SHMUPs and Co-op: Bests and Worsts

[Emuser]

I decided to take a break from Daioh till later tonight, and I've been thinking of a friend that recently passed away and how we used to tackle all kinds of shmups together in co-op runs just for fun. I know most of us don't even play shmups in co-op nowadays but I'm sure there have been times maybe in days long past that we had a buddy or a guest join us for a dual player shooting fest. I ask for those who have tried out this alternative, which just isn't the same with shmups released in recent times, what have been your best and worst co-op experiences?

Raiden is without a doubt a great game for co-op. There was just something about this one that me and my friend would never be able to say no to. Just the music, the atmosphere, the everything that made it super awesome when we'd be able to get to stage 3 before one of us got sniped. Then after that it was still awesome to act like a "guard" and "protect" your ally until he could be powered up again. 1p would be my friend and I'd be 2p, he'd go Red-Missile and I'd go Blue-Homing and it was always a blast. Without a doubt the reason I've recently gotten back into Raiden and probably why I had been playing Daioh just before it was announced on STGT. Hearing Raiden's stage 3 music sometimes brings a tear to my eye thinking about old times when we played it on a real arcade machine, and then many years later on mame. I swear to one day get at least the 1st loop cleared before I die.

Me and him played almost everything imaginable at one point even having a shmup spree playing through tons of shmups in a couple of days. I'd have 100,000 words here if I explained the other great times with co-op I managed to have, but other games we used to play for co-op were Daioh, Thunder Cross(jpn), Truxton II, Trigon/Lighting Fighters(same thing in co-op), Battle Bakraid, Donpachi, and Ketsui. Ketsui was a bit spotty since I'm used to playing it for score but it was fun regardless as a casual getaway diversion. Amazingly enough we survived the 1st loop which can be distracting with someone else flying around in a bullet hell like that.

Shitty co-op experiences included Espgaluda I and II, Daifukkatsu, and most other Cave games. There's too much going on and usually co-op will massively screw something up where unless both people have amazing coordiation with one another, things will actually be harder to handle overall.

In honor of my good friend, I don't know about the other games I mentioned, but I swear that I will get the loop on at least Raiden. It took me a long time to realize it but Raiden is the reason I love shmups today, and if it weren't for that when me and him first played together, I probably wouldn't be the same person that I am today. And maybe I'll do really good on Daioh before weeks end...

[dunpeal2064]

I really like Raiden Fighters and Psikyo games for co-op. I think the lack of in-depth scoring systems makes it work much better.

I absolutely HATE playing any Cave game co-op. I'd rather not play at all.

Not sure how it would work, but it seems like some earlier Raizing stuff (mostly the Yagawa stuff) might not be too bad co-op, but special powerups and medal chaining might not work so well.

Also, pretty much any shooter pre-1995 seems to work well co-op, if it happens to support it. I really enjoy Sonic Wings co-op (more psikyo-esk) and Vapor Trail on the genny is pretty dang fun too.

Ikaruga is only fun for ramming each other into walls.

Hmm... I'd say the best co-op experience might just be Gradius V. That game works brilliantly with 2 people, and is still hard as balls.

As for scoring co-op, I really enjoy Shikigami 2. Its the only shooter where you can still score heavily with a friend without totally breaking the game.

Good topic!

[Jeneki]

There are some shmups with special abilities that can only be used with two players acting in unison (Aero Blasters for example).

Also try some shmups with special defenses that can only be activated every once in a while. Giga Wing, for example: One player uses the reflect barrier, then once it wears off the other player uses their reflect barrier to cover them while it recharges.

[dunpeal2064]

There are some shmups with special abilities that can only be used with two players acting in unison (Aero Blasters for example).

Also try some shmups with special defenses that can only be activated every once in a while. Giga Wing, for example: One player uses the reflect barrier, then once it wears off the other player uses their reflect barrier to cover them while it recharges.

I have never tried Gigawing co-op, but that sounds fun!

Doesn't Gigawing 2 have 4 player co-op? Not sure if its good or not, but its there.

On the contrary, I don't think Mars Matrix would work well at all, as chaining and leveling weapons up wouldn't work as well.

Oh yeah, and then theres Aegis Wing...

[Emuser]

On the note of 4 player co-op, I wish I could try out Darius Burst. It looks amazing and needs like 3 screens lol.

[dunpeal2064]

Oh yeah, that game looks sweet.

I'd love a chance to try out Darius or Darius 2 on their original 3-screen setup. Looks brilliant!

Bio-hazzard Battle is another one that has co-op. Not the best game, but fun enough.

Sexy Parodius is a nice co-op experience, since you get rid of the checkpoints.

[captpain]

i've played giga wing online with someone a few thousand miles away and we still almost cleared it on the first try before it finally crashed. that game can be completely dominated with two competent players.

[abaxas]

Best : Salamander
Worst : no idea.

It's actually a better game as 2p than 1p.

Pick it up for mushepol. Pick it up for nipple eraser.

[Korszca]

Ibara is absolutely abysmal co-op, but Pink Sweets is actually pretty fun as long as the second player is at least somewhat competent in shmups.

[mrsmiley381]

Ikaruga is only fun for ramming each other into walls.

I want to stab my friends every time that happens.

I'll throw in another vote for Raiden. Just don't expect things to go exactly as planned. Things will explode, potentially horrifically.

[emphatic]

Best:
P-47, Silk Worm (I prefer the jeep), Twin Hawk, Aero Fighters 2, 1943 (if a player is low on life, standing on the other player's plane will transfer "life" until you both have the equal amount), Gemini Wing (players can "steal" each others bomb items

Worst:
All CAVE games I have tried so far, ESPGALUDA would be the worst as you can't use Kakusei (the other player's shots won't cancel enemy bullets for example)
Twin Cobra, or any other shmup that let's players scroll the screen from side to side, trapping the other player

Curious, but have never tried in co-op:
DeathSmiles (I can't see how the power-up would screw things up for just blowing stuff up)
ESPGALUDA II Omake!, as you won't need Kakusei to cancel enemy bullets
Thunder Cross and Thunder Cross 2

[Ghegs]

For a long time I've been wanting to do a co-op clear of R-Type on R-Type Dimensions. I can imagine how one player would handle offense, the other defense, taking different lines through the stages so as not to bump into each other...would be damn cool. Sadly the game's netcode isn't that good and finding another R-Type player to play locally with is problematic on its own.

[Blackbird]

My brief experience with Akai Katana co-op was not favorable... your ally could easily deflect bullets right into you whenever he/she does his ninja transformation shenanigans.

[AntiFritz]

Obviously jamestown is a good coop shmup (you can revive and you have a shared score)

[ratikal]

My brief experience with Akai Katana co-op was not favorable... your ally could easily deflect bullets right into you whenever he/she does his ninja transformation shenanigans.

Oh boy, did that happen alot. Pretty comical stuff though.

Cave games in general have shit for co-op mainly because how the screen does that shifting thing. It really disorients you. I know other games have that problem but still. Shmups really are just a 1 man show, 2 player just becomes a bomb fest.

[Blackbird]

To be fair, I haven't played a shooting game that was designed to be a co-op experience from the ground up yet.

Darius Burst and Jamestown may well have superb co-op experiences because they were actually designed around that. However, I cannot speak for them as I haven't played either game.

I do think there is a lot of potential for a good co-op shooting game if it were well designed.

[Naryoril]

imo Deathsmiles is a lot of fun in co-op. The bullets are releatively slow and the characters quite big. Due to this it's much easier to follow what's going on with 2 players than with other Cave games. And the game is easy enough to have fun with it even if the co-op partner has no shoot'em up experience.

[MathU]

R-Type Leo and In The Hunt are right at the top for co-op shooting. You can really feel the love when your partner saves you in the nick of time by shooting a torpedo out of the way.

[grobda]

A touching story there, one of the reasons I love shmups was the 2p aspect, my wingman was(and still is) my younger brother. We played a ton of 1943 when we were kids and I still prefer shmups to have a 2p option even though he now lives in the states. We had a good blast on RF Aces last time I visited him and 1943 on the PSP (wifi play).

Ill give a +1 for silkworm raiden and salamander despite horrendous slowdown. not tried Leo yet. I'd add Last Duel for its car & ship mechanic similar to silkworm, and Blood Money on the Atari ST, which has some fun coin stealing opportunities as well as risks of greed-death.

Away from shmups Joust was always a fave 2p as can be played coop or competetively depending on wether you get pissed off with the other player.

[Alcon]

Detanta TwinBee for 'pushing the other player super shots' & generally barging the other player around (haven't played the others so dunno how much of this they share).

Twin Cobra because it's too hard (for me) with 1 player. Coin feeding through the game in 2 players is great fun.

Outzone & Fixeight for mayhem, and combining Gauntlet style teamwork with a proper shmup energy.

Smash TV for mayhem and 'cover me' tactics.

[ncp]

Ikaruga is only fun for ramming each other into walls.

Absolutely not. While killing each other has provided my roommates and I with hours of entertainment, in my opinion the most entertaining co-op on Ikaruga is when one player goes black and the other goes white, and you never switch. It's really fun, although your partner has to be at least somewhat competent to be able to protect you (and position himself to be protected). Also if you play normal you have to figure out who needs to shoot when. Hard is just too much, though.

[Ruldra]

Pretty much every time I tried playing co-op with someone, it got down to bomb spamming, stealing powerups and killing me for laughs. Not fun

[blackoak]

bump for a great thread. I've been exploring this a lot lately so I'll share some thoughts...

I think playing shmups co-op is a very underrated experience, even for games that were clearly not designed for it (Cave etc). Recently I've been trying to clear Battle Bakraid's normal course with a friend. We died on Gigamanta last night, very close. I actually feel playing the game this way helped me get the 1P Advanced clear a lot quicker... why? Because it helps teach creativity with regard to dodges, and increases familiarity with bullet patterns. It gives you a new perspective... sometimes when I play single player, I'm so focused on doing things a certain way, I ignore a lot of other possibilities. And its great for my newbie friend, who gets to see tap dodging, bullet herding, economized/calm movements, etc in action.

But aside from the improvement angle, its just really fun. Bakraid Normal is super easy 1P (cleared it my first credit), but with 2P its actually somewhat of a challenge. Tandem macro dodging requires a lot of communication and theoretical understanding, but its very cool when it works. Then there's the resource management aspect: getting trapped will happen, so bomb usage and planning is very important. Its just too bad that scoring isn't really an option here, but that doesn't make it an unanalytical experience. That's something I want to stress... a lot of creativity and new approaches are required. Of course, its incredibly important that your friend have the right mindset before going into the game. Jamestown really helped my friends get into shmups, so now they don't flinch or grimace at the idea of a disciplined 1cc, even though the arcade's limited lives format is much harsher than Jamestown's "GET THE ONE!" respawns.

I think certain very dense games would be almost impossible to play 2P (mushi maniac, etc), but the "easier" manics and danmakus have been very fun so far. I'm going to try Dodonpachi, Batrider Normal, and perhaps Mushihimesama Original next. I've also never played many vertizontals other than Jamestown, but those seem ideal for providing screen real estate for 2 players... straight verts really require a lot of discipline in not lurching left and right, which causes the screen to jerk around (and usually slam the other player into a bullet).

[MathU]

I wish I had more people to co-op 2D shooters with... Single-credit clearing arcade games with a teammate is a truly exhilarating experience.

[Squire Grooktook]

I enjoyed playing Gundeadligne netplay on steam with a friend, unfortunately the netcode is so unstable that we cannot play it again without desyncing, no idea how we got it to work in the first place.

I really wish online co op for shmups would start using the GGPO netcode or something analogues. Even the slightest amount of input delay can utterly ruin the experience.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I wish I had more people to co-op 2D shooters with... Single-credit clearing arcade games with a teammate is a truly exhilarating experience.

How hard is it to get MAME working for online play? I'd always be up for that.

[Vyxx]

1943 Kai coop with my buddy Maxlords was some of the most fun I've ever had with a STG.

[To Far Away Times]

DariusBurst works well as a coop shmup. When an ally picks up a powerup, it freezes in place for a few seconds and then you can grab it as well. Lives are shared as well.

Up to four players, and tons of screen real estate.

It's pretty much the perfect multiplayer shmup.

[Kiken]

Both Gradius Gaiden and Gradius V are exceptional when played in co-op (several years ago a local buddy and I had been working on a no-miss 1st loop clear of Gaiden). Giga Wing 2's 4-player mode is absolute lunacy which results in absurd amounts of slowdown. Greng and I have tried R-Type in co-op a couple of times online (how the game structure changes with a second player is really interesting), but yeah... that game's net-code is horrendous. Seisou Kouki Strania is fairly solid in co-op (and it has decent net-code too).

I've always wanted to do a 2-player co-op run of Under Defeat (even though the game ends after the 1st loop in 2-player).

[Cagar]

Best: Akai katana.

How to: Fight with your friend, try to kill him by reflecting bullets. It's fun as hell, there should be some kind of tournament. Akai Katana 2013 -tournament announced.