Xbox 360: Mushihimesama Futari 1.5 (November 2009)

[Sumez]

I know, that's why I corrected my post

[DrTrouserPlank]

I reached Larsa more than once I think, but that was never the point because reaching her and clearing the game are about as far apart as clearing stage 1 and clearing the game.

If there are 6 lives available in the game, I would need most of them to reach her. At an optomistic estimate I would need at least 9 lives + lots of bombs to clear the game from start to finish. I've practiced Larsa plenty and I just consider it (at best) a mandatory 2-3 life penalty that you have to accept and factor into the game. Based on that you need to lose no more than 3 lives during stages 1-5 excluding Larsa. That's a tall ask, and is beyond purely your control.

I also think that peoples' predictions of what their success rates would be when just trying to clear the game are very bullish as well. Seeing as there doesn't appear to be any real data on this, my impression is that people got their clear and then ran the hell away before the game got another chance to beat them.

I'd play something else but I don't see what it will achieve. I hope my J360 arrives next week so I've got more games to play.

[Erppo]

That's a tall ask, and is beyond purely your control.

No, that's beyond YOUR control until you get better.

I also think that peoples' predictions of what their success rates would be when just trying to clear the game are very bullish as well. My impression is that people got their clear and then ran the hell away before the game got another chance to beat them.

So now you're calling me and a couple other people liars? How does me clearing the game multiple times in a row fit this nice little assumption?

[Sapz]

Just for you, I will play one run right now and inform you of the results.

Don't give up with it, man. As much as I think your complaining at the game is wrong, you're making good progress especially if you didn't have much prior shmup experience.

[DrTrouserPlank]

That's a tall ask, and is beyond purely your control.

No, that's beyond YOUR control until you get better.

I also think that peoples' predictions of what their success rates would be when just trying to clear the game are very bullish as well. My impression is that people got their clear and then ran the hell away before the game got another chance to beat them.

So now you're calling me and a couple other people liars? How does me clearing the game multiple times in a row fit this nice little assumption?

Not at all; but the last thing you wrote on the subject was,

I would also be willing to bet that I can clear the game on my first try right now by ignoring all risks for score and stuff.

and once again the use of the phrase "I would also be willing to bet" makes it sound more like conjecture rather than what has actually happened. If you have since gone away and cleared it umpteen times in a row then it's a different matter.

[Erppo]

Not at all; but the last thing you wrote on the subject was,

I would also be willing to bet that I can clear the game on my first try right now by ignoring all risks for score and stuff.

and once again the use of the phrase "I would also be willing to bet" makes it sound more like conjecture rather than what has actually happened. If you have since gone away and cleared it umpteen times in a row then it's a different matter.

I haven't played the game in a while yes, but I have put little bit of work into Original scoring previously and during that time I think I have cleared the game around 20 times. Most of these clears were really close to each other. Sapz up there has played the game WAY more than I have and you should at least listen to him in this matter.

EDIT: 20 might be a bit too many now that I think about it. Let's say 15 instead.

[Sapz]

Just for you, I will play one run right now and inform you of the results.

Stage 1 - 0M0B.
Stage 2 - 0M0B.
Stage 3 - 1M0B. The miss here was mistiming the midboss kill and essentially ramming its final pattern.
Stage 4 - 1M2B. The miss here was missing one of the large mosquitoes and getting shot sideways at close range since I forgot they kept firing near the bottom of the screen. Both bombs were on the boss for safety reasons.
Stage 5 stage portion - 0M3B. Safety reasons; one was for safe collection of the 1up, and the last two were for the final stretch.
Larsa - 2M3B. The first phase was done 0D0B. The second phase had a death and then a bomb on the second attack (1M1B here). The third phase had a death on the first attack because I thought I could wing it, and then I bombspammed the rest of the health bar to the tune of two bombs (1M2B here).

Total - 4M8B. Final score - 245m. I have not played this mode in about three months, so I was a little rusty, and generally played quite conservatively here. It's scrappy, but here's your clear.

[sikraiken]

DrTrouserPlank, you're talking about Original mode. You act like you're playing Ultra and the game dynamics change each time or something (yet, they don't). Keep playing more and just get better.

Stop being a noob.

[RNGmaster]

I'd play something else but I don't see what it will achieve. I hope my J360 arrives next week so I've got more games to play.

Futari Original is an easy clear. Once you get the new games, you're just going to complain about those.

At this point, either build dodging skills (e.g play on a higher difficulty level) or play a different game.

[JOW]

Futari Original is an easy clear.

I disagree.

It may be one of CAVE's easier clears (compared to Galuda II, DDP-DOJ, Guwange etc) but it's quite a step up from the following (easiest first IMHO):

• Deathsmiles (no EX)
• Deathsmiles Mega Black Label (no EX)
• DDP-DFK 1.5 (Strong)
• Futari Black Label Original

I have absolutely no doubt that if the Dr had put in as much time into any of the above as he has put into 1.5 Original he would have at least one clear by now.

Predictions:

• Trouser Plank will say he's tried MFBL and that it doesn't appear any easier. Take it from me it is far, far easier and I am utterly sure that no one will disagree with me on that.
• Trouser Plank will say, "Deathsmiles has no practice mode for bosses and therefore impossible to clear", before crying in his beer .
  Well, this doesn't matter because the bosses are all easy with the exception of some of Tyrannosatan's patterns - and that doesn't matter because you are gifted 6 bombs after the Jitterbug fight (as long as you don't bomb him). So, Tyrannosatan can just be nuked

So, my suggestion is play some of CAVE's easier games (easier that MF 1.5 Original that is) and your skills will improve with less pain. Return to get your revenge on MF 1.5 later

[RNGmaster]

[*]Trouser Plank will say, "Deathsmiles has no practice mode for bosses and therefore impossible to clear", before crying in his beer .
Well, this doesn't matter because the bosses are all easy with the exception of some of Tyrannosatan's patterns - and that doesn't matter because you are gifted 6 bombs after the Jitterbug fight (as long as you don't bomb him). So, Tyrannosatan can just be nuked [/list]

Actually, you're correct on that.

[Illyrian]

I think Deathsmiles is a good place to start in general if you're new to shmups, the variable difficulty levels, different play styles for different characters etc. make it, in my opinion the best possible choice for a new xbox player.

Also it being only £18 is a big help imo.

[dunpeal2064]

Deathsmiles is where I started, and it didn't really polish my skills. Once I started working on Futari is when I noticed myself getting better at all of my shmups

It just doesn't prepare you to manipulate bullet patterns very well, as there are a lot less aimed shots (at least in rank 1&2)

different folks, different strokes I suppose

[JOW]

Deathsmiles is where I started, and it didn't really polish my skills. Once I started working on Futari is when I noticed myself getting better at all of my shmups

It just doesn't prepare you to manipulate bullet patterns very well, as there are a lot less aimed shots (at least in rank 1&2)

Exactly the same for me and I totally agree about the bullet patterns too. However, I think Deathsmiles is a great game that's worth playing in its own right even if it doesn't train your skills as much as other games do.

I think Deathsmiles is a good place to start in general if you're new to shmups, the variable difficulty levels, different play styles for different characters etc. make it, in my opinion the best possible choice for a new xbox player.

Also it being only £18 is a big help imo.

I also agree with this. I have recommended Deathsmiles to a number of friends and many have bought it and are still playing and enjoying it. I think MF 1.5 would be too much for them though

[Gus]

Futari Original is an easy clear.

I disagree.

It may be one of CAVE's easier clears (compared to Galuda II, DDP-DOJ, Guwange etc) but it's quite a step up from the following (easiest first IMHO):

• Deathsmiles (no EX)
• Deathsmiles Mega Black Label (no EX)
• DDP-DFK 1.5 (Strong)
• Futari Black Label Original

I have absolutely no doubt that if the Dr had put in as much time into any of the above as he has put into 1.5 Original he would have at least one clear by now.

Predictions:

• Trouser Plank will say he's tried MFBL and that it doesn't appear any easier. Take it from me it is far, far easier and I am utterly sure that no one will disagree with me on that.
• Trouser Plank will say, "Deathsmiles has no practice mode for bosses and therefore impossible to clear", before crying in his beer .
  Well, this doesn't matter because the bosses are all easy with the exception of some of Tyrannosatan's patterns - and that doesn't matter because you are gifted 6 bombs after the Jitterbug fight (as long as you don't bomb him). So, Tyrannosatan can just be nuked

So, my suggestion is play some of CAVE's easier games (easier that MF 1.5 Original that is) and your skills will improve with less pain. Return to get your revenge on MF 1.5 later

This is idiotic. Those games aren't easier. Try pulling off some recharges in Deathsmiles and telling me that's easier. Or getting to DFK's 2nd loop and telling me that's easier. Or scoring 1 billion in BL Original and telling me that's easier. What they are is they're games that offer casuals like you who only care about seeing the ending the option of making it easier and feeling a taste of what it's like to actually clear a game. But no, playing those games isn't going to help improve his actual skill. They will help pad his ego and teach him the wrong habits (taking shortcuts, ignoring intricate scoring mechanisms), however. If it's gotten to the point where he's getting worse and it feels like work, then yes his best option is to play something harder with a more enjoyable (IMO) scoring system like say, one of the Maniacs or God.

[ncp]

This is idiotic. Those games aren't easier. Try pulling off some recharges in Deathsmiles and telling me that's easier. Or getting to DFK's 2nd loop and telling me that's easier. Or scoring 1 billion in BL Original and telling me that's easier.

He was clearly talking about difficulty of clearing the game. Why you mad?

[Gus]

For the reasons I stated later in my post. Clearing easy games isn't going to improve your skill and really when you took every shortcut possible and ignored the scoring system completely can you even call that a real clear?

[Sapz]

when you took every shortcut possible and ignored the scoring system completely can you even call that a real clear?

Sure, I'd say so, a clear is a clear and if the game is hard for you it's an accomplishment regardless of what 'shortcuts' you took. In a well designed game like Futari, these shortcuts are here to distinguish a first time skin-of-your-teeth clear and a really masterful scoring clear. I understand wanting to play exclusively for score, but a basic clear is a pretty important stepping stone to that goal (or even the goal itself) for a lot of people.

Personally, while there are exceptions, I'll often aim for a clear with only light scoring when starting out with a game - it stops 'getting the 1cc' weighing on my mind and helps me to learn the stages, as well as deciding if I want to take the game any further.

[Casper<3]

It may be one of CAVE's easier clears (compared to Galuda II, DDP-DOJ, Guwange etc) but it's quite a step up from the following (easiest first IMHO):

• Deathsmiles (no EX)
• Deathsmiles Mega Black Label (no EX)
• DDP-DFK 1.5 (Strong)
• Futari Black Label Original

I have to disagree with this.

I've 1cc'd both MF1.5 and MFBL Original modes (the later with probably less than 10 tries)

However I've yet to 1CC the first loop of DFK (I've been playing about 8 months and still play)
I can only beat DS Level 1 with Rosa. I've yet to be able to do it with any one else and to be honest I hate to try because I find DS Level 1 as boring as can be.

[Skykid]

Can everyone stop playing Mushi Futari 1.5 now and go play something else.

Thanks.

[NTSC-J]

Just for you, I will play one run right now and inform you of the results.

Stage 1 - 0M0B.
Stage 2 - 0M0B.
Stage 3 - 1M0B. The miss here was mistiming the midboss kill and essentially ramming its final pattern.
Stage 4 - 1M2B. The miss here was missing one of the large mosquitoes and getting shot sideways at close range since I forgot they kept firing near the bottom of the screen. Both bombs were on the boss for safety reasons.
Stage 5 stage portion - 0M3B. Safety reasons; one was for safe collection of the 1up, and the last two were for the final stretch.
Larsa - 2M3B. The first phase was done 0D0B. The second phase had a death and then a bomb on the second attack (1M1B here). The third phase had a death on the first attack because I thought I could wing it, and then I bombspammed the rest of the health bar to the tune of two bombs (1M2B here).

Total - 4M8B. Final score - 245m. I have not played this mode in about three months, so I was a little rusty, and generally played quite conservatively here. It's scrappy, but here's your clear.

No, I'm sorry, I'm very sorry, but that was luck.

For it is...BEYOND PURELY YOUR CONTROL.

[Sapz]

Please don't ruin my illusions of knowing how to slowly tap from side to side. ;_;

[JOW]

This is idiotic. Those games aren't easier. Try pulling off some recharges in Deathsmiles and telling me that's easier. Or getting to DFK's 2nd loop and telling me that's easier. Or scoring 1 billion in BL Original and telling me that's easier. What they are is they're games that offer casuals like you who only care about seeing the ending the option of making it easier and feeling a taste of what it's like to actually clear a game. But no, playing those games isn't going to help improve his actual skill. They will help pad his ego and teach him the wrong habits (taking shortcuts, ignoring intricate scoring mechanisms), however. If it's gotten to the point where he's getting worse and it feels like work, then yes his best option is to play something harder with a more enjoyable (IMO) scoring system like say, one of the Maniacs or God.

I agree that going for these 'cheesy' clears will not improve skill as much as scoring well or going for non-trivial clears but that is not the context I was making my comments in.

There's a guy here (DTP) busting a gut trying to clear MF 1.5 and all I suggested was there a easier short term goals available him that will allow him to build his skill incrementally. Some people actually place a higher importance on clearing a game than scoring it so that is why I was suggesting easier clears not easier games in this case.

Personally, I always play for score as I prefer to master a game to the best of my ability - the clears come as a matter of course.

I basically agree with much of your argument - shame you phrased it in such a cuntish way

[JOW]

It may be one of CAVE's easier clears (compared to Galuda II, DDP-DOJ, Guwange etc) but it's quite a step up from the following (easiest first IMHO):

• Deathsmiles (no EX)
• Deathsmiles Mega Black Label (no EX)
• DDP-DFK 1.5 (Strong)
• Futari Black Label Original

I have to disagree with this.

I've 1cc'd both MF1.5 and MFBL Original modes (the later with probably less than 10 tries)

However I've yet to 1CC the first loop of DFK (I've been playing about 8 months and still play)
I can only beat DS Level 1 with Rosa. I've yet to be able to do it with any one else and to be honest I hate to try because I find DS Level 1 as boring as can be.

Horses for courses I suppose . But it sounds like you agree that MFBL Original is an easier clear than 1.5.

I'm really surprised you find DDP-DFK (Strong) harder to clear than MF 1.5 Original though - your experience is almost the complete opposite to me. I've been playing MF 1.5 Original for a couple of months now and, while I'm making healthy improvements, I've never had a clear.

[Casper<3]

^^^funny thing is after reading this I had about 45 minutes to kill before going somewhere so I put DFK in and what do you know, I got the 1CC. It wasn't even a barely made it through type of 1CC either.

Next I'm taking down bomb mode on DFK BL.

[drunkninja24]

Alright, finally got the 1CC in 1.5 Original with Abnormal Palm!

Got the replay here as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rs62gXk0NyE

Ahhhh yeah.

[moozooh]

Do you feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?

Nice job getting a first clear with two spare lives! Now work on that scoring. :)

[JOW]

^^^funny thing is after reading this I had about 45 minutes to kill before going somewhere so I put DFK in and what do you know, I got the 1CC. It wasn't even a barely made it through type of 1CC either.

Nice one

No such luck for me with Futari. But I am gradually honing in my first goal - getting my name onto the Futari Original shmups hi-score table

There are some truly epic scores on there and as only the top 20 are listed it's quite a challenge to even get a place.

[DrTrouserPlank]

Just going off to play this game again.

Brace yourself for incoming rage.

[Annoyboy]

Dr Trouserplank, are you playing 1.5 or Black Label? I've 1CCd Black Label Original 3 or 4 times now, but I can hardly ever get to stage 5 on 1.5.

I guess I'll clarify.

Concerning 1.5 Original, it's pointless "to 1cc" and not "to play for store", after having 1cc'd the first time.

I disagree. I think you need to be able to comfortably 1CC the game on most attempts before trying to play for score. Playing for score feels like a waste of time to me if I know I'm not going to be able to clear the game.