The future of Cave

[TrevHead (TVR)]

If what happened to RayStorm HD, was Sony's fault...then i'm glad CAVE went 360.

I wouldnt be surprised, just look at Mamaru-kun PS3, although ive no idea if the vertizonal PS3 version plays better than the 4:3 original as some vertizontals like Mars Matrix are made all the better for been vertizontal, however that game was designed from the ground up to be vertizontal and not like many old console ports.

[Sumez]

I don't get why people have a problem with all these games being released for X360.

Sure, Cave and Mistwalker MIGHT have sold better on PS3, but there's no real way to tell this. I'm sure Cave's fans in Japans bought an X360 to play there games, just like people here in the west actually importing Japanese console to play them! As for Mistwalker, I'm sure they got their share of Microsoft money to not worry about that.

And what did we get? Great games for the X360! So what exactly is the problem?

[kernow]

I don't get why people have a problem with all these games being released for X360.

Sure, Cave and Mistwalker MIGHT have sold better on PS3, but there's no real way to tell this. I'm sure Cave's fans in Japans bought an X360 to play there games, just like people here in the west actually importing Japanese console to play them! As for Mistwalker, I'm sure they got their share of Microsoft money to not worry about that.

And what did we get? Great games for the X360! So what exactly is the problem?

There is the problem

[Skykid]

I think Cave are pretty much finished folks, at least as the company we knew. No more dedicated arcade dev, selling of shares, focussing on phone dev.

I'm sure that the talent they have on board (IKD, YGW etc) will be put to good use doing something, so we will see an original console shmup now and then - but it's not where the money is.

C'est la vie, Cave, thanks for everything.

[Elixir]

No longer do the veteran Cave collectors have land to roam on, it's been tarnished by popularity of the years; crawling, like fungus across an abandoned house. They've sold out, catering to society, cashing in on popularity and profiting from their recent popularity boost within recent years. I'm hipster as fuck.

[Jockel]

[Bananamatic]

elixir's presence makes everything funnier

[Skykid]

elixir's presence makes everything funnier

In a kind of pointing at a retarded monkey in a zoo kind of fashion.

[Last_Dancer]

And what did we get? Great games for the X360! So what exactly is the problem?

Why limit yourself to the console with the lowest userbase? Look at this:

http://www.next-gen.biz/news/xbox-360-dead-japan

Selling games is really difficult when no retail store is stocking those games.

Cave & Co. are now stuck on the dead 360 with 0% Growth, look at Akai Katana Shin's low sales, and Plan B aka switch to PS3 is impossible because of lack of skills after ignoring the PS3 for ~5 years, and next Gen is still 1~3 years away.

The only choice left was switching to smartphones, or do you really think Cave announces DDP Collection, Mushihime Collection or Cave Shooting Collection Vol.1 Ibara & Ibara Kuro, or Cave Shooting Collection Vol. 2 Progear & ESP RA.DE. @ TGS 2011

The same goes for G.Rev; G.Rev, almost bancrupt because of the Xbox360, now wants to develop games for other companys, but thats somewhat difficult, because G.Rev only knows the 360 architecture, and not PS3/PSP/DS etc

BTW, anyone still got this stupid picture from last years TGS with all those Cave-people posing on the Xbox360 stand with crossed arms, celebrating the now officially dead japanese Xbox360?

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Personally I think the Wii might of been a better choice than the 360 given the system had its 2D retrogamer niche although from what ive heard its online features were diabolical. The PS3 though was a no go area for shmups even though things might be slightly better today. Doe anyone have an idea how well Wii STG sold?

To put it shortly none of the platforms this gen were good homes for shmups, although the 360 is imo the best of a bad bunch from a gamers perspective, with XBLA, leaderboards and high def. Even those I wish more shmups were on PC, even that isnt the perfect choice atleast from a competative standpoint, as it makes it easy to cheat. With ppl using old PCs or crappy graphics cards its easy to over tax the hardware and run the game in slow-mo. For example all those Jamestown "Superplay" vids with the game running at 50% speed due to the capture software. IF CAVE were to port their games to PC imo they would have to run some anticheat mechanism so that only those running the game at full speed could post scores.

While the 360 might have been good for CAVE it isnt so for other shmup devs especially atm. While im enjoying seeing all the new games on the 360 there is imo too many new shmups for the small player base to support, especially those who play and buy other genres. So that gamers are generally sticking to CAVE titles plus a couple of non CAVE STGs. I think this is Grevs problem with Strania which might have done better on another platform. But if CAVE are starting to wind down in console STG development it'll give the smaller companies like Grev some leeway, thats if theyre still in business.

[gray117]

Personally I think the Wii might of been a better choice than the 360 given the system had its 2D retrogamer niche although from what ive heard its online features were diabolical. The PS3 though was a no go area for shmups even though things might be slightly better today. Doe anyone have an idea how well Wii STG sold?

To put it shortly none of the platforms this gen were good homes for shmups, although the 360 is imo the best of a bad bunch from a gamers perspective, with XBLA, leaderboards and high def. Even those I wish more shmups were on PC, even that isnt the perfect choice atleast from a competative standpoint, as it makes it easy to cheat. With ppl using old PCs or crappy graphics cards its easy to over tax the hardware and run the game in slow-mo. For example all those Jamestown "Superplay" vids with the game running at 50% speed due to the capture software. IF CAVE were to port their games to PC imo they would have to run some anticheat mechanism so that only those running the game at full speed could post scores.

While the 360 might have been good for CAVE it isnt so for other shmup devs especially atm. While im enjoying seeing all the new games on the 360 there is imo too many new shmups for the small player base to support, especially those who play and buy other genres. So that gamers are generally sticking to CAVE titles plus a couple of non CAVE STGs. I think this is Grevs problem with Strania which might have done better on another platform. But if CAVE are starting to wind down in console STG development it'll give the smaller companies like Grev some leeway, thats if theyre still in business.

I would have loved to see cave pony up on wii - I suspect the issue was nintendo themselves if they were going disc based and download restrictions if going digital... although they could have probably gotten away with that without high def versions...

Personally I think it would be a step up from the current state of play if people bothered to cheat with cave games on the pc... presuming of course they actually paid for the product to begin with :/ It would be interesting to see how many sales Jamestown has managed...

[legztec]

360 as best dev platorm best online posibilities and the most strict and best working anti piracy policy.
Imo they have made the most sensible choice.
lets face it, on the wii and ps3 I think most players would have just downloaded it.

[Skykid]

And what did we get? Great games for the X360! So what exactly is the problem?

Why limit yourself to the console with the lowest userbase? Look at this:

http://www.next-gen.biz/news/xbox-360-dead-japan

Selling games is really difficult when no retail store is stocking those games.

Cave & Co. are now stuck on the dead 360 with 0% Growth, look at Akai Katana Shin's low sales, and Plan B aka switch to PS3 is impossible because of lack of skills after ignoring the PS3 for ~5 years, and next Gen is still 1~3 years away.

The only choice left was switching to smartphones, or do you really think Cave announces DDP Collection, Mushihime Collection or Cave Shooting Collection Vol.1 Ibara & Ibara Kuro, or Cave Shooting Collection Vol. 2 Progear & ESP RA.DE. @ TGS 2011

The same goes for G.Rev; G.Rev, almost bancrupt because of the Xbox360, now wants to develop games for other companys, but thats somewhat difficult, because G.Rev only knows the 360 architecture, and not PS3/PSP/DS etc

BTW, anyone still got this stupid picture from last years TGS with all those Cave-people posing on the Xbox360 stand with crossed arms, celebrating the now officially dead japanese Xbox360?

They went with the 360 for a reason, same as 95% of other modern shmup developers incidentally. Whether it was easier access to market, easier development tools or because Sony are pricks doesn't really matter. The 360 has the wider userbase globally compared to the PS3, so perhaps they were hoping for international licences (of which they've had a few). One thing that definitely has better exposure are shmups released onto XBLA internationally, perhaps this is where Cave will go to now they're abandoning arcade development and embracing downloadable gaming.

Either way, 360 might have had it in Japan now it's hit its 1.5 million install base target, but so have Cave, technically. Good timing.

[chempop]

Was this interview posted yet?

http://www.pocketgamer.biz/r/PG.Biz/Cav ... sp?c=32570

[bcass]

Seems to confirm that they won't turn their back on their hardcore fanbase. We've been pretty spoilt with the deluge of ports (on the 360) over the last few years. Two years ago, if you've had said that we'd see 9 Cave retail releases (and 1 XBLA release) in the space of 24 months nobody would have believed you. But amazingly, that's what we've had. I think people just need to be a little more patient. I reckon they'll be more 360 stuff announced later this year/early next year. I still think we'll see at least one original 360 shmup from them this gen.

[legztec]

Seems they are also working on Android games.
Lets suggest an ibara port for android.
But ddp dfk and DS would be very welcome too!

[AntiFritz]

Seems they are also working on Android games.
Lets suggest an ibara port for android.
But ddp dfk and DS would be very welcome too!

Ibara for 360 first

[Skykid]

Was this interview posted yet?

http://www.pocketgamer.biz/r/PG.Biz/Cav ... sp?c=32570

Doesn't sound so bleak after all.

$40 million a year ain't bad turnover for a company of that size... Especially with all those traditionally overworked, underpaid Japanese staff.

[Casey120]

I think CAVE as a dev . will be fine , it's just the Arcade division that has been flushed trough the Toilet !

[antron]

360 as best dev platorm best online posibilities and the most strict and best working anti piracy policy.
Imo they have made the most sensible choice.
lets face it, on the wii and ps3 I think most players would have just downloaded it.

IIRC the ps3 is still the most secure system. a jailbroken one cannot play newer games.

I think the 360 was perfect (besides the RROD). PUT IT IN YOUR CAB! The PS3 is for your TV.

[Skykid]

PUT IT IN YOUR CAB!

Indeed, my Xbox 360 has transformed itself into a bona fide Jamma device since it's been in my cab. That console has been given new meaning.

[dan76]

EDIT: I can't be arsed

[Icemael]

http://www.facebook.com/notes/cave/abou ... 2109485804

Amongst other things, they wrote this:

It's disappointing, but arcade games already do not make sense from a business perspective.
However, we will continue to develop arcade games since I believe that putting games out at Japanese game centers is an extremely effective marketing tool for CAVE’s shooters.

To all our overseas arcade game fans.
Consider picking up our future arcade boards via mail order!
If we sell 500 copies, we can make a new arcade shooter.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

Oh, I love this guy. Hopefully I can work out a plan to be able to buy kits new.

[Udderdude]

To all our overseas arcade game fans.
Consider picking up our future arcade boards via mail order!
If we sell 500 copies, we can make a new arcade shooter.

That's nice, but not many players are willing to risk paying $2000 on an arcade game only to find out it's another Deathsmiles II or Akai Katana. Or spend that much on a "Special edition" board that they can't lend to an arcade for profit sharing because it's forced to Free Play only. Yes I can hear the Cave defense force revving up it's engines right now, but let's face it, those games were not worth their price.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

I enjoy Akai Katana a lot more than Ibara (original) or Pink Sweets, but the 1CC is a bit too easy and it should have had a second mode, like what the home version was. A version without accepting coins was a mistake but people knew it didn't take coins before they bought it. It doesn't sound like he is talking about releasing another one like that, and surely they learned their lesson on the DS2 hardware. I've never played it but if the graphics would have been flattened and it released on SH3 hardware it probably wouldn't have gotten the complaints(?) I haven't played it so I don't know. I see your point about wanting to test something before paying. I don't think that will happen for most people outside of Japan. It's worth it to me to pay lots of money to see them continue to make arcade shooters even if there are a few that aren't that great to me. There aren't really any other games I am very interested in anymore.

[Elixir]

500 arcade boards, at 180,000 yen each? You gotta be kidding me.

[Observer]

CAVE needs to realise where the money and the real business model is at:

TF2 hats.

I can imagine even the lamest guy would drop cash on a CAVE Shooting Pack or something like that provided it comes with TF2 and Portal 2 content. Hell, they can drop DOTA2 shit, whatever they please, lol.

[AntiFritz]

CAVE needs to realise where the money and the real business model is at:

TF2 hats.

I can imagine even the lamest guy would drop cash on a CAVE Shooting Pack or something like that provided it comes with TF2 and Portal 2 content. Hell, they can drop DOTA2 shit, whatever they please, lol.

Sadly, people actually do this.

[Sumez]

Yes I can hear the Cave defense force revving up it's engines right now, but let's face it, those games were not worth their price.

Nobody thinks they are.
Cave seems to forget that not every Cave fan is an obsessed collector. The majority of them just want to play good games. Personally I don't care if they release them as arcade boards as long as I can play them on my X360.