true arcade games, just look at Mushihimesama Futari Arrange mode, that wouldn't be very popular in the arcades. If CAVE stops making their shmups for the arcades, their games will suffer greatly and hopefully they themselves know this as well.

+1 Most of us love CAVEs shmups on the 360 because they give us that arcade feel, if CAVE were to abandon arcade and develop primary for console this would probably erode away no matter how good CAVEs intentions are.

Would CAVE be able to keep all the superplayers who playtest interested if they abandoned the arcade?

[Deca]

Please read what he wrote, and what I replied to. Seriously, it's so fucking annoying when people go off on a tangent that has absolutely nothing to do with what was said. I'll give you a clue - at no point did either of us use the word "committed".

I read your exchange. Saying someone is a "bigger fan" is just as vague as statement as saying they're "more committed." Either way, someone willing to spend a much larger chunk of their income on something than you cares about it more than you do.

The acts of being able to complete Cave games and owning the PCBs are not mutually exclusive.

When did I ever say that they were? I brought up two separate points to address both points he presented in his statement.

people who buy some port and never make it out of stage 3

He specifically addressed people buying ports as well as people playing the games seriously enough to (presumably) complete them, or at least come close to it.

What you're doing here is trying to pick apart my reply with semantics. You're simultaneously complaining about people going off on unrelated tangents and doing just that in the same post.