CGA2VGA Scalers questions

[mongusa32]

I know I need the cga2vga scalers to convert my component console systems
to output vga, but beyond that I don't know what else it does. Anyone?

Also I can't seem to find this answered anywhere but does this scaler add
any input lag??? I figured someone would of asked that by now.

[fagin]

Apart from component the device will also accept a RGBs or RGBHV input.

It has a variety of output resolutions.

Inputs can handle 240p, 480i, 480p etc.

Circa 2 frames of processing lag.

This unit uses the same chipset as the HDBOXPro, but the HDBOXPro has a better firmware that allows for video bios deinterlacing. This enables it to handle 240p signals better. In that respect the HDBOXPro is a better unit..... but is only capable of component input.

[mongusa32]

Is there a better cga2vga scaler with less lag these 2?

[fagin]

Certainly... But you could be looking at anything up to ten times the cost.

Something like a XRGB is pretty much zero lag in 480p output mode, but will cost over £300.

[mongusa32]

I was afraid you'd say that. I have a DVDO iScan Duo. But I'm interested
in SLG3000 and need that component/vga to vga without adding more
lag that the Duo gives already.

Can you list a few more scalers you'd recommend despite the high price?
Thanx btw.

[fagin]

Are you only interested in component to VGA? What signals do you need the device to cope with and output to?

[fagin]

DVDO EDGE is a good all rounder. It can give as little as half a frame of lag.

[mongusa32]

I got pc, ps2/3, wii, xbox so mainly component to vga.
Maybe hdmi/dvi to vga for pc sake. Wish the SLG has
more inputs.

[Fudoh]

Can you list a few more scalers you'd recommend despite the high price?

here you'll find almost all of them: http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/

But really, if you already have a Duo, you hardly need anything else. The Duo's gamemode is very fast and if you want to use the SLG3000 with the Duo, just add a HDFury to one of the Duo's HDMI outputs and feed the SLG this way.

[mongusa32]

Thanks for the suggestion. I was wondering since the Duo will be
outputting 1080p, will the SLG still add the same amount of
scanlines for 480p(don't want hd scanlines)??? I don't know
how it works which is why I thought it was better to feed
SLG before sending it to the Duo.

Also what is your opinion on this scaler?:
http://www.ambery.com/rgbcgatovgac.html

I got a reply back from them and they say it's lagfree as long
as the horizontal/vertical frequency is:
Hf=15.734kHz with Vf=60Hz or
Hf=15.625kHz with Vf=50Hz

[mongusa32]

I just looked at the specs for the SLG. It seems it doesn't support
1080p. So I'm guessing I have to output 480p with the Duo. So
last question I guess. Sending a 480p signal to my monitor(1080p)
and having it scale to fullscreen will cause some lag right?

[fagin]

IIRC the SLG has been tested and worked at resolutions far higher than 1080p!

If your looking at proper scanlines (240 lines of video & 240 lines of scan), setting your output of your scaler to 480p (DUO) and feeding the SLG to TV would be the easiest (as Fudoh has suggested). The amount of scaling required by your TV to it's native resolution will be minimal and should not induce any further lag. In my view there is no benefit to feeding the input signal to your DUO with a SLG signal. This would require additional processing (and lag unless something like a XRGB was used) with little to no decernible benefit. The only benefit I have seen is a slight improvement in sharpness, feeding the EDGE a 480p scanlined image and then upscaling that using the EDGE to the native resolution of the target device. It sure for shit isn't worth the hassle though imo.

Any TV associated lag should be minimal (all things being equal - different screens can do different things in this respect) if you feed your TV via the VGA input.

The HDFURY device which is what you will need to transcode from your DUO output (HDMI) to VGA (required by the SLG) will not induce any further lag..... it's transcoding rather than processing.

I have actually tested this through to utter completion for HD inputs.... CONSOLE -> EDGE -> HDFURY3 -> SLG -> VGA2HDMI Transcoder -> HD 1080p TV (HDMI Input). This is to ensure I have a (hopeful) future proof solution, as VGA inputs are now starting to vanish on newer sets. It works fine and I see no difference in processing time over a direct CONSOLE -> EDGE -> TV connection chain.

[Fudoh]

The SLG does support 1080p, but this would result in tiny scanlines which don't resemble the real thing. Displays usually have a fixed processing delay, so it doesn't make a difference if you send 480p or 1080p - the processing lag should be the same.

Also what is your opinion on this scaler?:
http://www.ambery.com/rgbcgatovgac.html

bad. You should be able to find some experience reports here on the board. I remember tearing problems....

[mongusa32]

Thanx very much both of you two. This is all good to know. Just one last question,
so if a hardware device is trascoding a signal, there is most likely no lag involved?

[mongusa32]

Hey Fagin, about your future proof setup, are all vga2hdmi transcoders
created equal? I guess I mean do I have worry about picture quality looking
worse after my Duo processes the signal?

If not, which is the cheapest and best transcoders you recommend? I
appreciate VGA but it is dying and your idea is a good one.

[Fudoh]

Technically VGA to HDMI is not just transcoding. VGA to analogue component or vice very is called color-transcoding. VGA to HDMI can be be lag-free, but this depends on the device. As long as your current TV has got VGA, I wouldn't worry about that, especially since many VGA to HDMI converters have very mediocre quality. A good one is the Gefen VGA to HDMI Scaler, but it's not cheap (or hard to find).

If your current TV has VGA, just get a HDFury and he happy with the setup.

[fagin]

Hey Fagin, about your future proof setup, are all vga2hdmi transcoders
created equal? I guess I mean do I have worry about picture quality looking
worse after my Duo processes the signal?

If not, which is the cheapest and best transcoders you recommend? I
appreciate VGA but it is dying and your idea is a good one.

Yes... various units can vary the quality. The GEFEN unit that Fudoh refers to, looks awesome as regards to a crisp image. The unit I have is fairly cheap.... but does what it needs to do. With the SLG the quality difference is not a problem.

Take a look at the image below...... this is using one mother of a chain and more than what you would be using. It's colour transcoding, A to D converting and all sorts..... yet the final image is great with the SLG in toe. The slight "inner" ringing you see is not there when feeding a monitor directly (don't forget this screen is being captured by a Capture Card with whatever compression that uses etc).

PS2 (SCART RGB) --> Syncblaster --> RGBHV on DVDO EDGE --> (HDMI) HDFURY3 --> SLG3000 --> VGA to HDMI Transcoder --> AVERMEDIA Capture HD (PC) --> DELL 1080p (HDMI)


IMO if you want to use the SLG and also want the image to be as close to CRT as possible, you don't want it pin sharp...... because it sure for shit won't be like that on a CRT. A slight "fuzz" to the hardlines makes it more as per CRT.

The VGA2HDMI box I bought is £55 new and copes with the audio side as well.

[mongusa32]

That looks great Fagin. Btw guys, just curious but which of these two Gefen scalers is
the one your both talking about?
http://www.gefen.com/kvm/dproduct.jsp?prod_id=8915
or
http://www.gefen.com/kvm/dproduct.jsp?prod_id=9892

And one of them is lagless?

[fagin]

The first link is what I suspect Fudoh is referring to as the existing product available.

The second link looks like it hasn't been released yet....... but looks very interesting especially at the price. It appears to do what the other scaler does. Will be interesting to see how it performs.

[Fudoh]

but looks very interesting especially at the price

it's based on the same tech as the other Gefen scalers (which I reviewed). Not worth considering. Gefen's 15->31khz conversion realy isn't up to date.

[mongusa32]

Hey Fudoh, do you have a review you did for the Gefen vga2hdmi transcoder I can read?

[Fudoh]

I have the Gefen VGA to DVI scaler reviewed on my site. It's identical to the VGA to HDMI version (just minus the audio option).

[mongusa32]

umm...what's your site btw?

[ckong]

UH! You don't know fudoh's site!? Shame on you, it's a must read for everyone who has a love for classic gaming!

Allright, here it is: http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/

[mongusa32]

Ah, that one. I didn't know it was Fudohs. Thanx!