PSiKYO Appreciation from a Cave Fan

[captpain]

From watching some of the Dragon Blaze superplays during the 2nd loop, it's just nuts watching an ace player do his/her magic dance with those super-fast homing bullets. Definitely inhuman mad skills indeed.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

that Dragon Blaze superplay on super-play.co.uk is jaw-dropping. it's outstanding shmup play, really remarkable to watch.

[RNGmaster]

Here's a good DB superplay if you can't get super-play.co.uk to work.

GODHAND's WR run for GB2 is here.

[dunpeal2064]

Well, time to go sell a bunch of rpgs and buy a jap ps2, since I have a craving for Psikyo now

What are the differences between Gunbird 2 on the DC and the pack on ps2?

[Matskat]

Well, time to go sell a bunch of rpgs and buy a jap ps2, since I have a craving for Psikyo now

You're welcome?

And...have FUN!

[dunpeal2064]

Well, time to go sell a bunch of rpgs and buy a jap ps2, since I have a craving for Psikyo now

You're welcome?

And...have FUN!

Definitely Zero Gunner 2 aside, I have no Psikyo game that supports TATE Both US region ps1 ports are failing to fill the need for a good classic Psikyo shooter.

[Deca]

Be a real man and buy a Strikers 1999 board.

[dunpeal2064]

Be a real man and buy a Strikers 1999 board.

I gots no cab, so I'm not a real man in the first place. Just a bunch of kiddy consoles

Could probably get the console and all 3 psikyo games for cheaper than the board, unless its a cheap board.

[stryc9]

Be a real man and buy a Strikers 1999 board.

I gots no cab, so I'm not a real man in the first place. Just a bunch of kiddy consoles

Could probably get the console and all 3 psikyo games for cheaper than the board, unless its a cheap board.

Also Gunbird special edition and Dragon Blaze were released in PAL land thru 505 Gamestreet as budget titles, with SolDivide on it's own disc so you can avoid that one if you want (it's not great). All have 60 Hz options too. I picked them up as new releases back in 2007 for about $25 bucks each, along with Raiden III.
I got rid of all my PAL shit ages ago, but have just ordered the NTSCJ GB 1&2 as I am getting my CRT back soon.

To anyone thinking about picking up PAL Strikers after being inspired by this thread: don't, unless you like playing heavily letterboxed versions of your favourite games.

[Herr Schatten]

What are the differences between Gunbird 2 on the DC and the pack on ps2?

The pack on PS2 has the first game too, the DC version has Morrigan as a secret playable character. I think there was something wrong with the PS2 pack, but I can't remember offhand. (Might even concern only the first game.)

However, as Plasmo pointed out, it's an important topic. I really miss the Psikyo flavour of games. They are really focused, I like that. Everything from Strikers II onward is utterly excellent.
I do like their earlier output too, but I admit that the pre-Strikers II games are all a bit same-y. Additionally, I think that video Systems pretty much perfected the early-Psikyo style with Sonic Wings Special.

[Rob]

Check out Sonic Wings Special - it's like Psikyo without contaminations,

Turbo Force is Sonic Wings without impurities while Sonic Wings Special is a sun faded version of the least refined Psikyo game (yes, I did try it again). It offers nothing Psikyo didn't do many times better through many revisions. Distinctive bullet patterns and ship variety beyond "this one does wonky bullet spray" aren't contaminations.

Also, where is Rob? All this talk of Psikyo would usually attract his attention by now.

Well, I'm reading it.

[BPzeBanshee]

CAVE, Raizing and Psikyo are still the three "big ones" and all had a fantastic output over the years.

No love for Seibu Kaihatsu Inc.?

I may be relatively new here compared to most of the older crowd here but I grew up with the Raiden games, not Cave. In fact I didn't even know who the heck Cave was until Alluro pointed me to ESPRade (which I'm still hoping for a port to XBLA before we all die in 2012 ). And I'm one of those "new teenage kids who have popped up in the last few years".

In Darwin (Northern Territory, Australia), the only shmups that exist in arcades here are Raiden II and the Raiden Fighters titles. Unfortunately their state is deteriorating, partially due to the weather and also due to lack of maintenance along with a certain community of individuals messing them up whenver they're let loose. Most teenagers around here that have played any kind of game around the cinemas and shopping centres here know the games not by name but by this:


The few remaining cabinets for the games are in a sorry state, but nonetheless they get a lot of play time as well (I know Raiden Fighters JET is in a sports club next to Metal Slug 3). Point is, there's nothing Cave here at all. Nothing Raizing either. For the other companies to not have stretched their games to this part of the world which isn't THAT far from Japan itself implies to me that they're at least a good contender.

Other than that totally patriotic view, I agree with your views too. We need more focus on the manic shmups as opposed to just Cave and Wankhou. The ST threads are quite helpful for introducing one to the Yagawa Raizing games for sure, if that kind of intricate documentation could be focused on other games I think we'd get more interest as well to get people past whatever initial intimidation that some of these fast-paced manic games provide.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Turbo Force is Sonic Wings without impurities while Sonic Wings Special is a sun faded version of the least refined Psikyo game (yes, I did try it again). It offers nothing Psikyo didn't do many times better through many revisions. Distinctive bullet patterns and ship variety beyond "this one does wonky bullet spray" aren't contaminations.

Contaminations are things like special attacks (I like some of them, most notably the dragon thing, but they take away from the purity of experience) and reduced hitbox size. One contamination I'm glad Psikyo didn't commit (as far as I can tell) is bullet cancelling - it takes playing games like Vasara or Homura to appreciate Dragon Blaze for what it doesn't do. At least for me Dragon Blaze feels more like Vasara where bullets don't disappear than improved Sonic Wings.
I wonder which Psikyo game had a pulse weapon better than IL-102 from Sonic Wings Special (there's a similar fighter in Sengoku Ace, but not quite as awesome). Compile games have nearly as awesome pulse/pounding/hammering weapons, but bettering that IL-102 was beyond Psikyo as far as I know. Or maybe they weren't interested. Either way - a shame.

[Plasmo]

Important topic.

I know, right? Thanks? (Unless my sarcast-o-meter is broken)

Nope, I'm fully serious. We need more Psikyo talk. The games are awesome!

CAVE, Raizing and Psikyo are still the three "big ones" and all had a fantastic output over the years.

No love for Seibu Kaihatsu Inc.?

Of course there are many other awesome companies, but their output was way smaller and they just don't match up with CAVE, Raizing and Psikyo. But yeah, Seibu Kaihatsu would probably be number four.

[Herr Schatten]

One contamination I'm glad Psikyo didn't commit (as far as I can tell) is bullet cancelling

One character in Gunbird 1 has a bullet-cancelling charge attack.

[Plasmo]

Same goes for Gunbird 2 and even Strikers 45 (and probably others I can't think of right now)!

[Dave_K.]

CAVE, Raizing and Psikyo are still the three "big ones" and all had a fantastic output over the years.

No love for Seibu Kaihatsu Inc.?

I don't know if you did this on purpose, but I love how the toothpaste laser looks like its painting a giant question mark!

Although I love Psikyo, I'd also put Seibu Kaihatsu just slightly above them when referencing the "big three": Cave, Raizing, Seibu. Following these (IMHO) would be: Toaplan, Psikyo, IREM

[Deca]

One thing I really have trouble understanding is Seibu love. I feel that Jet is pretty good, Fighters 1 and 2 are slightly above average, and everything else is intensely mediocre. I've tried real hard to like these games more, I did come to appreciate the fighters series for what it is but the rest just do nothing for me no matter how many times I come back to them.

[jepjepjep]

How do the Sonic Wings games fit into the picture with Psikyo? I thought I read somewhere that the main guys from Video System left after SW1 to form Psykio and make Strikers. Is that true? I'd be curious to hear how you guys rate Sonic Wings Limited versus some of the Psikyo games.

[dunpeal2064]

How do the Sonic Wings games fit into the picture with Psikyo? I thought I read somewhere that the main guys from Video System left after SW1 to form Psykio and make Strikers. Is that true? I'd be curious to hear how you guys rate Sonic Wings Limited versus some of the Psikyo games.

This is what I remember hearing in the History of Shooting documentary.

As for Seibu, definitely belong up there. I would say that, if we were comparing best titles, Seibu would probably win out over Psikyo (although I have yet to play quite a few Psikyo shooters still), but its the variety that really does it for me. I think the reason I love Cave so much is the variety, and Psikyo has that too.

Don't get me wrong, I love Raiden 1-3 and Raiden Fighters 2. But I could just pick 2 Raiden games and feel that they represented Seibu's entire catalog well enough. With Psikyo, you get Gunbird, Strikers, Sengoku, and Zero Gunner (not to mention Dragon Blaze). Even just taking the best out of each series, it still feels like a lot more than the Raiden series.

So, if I could only pick to have one Seibu game or one Psikyo game, I would choose Seibu (RF2), but if I had to choose between one catalog or the other, I would choose Psikyo.

Seibu wins hands down for music, especially for the earlier games.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Yep, the BGM tunes on the Raiden II PCB are ace/legendary. After renting a PSX console and copy of Raiden Project from a local Blockbuster back in October of 1995, I wanted to see if it played as closely to the PCB version (and if it was as good as the PCB version). It's a stellar conversion indeed with input from Seibu themselves. And with a Gameshark or Goldfinger device + some codes, it's doable to correct the controller issue that plagues the U.S. PSX version of RP to get it to tate the controls if playing it in tate.

Returning back to the original topic of Psikyo:

Tis a shame that both the JPN version of PSX Gunbird along with the USA PSX version of Mobile Light Force don't include a tate mode. At least with the JPN PSX version of Strikers 1945 II, it had the tate option from the get-go (whereas the Agetech released Strikers 1945 game stripped the tate functionality). There's still talk about trying to generate/hack some Gameshark codes by trial & error to see if such a "hidden tate mode" can accessed though with the USA PSX version of S-1945.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Deca]

Local arcade has a Raiden 2 cab, I guess I'll give it another chance and check it out. Admittedly I have much less experience with Raiden than Raiden Fighters...I'm pretty fond of some of the music in Jet. Interested to reassess and see what all the commotion is about

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

I gotta disagree with this (completely). The music in Raiden II is mediocre at best. Good game but the music composition is really sub-par in my honest opinion.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Well, if you listen to the Redbook formatted stereo 44.1kHz version of the original Raiden II BGM on the Interplay released PC Raiden II game for Win95 OS, it's quite good. Of course, with the Raiden II PCB version, the BGM is presented in mono format at best and using the best sound chips that they could source during manufacturing. With the PSX port of Raiden Project, Raiden 2's BGM is presented in the lower grade Yellowbook audio format at best.

Granted, the Raiden II "New Version" PCB re-released from Seibu themselves, uses a lower quality sound chip that loops BGM tunes compared to the original R-2 PCB version.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Sapz]

We need more competition in the Strikers 1999 board.

Psikyo 2nd loops!

From what I can gather, they're known to be BROOOOOTAAL!
(I myself may not see one for a few months )
Seems that Loop 1 is just window dressing for the meat and potatoes that is Loop 2?

Anybody corroborate? Now I understand why the level nomenclature is 1-1, 1-2 and so forth...heh!

If you're looking to sink a lot of time into the games, I'd agree that the second loop is definitely the main event, though a 1-all is pretty satisfying on its own the first time you manage it. Stuff fires faster bullets more often in more difficult to avoid patterns (though maybe not quite as much in Sengoku Ace), and many enemies (including popcorns) will fire (often unsealable) suicide bullets back at you, which complicates matters quite a lot, especially since these same popcorns will show up at intervals during boss fights adding another layer of stuff to dodge on top of the boss patterns. At least in S1999, I was able to clear the first loop quickly after memorizing the attacks, but a 2-all requires a totally different level of dedication, and even progressing by a single stage feels like an accomplishment.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

Well, if you listen to the Redbook formatted stereo 44.1kHz version of the original Raiden II BGM on the Interplay released PC Raiden II game for Win95 OS, it's quite good. Of course, with the Raiden II PCB version, the BGM is presented in mono format at best and using the best sound chips that they could source during manufacturing. With the PSX port of Raiden Project, Raiden 2's BGM is presented in the lower grade Yellowbook audio format at best.

Granted, the Raiden II "New Version" PCB re-released from Seibu themselves, uses a lower quality sound chip that loops BGM tunes compared to the original R-2 PCB version.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

I have the original version pcb and you can also play the music through the M1 emulator on your PC. I'm not talking about the limitations of the chips, I mean the composing. If you ever compose something on a looping workstation you'll see how easy it is for something like this. It's really uninspired (only my opinion of course). For the most part they sound like songs someone would throw out or someone wrote them who isn't a musician.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Well, if you listen to the Redbook formatted stereo 44.1kHz version of the original Raiden II BGM on the Interplay released PC Raiden II game for Win95 OS, it's quite good. Of course, with the Raiden II PCB version, the BGM is presented in mono format at best and using the best sound chips that they could source during manufacturing. With the PSX port of Raiden Project, Raiden 2's BGM is presented in the lower grade Yellowbook audio format at best.

Granted, the Raiden II "New Version" PCB re-released from Seibu themselves, uses a lower quality sound chip that loops BGM tunes compared to the original R-2 PCB version.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

I have the original version pcb and you can also play the music through the M1 emulator on your PC. I'm not talking about the limitations of the chips, I mean the composing. If you ever compose something on a looping workstation you'll see how easy it is for something like this. It's really uninspired (only my opinion of course). For the most part they sound like songs someone would throw out or someone wrote them who isn't a musician.

I am sure when it came to working with the state-of-art audio technology for 1992-1993 timeline for arcade PCBs, some limitations/concessions had to taken into consideration/worked around just to able to fit the entire R-2's BGM tunes onto the PCB for the audio chip to decode and playback. I do see your point though and it's duly noted regarding basic music composition.

I don't have any musical training myself but having spent over four years crafting some cool shmup themed BGM tunes on the JPN PSX Dezaemon Plus program using the built-in BGM Editor interface, it's possible to create some killer BGM tunes despite the severe limitations placed upon the end-user/gamer. It was a lot of trial 'n' error and plently of patience to see what could be done and couldn't be done with it. Athena Co. Ltd. would be shocked to hear some the BGM pieces that I managed to compose/whip up.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[BPzeBanshee]

I don't know if you did this on purpose, but I love how the toothpaste laser looks like its painting a giant question mark!

Although I love Psikyo, I'd also put Seibu Kaihatsu just slightly above them when referencing the "big three": Cave, Raizing, Seibu. Following these (IMHO) would be: Toaplan, Psikyo, IREM

Wow, you're right. I just picked it off Google Image Search.

I'm with you on the big three factor there, but I imagine if I were born and raised in America and had more access to Psikyo games in my childhood I'd probably have a soft spot towards them as well. I like to think of the subgenre extremes as Seibu being manic, Cave being bullet-hell and Raizing being somewhere in between, while Psikyo's somewhere between Seibu and Raizing. Furthermore, whenever I try to talk to people about "manic" shmups where the bullets are fast and not hectic as opposed to Touhou/Cave and they have no idea of the genre's intricacies, they usually remember a game they played or had seen at one point and that's always either a Raiden or Strikers game. I think the companies are both legends in their own right, really.

One thing I really have trouble understanding is Seibu love. I feel that Jet is pretty good, Fighters 1 and 2 are slightly above average, and everything else is intensely mediocre. I've tried real hard to like these games more, I did come to appreciate the fighters series for what it is but the rest just do nothing for me no matter how many times I come back to them.

It is a matter of preference, but in all fairness I could say the same thing about Battle Garegga and indeed other titles. This is the beauty of the Shmups Forum, which was my previous point - not everyone here got introduced by Cave. All of the other companies legendary titles deserve a mention as well. Much like most of Yagawa's rank control games I believe the Raiden games are an acquired taste, and Raiden Fighters is another acquired taste again altogether.

As for the complaints about the Raiden music, stop playing the games in MAME (cause Raiden Fighters sound is borked) and know that there is much much worse out there.

[toaplan_shmupfan]

Well, if you listen to the Redbook formatted stereo 44.1kHz version of the original Raiden II BGM on the Interplay released PC Raiden II game for Win95 OS, it's quite good. Of course, with the Raiden II PCB version, the BGM is presented in mono format at best and using the best sound chips that they could source during manufacturing. With the PSX port of Raiden Project, Raiden 2's BGM is presented in the lower grade Yellowbook audio format at best.

This is true.

I have the PC Raiden II, I have PSX (PSOne) Raiden Project, and I've played a Raiden II cabinet at least five different times.

In fact, PSX Raiden Project actually seems to have minor yet noticable compositional differences when compared to the Interplay/Cyberfront released PC Raiden II, it is definitely not exact note for note, and some of the instruments do not sound completely identical to the Redbook audio.

True, some of the music is just kind of there--nothing really cool about the piece and no significant memorable melody--but the same can be said for Raiden III as well.

[Soldato J]

first post made me

[dunpeal2064]

Whats really neat is on the jp Raiden Project ps1 pack, they give you arranged versions of both tracks, and they are quite nice!

The tracks aren't musical masterpieces, but they still force my head into a bob. I still find the tracks quite impressive for what space was available.

For me, DOJ still tops it musically. Especially the arranged tracks for stage 1, 2, & 4