XBOX 360 - 240p Video Conversion?

[Fudoh]

Maybe i must wait for the Extron 580.

all the Extrons are the same. You won't notice any difference.

With the 360, when its "OFF", theres nice scanlines, but screen is "blurry" and its "shaking"

I can't really remember (since I only use LCDs and the whole conversion won't work on my setup), but it should be quite obvious which one's the right setting. I think DDSP should be switched on, since off's the standard setting which should just pass the 480i signal.

I dont think so, Dragon Blaze looks definitely better on PS2...

maybe you should give Dragon Blaze a go with the RGB interface. Dragon Blaze is running in fake 480i on the PS2, so it should convert nicely to 240p

but for now im sticking with my Emotia....

If you use the right games (try something like Death Smiles or Futari in arcade mode), the result of both conversation should be very similar, but the 480i to 240p conversion should be sharper/clearer.

[fagin]

For the 360 DDSP should be off but CSYNC switched on for scanlines. These is the same settings for anything RGB SCART related.

[Sparda]

thanks Fudoh, thanks fagin ^^

Fagin, what is your exact setting ? 360 (pal or ntsc...ntsc i suppose :p)....scart....sync strike...vga cable...extron (DDSP OFF, C SYNC)...RGBH (RGBS ?)...bnc2scart ?


Sorry to be such a noob ^^

With RGBH, im not getting nice scanline, and honestly, no difference compared to the 360 rgb... but with RGBS, scanlines are big, but the screen is "unstable", its "flickering", seems to be a sync problem.

[Sparda]

i think the region console is important too, i dont get the same picture with my PAL PS2 or my JP PS2...same when i set my PAL 360 on Pal-60 or Pal-50. But except those "settings", i've the same "shaky/blurry" screen, its like there's 2"pictures", offset , surimposed ,


One last question..with the Extron, the conversion must be similar to the Emotia ? With really nice scanlines ?


I really dont want bothering you.....i'm sorry

[Fudoh]

One last question..with the Extron, the conversion must be similar to the Emotia ? With really nice scanlines ?

yes, have you had a look at the videos originally posted showing the results ?
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 69#p605569

[fagin]

Sparda,
I have tested on my PAL PS2 (mod chipped) and JAP 360. Both work 100%. The only other setting is not to connect the vertical sync BNC out. Only use the sync out directly next to the RGB BNC's. Connecting the VSYNC fubar'd the picture.

I will test my PAL 360 to be sure of that one as well.

P.S. This worked with either a Syncblaster cable or the Sync Strike (between the console and Extron).

[fagin]

Just tried on my PAL 360 and it works fine with both sync cleaner methods (Syncblaster and Sync Strike - strangely the SS needed ext PWR to work).

[Sparda]

@Fudoh: i already watched them, i dont get such nice scanlines...


@fagin: thanks again ^^


So, maybe my Extron is faulty (i dont think the Sync Strike is faulty...but i noticed the LM1881 is not very well soldered, so i'll build an homemade sync cleaner tomorrow).

If someone is interested, i can send the Extron 160xi for testing.

[fagin]

@Fudoh: i already watched them, i dont get such nice scanlines...


@fagin: thanks again ^^


So, maybe my Extron is faulty (i dont think the Sync Strike is faulty...but i noticed the LM1881 is not very well soldered, so i'll build an homemade sync cleaner tomorrow).

If someone is interested, i can send the Extron 160xi for testing.

If your using a Sync Strike try and power it externally like I did.... +6v will suffice.

[Sparda]

I powered it with a Nokia charger....nevermind, im waiting for the 580xi, so i'll be fixed if the 160xi is faulty or not

If you guys (Fudoh , fagin) are interested by an Extron 160xi for free, let me know ^^

Edit: i tested with the 580xi this morning, and now, i can see the difference, so i think my 160xi is faulty. But like you said, its "pseudo 240p", and honestly, i prefer the Emotia conversion, with nice/big scanlines.

[Sparda]

For the 360 DDSP should be off but CSYNC switched on for scanlines. These is the same settings for anything RGB SCART related.

On Xbox(1), with CoinOPS , i must set CSync OFF for nice scanlines


And now, with the 360 im facing a strange phenomena with DDSP OFF, if you can take a look at the video, and tell me what you think


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqYvqbhAobk

(for the video, if you can take a look at the beginning, and at 4:34)

[Fudoh]

But like you said, its "pseudo 240p",

it depends on the game. You have to see what the Extron does and what the original game does: If you take games like Dragon Blaze on PS2, Sengoku Ace on PS2, Metal Slug 3 on PS3, Futari ARCADE Mode on 360 - all games which use perfect 1:1 linedoubling, which means the Extron just takes the fields and rearranges every second one by moving it 1 line. If you take a real 480i/p game on the other hand (take Futari in 360 mode), the lines won't match. They are not supposed to be on the same height and you'll receive flicker and the "pseudo" 240p look.

[rugdoctor]

@Fudoh The only 1 point I can see the 580xi over the 160xi is:

•Automatic sync stripping from red, green, and blue — Strips the sync off the input signal while allowing H and V sync output, even if the input signal is RGBS, RGsB or RsGsBs.

Could that make a difference than Sparda is noticing with his previous setup?

[fagin]

Sparda,
I have not tried the XBOX 1.

360 does not show the issues you have though.

[KBZ]

given what the extron emotia is able to do, is there any added benefit to using an arcadevga or soft15khz as far as mame on the PC is concerned?

[fagin]

given what the extron emotia is able to do, is there any added benefit to using an arcadevga or soft15khz as far as mame on the PC is concerned?

Unless I'm missing something....

The Arcadevga or Soft15khz will provide as near as damn it perfect scaling (based on available resolutions) and a crystal clear image on a CRT with pixel perfect "native" scanlines.

[KBZ]

I suppose the arcadevga would be superior in that it supports some of the more obscure low resolutions. But in theory, if you have the game set to run in 480p, it will display in 240p with an extron rgb.

I'd like to try this with mame. Going from PC VGA to Extron RGB to SONY PVM, I can achieve 240p as well as any 50-60hz refresh rates? Raiden Fighters 2 comes to mind.

thanks

[fagin]

Yes, you may get a 240p image as in number of video lines (and 240 blank lines)... but surely having MAME set to 640x480 using direct 3d as opposed to directdraw and better lo-resolutions, will give you the "direct 3d" scaled blurr nasties on the screen? You might clean up the hori axis with the scanlines, but you won't clean up the vertical axis...... however, I''m not sure if using the prescale option will help with this. It does on a LCD.

I'm no MAME and scan convertor "guru".

Hopefully someone like Fudoh will see this and reply.

[Fudoh]

Pretty much a question of configuring MAME the right way. Using the right settings you can get your "blocky" graphics with 480p as well, so that's no problem. Using soft15khz or an ArcadeVGA might be a little bit sharper, but overall you'll still be running into resolutions which are not supported and you have to pay a lot of attention to booting your PC since Soft15hz will only start working when Windows' been booted. Before that your PC will output 31khz which might damage your monitor. Using a scan converter like the Emotia is safe in this aspect of course.

[fagin]

As if by magic!!!

[KBZ]

great! I'm going to go for it then. Can I assume that any Extron RGB after 160 series should do the job? It just needs DDSP mode and option for C-Sync? Beyond that I'll just need to build a BNC to PVM cable and possible an HD15 to DB9 vga cable.

thanks a lot guys.

[fagin]

Don't confuse the RGB with the Emotia!

[Fudoh]

yeah, I lost you there as well. Above you were talking about VGA to RGB using an Emotia and now you're talking about using an Interface for 15khz 480i to 15khz 240p.

[SunJammer]

so if i wanted to get a good 240p signal from a xbox360 connecting to something like a sony PVM-1390 (DB-25 connection, not RGBs) would something like this do the trick?
http://retrogamingcables.co.uk/sony-pvm-scart-convertor

my gut is telling me "no" but figure i'd ask the gurus. Thanks!

[fagin]

That cable won't work on it's own as the 360 outputs 480i etc from RGB SCART. OK it will work to connect to the PVM, but only with a 480i image output. Not 240p.

[KBZ]

Ah ok. So only the emotia will do 31khz to 15khz Whereas the RGB only accepts 15khz inputs.

[Fudoh]

The Emotia does a scan conversion from 31khz to 15khz. The Extron RGB xxx series are RGB interfaces which just pass on their input. They work with both 15 and 31khz, but they don't convert.

[SunJammer]

That cable won't work on it's own as the 360 outputs 480i etc from RGB SCART. OK it will work to connect to the PVM, but only with a 480i image output. Not 240p.

knew it couldn't possibly be that easy
so after reading up a little more on the 240p threads i understand that i would need to work an extron into the chain somehow, but now the question is how to go about it. If i were to connect the 360 to a Sync Strike, would that signal be "ready" for the Extron's razmatazz? Thinking something like this at the moment:

360 > Sync Strike > Extron RGB > PVM

[Fudoh]

yes, that will work fine.

[SunJammer]

so i finally got everything i needed to make this conversion happen, but try as i might i wasn't able to get a stable picture. Any suggestions? I'm running
xbox360 (scart) > sync strike > extron 160xi > sony pvm 20M4U

but the picture barely appears on screen, and what does appear won't stay in sync. If i turn the DDSP switch to "on" the picture is stable, but only about 10 or 20 lines draw right in the middle of the screen. I'm getting a solid light on the sync strike from scart when the system is powered on, but i hooked it up to a 9V PSU just to be safe. My current thought is that the extron unit is faulty, so i ordered a dsub15 to 4BNC cable from monoprice to see if i can get a picture straight from the sync strike. I also have a PS2 scart coming in the mail so i can rule out the xbox cable. The monitor is working fine when connected to my NES via composite. Anything I might have missed? Thanks!