Anyone else feeling the Daifukkatsu meh?

[Skykid]

I have a giant erection for DDP DFK BL. It's so gritty I need a cold shower post game. God bless you Yagawa, you single-handedly saved Dodonpachi.

As for 1.5... meh. Arrange A ftw.

[Erppo]

God bless you Yagawa, you single-handedly saved Dodonpachi.

Dodonpachi with no chaining is a pretty crappy Dodonpachi.

[TonK]

Starting to feel the TonK meh.

I normally don't agree with you.

However, I'm personally annoyed by the way he formats his posts.

Jesus Christ, man, can you make things easier for people reading this on a smartphone?

Oh well.

He probably won't read this anyways.

Think they make an app called tapatalk.

Should help you out.

Been posting like this for 15 years, not gonna change.

[TonK]

I have a giant erection for DDP DFK BL. It's so gritty I need a cold shower post game. God bless you Yagawa, you single-handedly saved Dodonpachi.

As for 1.5... meh. Arrange A ftw.

Arrange A was really fun. I'll admit that.

How did Yagawa save DoDonPachi? I don't follow?

[Aliquantic]

Semi-related but I wish Yagawa made a game with more relevant rank again Rank is only meaningful in DFKBL because hypers lower it and kill your scoring potential for a few seconds, and otherwise it's mostly a no-brainer to keep the pedal to the medal... MMP's rank was basically uncontrollable and maxing out very early on, leaving Pink Sweets as his last rank-based abomination :s

And we still need people to actually play DFKBL and get anywhere with it, the leaderboards are so barren outside of one Bomb's 1cc and an okay B-P 1cc

[Chaos Phoenixma]

God bless you Yagawa, you single-handedly saved Dodonpachi.

Dodonpachi with no chaining is a pretty crappy Dodonpachi.

Doesn't the chain affect the star value? And chaining systems are terrible outside of medal chains, so a DoDonPachi without it would be great.

[Aliquantic]

Go read the strategy thread for an explanation of the scoring system, but what Erppo is saying is that your chain is basically unbreakable in this game (unless you fail to cancel a hyper in time or something) and even having it drop much doesn't happen a lot, so you pretty much never have to worry about chaining enemies.

[ebarrett]

DFKBL is a disservice to the series and a disgrace to Yagawa.

[Skykid]

DFKBL is a disservice to the series and a disgrace to Yagawa.

lololol

[cools]

Think they make an app called tapatalk.

Should help you out.

Tapatalk requires forum admin buy in.

As such, I can't see the admin here installing it.

Same for AO.

[Sapz]

I'm curious why the general consensus seems to be that DFKBL is so much better than DFK 1.5. I'd agree that the music is excellent, which is the most common praise I hear, but if it's that big a difference you could just change the BGM in the menu provided you're on the port. Of course, I still think it's a good game in itself, but the scoring system seems very messy compared to how elegant, simple, and challenging 1.5's is.

It seems to require less thought on the player's part - you build up your score value mainly by shooting bullet cancel enemies with the rank maxed (as it always should be), after which you just try and find as many ways to milk bullet cancels as possible, usually by hypering repeatedly. It's nothing like the thrill of always being one wrong move away from dropping your difficult chain and losing everything, and finally managing to nail it in a real run, and then improve it as much as you can - on top of that, it's easier than usual to get into in DFK 1.5, since the addition of hypers means you can cheese through some hard parts in exchange for taking a chunk out of your score, making this the most accessible of the series for chaining beginners, while providing some really crazy chains you can pull off if you're really good (there's some awesome stuff in top replays).

For what it's worth, BL gave me a much better first impression than 1.5, but it didn't really keep my interest beyond a few days of play, while 1.5 has gotten better and better the more I play it.

Anyone want to help me out here?

[Zeron]

Man this thread is already quite big imagine when the game is out in PAL we are in a world of pain.

[cools]

Anyone want to help me out here?

Like enemy chaining, like 1.5. Dislike enemy chaining, like BL.

[TonK]

Think they make an app called tapatalk.

Should help you out.

Tapatalk requires forum admin buy in.

As such, I can't see the admin here installing it.

Same for AO.

Looks like he's up shits creek.

[Sumez]

Just read about the BL scoring.
Looks extremely convoluted, like most of the stuff Yagawa has had his hands on lately, but I'm pleased to see a Yagawa shooter where you actually WANT to keep your rank high instead of playing like a retard to control it.

[Paradigm]

I'm curious why the general consensus seems to be that DFKBL is so much better than DFK 1.5. I'd agree that the music is excellent, which is the most common praise I hear, but if it's that big a difference you could just change the BGM in the menu provided you're on the port. Of course, I still think it's a good game in itself, but the scoring system seems very messy compared to how elegant, simple, and challenging 1.5's is.

It seems to require less thought on the player's part - you build up your score value mainly by shooting bullet cancel enemies with the rank maxed (as it always should be), after which you just try and find as many ways to milk bullet cancels as possible, usually by hypering repeatedly. It's nothing like the thrill of always being one wrong move away from dropping your difficult chain and losing everything, and finally managing to nail it in a real run, and then improve it as much as you can - on top of that, it's easier than usual to get into in DFK 1.5, since the addition of hypers means you can cheese through some hard parts in exchange for taking a chunk out of your score, making this the most accessible of the series for chaining beginners, while providing some really crazy chains you can pull off if you're really good (there's some awesome stuff in top replays).

For what it's worth, BL gave me a much better first impression than 1.5, but it didn't really keep my interest beyond a few days of play, while 1.5 has gotten better and better the more I play it.

Anyone want to help me out here?

Good post. I like both games, but I think the reason why BL is favoured over 1.5 on here is mainly because, as you say, BL makes a better first impression than 1.5. It's balls to the wall where as 1.5 is a more measured pace and plays more like a traditional DDP. The thing is, I don't think many people here have really tried learning to play 1.5 for a good score (just look at the high score thread). For the people who just prefer to chuck a few credits in and have a blast, BL is the better option since it offers a more fun survival challenge (especially Strong).

[Aliquantic]

Like enemy chaining, like 1.5. Dislike enemy chaining, like BL.

Shouldn't that read "Like chaining, like 1.5. Dislike chaining, dislike 1.5"? I can't really imagine liking a game because of the *lack* of a feature... my best guess would be that BL is more enjoyable simply by virtue of being much easier to pick up and having the appearance of difficulty and rank management, with a pretty linear scoring system that's not very hard to use (it sounds more complex than it actually is really, at least up to a certain level, a lot like Ketsui's actually).

Unfortunately there's a definite scoring ceiling in BL between getting a straight 1cc and the sort of strategies AJPN on Livetube used, and figuring out how to score into the 7000-8000 oku range like he did isn't straightforward... it's pretty enjoyable until you reach that ceiling, however, and must be fun when you've got everything figured out like AJPN

[Erppo]

The point is that Dodonpachi is all about the chaining. That's the series' defining characteristic and feel, and if you don't think about chaining when you think about Dodonpachi you must be doing something wrong.

Then we get DFKBL which claims to be a Dodonpachi, but does not feel like one at all. Instead it plays like some random other new Cave game. It might be a good game, but it's still a really bad Dodonpachi and saying it's somehow "saving the series" or something like that is something I can't understand at all. Really that sounds more like the speaker didn't even like the series to begin with.

[cools]

Precisely.

Screw single-mistake-and-your-whole-run-is-wasted games.

[Erppo]

Precisely.

Screw single-mistake-and-your-whole-run-is-wasted games.

Hmm: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 89#p704789

[4] DoDonPachi Dai-ou-Jou Black label
[3] DoDonPachi Daifukkatsu Black label
[2] DoDonPachi

[cools]

DFK BL was in that list before I clicked with it I should revisit it actually.

DOJ and DDP are far better than a whole load of other titles, doesn't mean I want to play them for score.

[kernow]

DDP DFK BL

^_~

[dan76]

The point is that Dodonpachi is all about the chaining. That's the series' defining characteristic and feel, and if you don't think about chaining when you think about Dodonpachi you must be doing something wrong.

The problem with DFK is there is no survival challenge and this is the immediate thing that hits you with Black Label. At a very basic level it's what shooters are all about, it's what Yagawa put back in. Sure, chaining is key with the Dodonpachi series, but DFK is the first game that you can't enjoy playing for survival.

Survival = dodging bullets, it's at the core of the genre. Auto-bomb takes this away, as does hypering.

Players who can master scoring in any game get to experience it in a way that most don't/can't. So if you really dig the scoring system in DFK obviously you will think it's better than Black Label. But surely you can see why a lot of people don't like it, and why there is a "meh" thread in the first place.

[Aliquantic]

Screw single-mistake-and-your-whole-run-is-wasted games.

Welcome to high-level play in score-focused game There's less of an apparent difference between excellent, average and mediocre scores in DFKBL than in DFK 1.5 (just like DOJ has less score variation than DFK 1.5, and DDP the least), but the gaps between scoring tiers haven't gone anywhere, and the leniency is mostly illusionary with deaths still crushing your score for the stage, and more minor mistakes like failing bullet herding or mistiming hypers still costing a lot... if your personal high score is solid enough, big mistakes are pretty much going to doom your whole run.

Dan76, the survival challenges in DFK 1.5 are playing as Power and surviving the loops or even getting into Ura in the first place (no more than 1 death and 2 bombs). Strong makes that a fair bit easier, but Bomb and especially Power are something else altogether, even for Erppo and RDP, and the Power Ura 2-ALL is harder than anything else in the DDP series... sure, the survival challenges aren't everyone's cup of tea, but I'm confused when people seem to overlook them altogether (and again Power works for everyone for an immediate challenge, with a murdering loop as a follow-up).

[cools]

Screw single-mistake-and-your-whole-run-is-wasted games.

Welcome to high-level play in score-focused game

I'm happy if I can be average in any game, competing with those on the same level as me. As such, BL provides more incentive to play. You know from the outset if your chain breaks in 1.5 your score is going to suck... Whereas in BL a death or two on levels 1 or 2 can be more than made up by a great run through L3.

[xbl0x180]

There is so much crap to blow up on Level 4, how could I ever be bored with that?! I sometimes just play that Level by itself

[Erppo]

Players who can master scoring in any game get to experience it in a way that most don't/can't. So if you really dig the scoring system in DFK obviously you will think it's better than Black Label. But surely you can see why a lot of people don't like it, and why there is a "meh" thread in the first place.

Sure, and for casual play BL is likely better choice for many people. I like BL myself too and think it's a really good game. I don't have anything against people preferring another scoring system, but against people failing to understand what makes the Dodonpachi series what it is, and how this is missing from BL.

The original DFK takes the old chaining system and evolves it a bit, making it work somewhat differently but still mostly the same. Therefore I see it as an excellent sequel to DOJ. DFKBL simply feels like a completely different game with no connection to the previous games in the series.

[TonK]

Players who can master scoring in any game get to experience it in a way that most don't/can't. So if you really dig the scoring system in DFK obviously you will think it's better than Black Label. But surely you can see why a lot of people don't like it, and why there is a "meh" thread in the first place.

Sure, and for casual play BL is likely better choice for many people. I like BL myself too and think it's a really good game. I don't have anything against people preferring another scoring system, but against people failing to understand what makes the Dodonpachi series what it is, and how this is missing from BL.

The original DFK takes the old chaining system and evolves it a bit, making it work somewhat differently but still mostly the same. Therefore I see it as an excellent sequel to DOJ. DFKBL simply feels like a completely different game with no connection to the previous games in the series.

This is the way I feel as well.

BL is OK for what it is, I don't think it should be directly compared to 1.0 or 1.5.

[third_strike]

Survival = dodging bullets, it's at the core of the genre. Auto-bomb takes this away, as does hypering.

I love this kind of complain about DFK 1.5, it is the same found in first post and makes you think which ships in the game will spam bombs when you are in a danger situation don't letting you dodge and breaking your valorous chain.
And meh: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6T3XrnYtFk

[cools]

Think they make an app called tapatalk.

Should help you out.

Tapatalk requires forum admin buy in.

As such, I can't see the admin here installing it.

Same for AO.

Looks like he's up shits creek.

<@kernow> tonk is actually my fake account