I remember having a XRGB2 and hooking up to a Samsung LCD with the video source being regular composite and it looked OK. Problem is if I don't have a RGB modded Famicom/NES or only have unmodded PCEs then I have composite.
With the upscalers the higher the source quality the better it will look on a LCD or Plasma.
I'm rebuying my Video game stuff slowly and in the future I would like to get a Plasma TV. Tube TVs aren't going to last forever so in the future I will have no choice but do the jump.
I went to my friends house with my PCE Duo and my god composite is terrible on it thru the tv's internal upscaler.
How much an improvement it will be if your source is only composite and you are using an external upscaler?
I know don't expect too much (for the PCE I will most likely get a RGB modded Duo-R in the future) but with certain systems only being composite it is a pain in the butt at times.
How good is the XRGB or any external upscaler for composite?
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GaijinPunch
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Re: How good is the XRGB or any external upscaler for composite?
You can't polish a turd. There really is no other way to describe it. If picture quality is important (and I dare say it always is in this hobby) buck up for an RGB modded system or (gasp) use emulation.
RegalSin wrote:New PowerPuff Girls. They all have evil pornstart eyelashes.
Re: How good is the XRGB or any external upscaler for composite?
True, you can't polish a turd. But there's some difference between a fresh turd, and having it smeared around... hmm, maybe the analogy is breaking down. What I'm trying to say is, buying expensive hardware just to make composite video look a bit better is an unsound financial decision, but you can absolutely buy scalers that handle composite better than some (many? most?) newer TVs do these days.
In my case I primarily bought my XRGB-3 for my SNES, Genesis, N64, and PS1 games. That it makes my unmodded NTSC front-loading NES look better than hooking it up straight to my LCD TV is a nice bonus. You'd absolutely be better off getting an RGB mod, but if you don't want to (say, if you're put off by the expense/difficulty, or in the NES case the slightly off palette of the current mod) and have enough other uses for the upscaler, it might make sense to get one. Of course, you won't get better than a CRT when using the original hardware, but I'm pretty happy with how CRT-like the XRGB makes my NES look on my LCD.
What's nice about the XRGB series is that they properly recognize and scale 240p whereas many modern TVs incorrectly think earlier consoles are pumping out 480i and attempt to deinterlace the picture. If this deinterlacing and the associated odd/even juddering on movement, incorrect 30Hz flickering/shadows, etc is what made you think composite with your friend's TV look "terrible" then a good upscaler can fix it. If on the other hand you were put off by dotcrawl on movement or colour bleed (or the occasional jagged vertical lines in the NES case, not sure if the PCE suffers from this), you will be disappointed with anything less than an RGB mod.
Have you tried hooking up an older system via composite to a CRT recently? I can't speak for the PCE, but an unmodded NES isn't pretty at the best of times. Better make sure you aren't wearing the rose-coloured glasses of nostalgia before shelling out too much.
In my case I primarily bought my XRGB-3 for my SNES, Genesis, N64, and PS1 games. That it makes my unmodded NTSC front-loading NES look better than hooking it up straight to my LCD TV is a nice bonus. You'd absolutely be better off getting an RGB mod, but if you don't want to (say, if you're put off by the expense/difficulty, or in the NES case the slightly off palette of the current mod) and have enough other uses for the upscaler, it might make sense to get one. Of course, you won't get better than a CRT when using the original hardware, but I'm pretty happy with how CRT-like the XRGB makes my NES look on my LCD.
What's nice about the XRGB series is that they properly recognize and scale 240p whereas many modern TVs incorrectly think earlier consoles are pumping out 480i and attempt to deinterlace the picture. If this deinterlacing and the associated odd/even juddering on movement, incorrect 30Hz flickering/shadows, etc is what made you think composite with your friend's TV look "terrible" then a good upscaler can fix it. If on the other hand you were put off by dotcrawl on movement or colour bleed (or the occasional jagged vertical lines in the NES case, not sure if the PCE suffers from this), you will be disappointed with anything less than an RGB mod.
Have you tried hooking up an older system via composite to a CRT recently? I can't speak for the PCE, but an unmodded NES isn't pretty at the best of times. Better make sure you aren't wearing the rose-coloured glasses of nostalgia before shelling out too much.
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neorichieb1971
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Re: How good is the XRGB or any external upscaler for composite?
Conversion doesn't improve the source.
GP states that modding your machine to output RGB is the best way to improve your PQ.
Commandment 11.
Thou shall not use composite video whilst shmupping.
GP states that modding your machine to output RGB is the best way to improve your PQ.
Commandment 11.
Thou shall not use composite video whilst shmupping.
This industry has become 2 dimensional as it transcended into a 3D world.
Re: How good is the XRGB or any external upscaler for composite?
The PC Engine isn't all that hard to RGB mod, the NES on the other hand...
Emulators look "fake" to me with the pixel perfect sharpness and accurate colors. However, if I didn't have so much invested in video equipment or wasn't insane, here's the set up I would use;
Computer outputting 640x480 > SLG3000 > Gefen VGA to DVI Scaler Plus.
The SLG allows you to add scanlines to any source, the Gefen allows for color adjustment and softens the image a fair amount. Depending on your monitor you might be able to skip the Gefen altogether. I'd prefer to have it, that way you can get any TV and not worry what the results will be like.
Emulators look "fake" to me with the pixel perfect sharpness and accurate colors. However, if I didn't have so much invested in video equipment or wasn't insane, here's the set up I would use;
Computer outputting 640x480 > SLG3000 > Gefen VGA to DVI Scaler Plus.
The SLG allows you to add scanlines to any source, the Gefen allows for color adjustment and softens the image a fair amount. Depending on your monitor you might be able to skip the Gefen altogether. I'd prefer to have it, that way you can get any TV and not worry what the results will be like.
Re: How good is the XRGB or any external upscaler for composite?
Not strictly true.neorichieb1971 wrote:Conversion doesn't improve the source..
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neorichieb1971
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Re: How good is the XRGB or any external upscaler for composite?
As far the XRGB2 is concerned it is. It looks Terrible.
This industry has become 2 dimensional as it transcended into a 3D world.
Re: How good is the XRGB or any external upscaler for composite?
I try to mod a X'Eye and I ruined the system. I'm not modding things ever again.
I guess I will have to spend money to do this correctly. Guess I'm stuck with tube TVs until I get more systems to justify the Plasma/RGB route.
I guess I will have to spend money to do this correctly. Guess I'm stuck with tube TVs until I get more systems to justify the Plasma/RGB route.