Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
Oh nice, I forgot all about this. Definitely looking forward to hearing more.
1CC List To miss is human; to rank control, divine.
“Fly to live and shoot ‘em all!” – Manabu Namiki
Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
I wont care about this until they show some screens. Advertising the game as Battle Garrega and Einhänder just to get the fanboys attention wont do it for me.
@Reiker
Just show us some screens man.
@Reiker
Just show us some screens man.
Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
As far as "popular" shmups are concerned, those are both obscure. If they were really trying to attention whore they'd say it's Raiden mixed with Ikaruga or some such nonsense.
Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
Style looks awesome, but releasing a teaser without any gameplay for a game in a genre which is ALL about gameplay is brutal >__<
Looks more like Progear than Garegga in the visuals, by the way.
Looks more like Progear than Garegga in the visuals, by the way.
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denpanosekai
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Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
I'm hoping for 2P mode
Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
i'm looking forward to this
Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
Whar's the gameplayyyyyyyyyy D:
Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
Yeah looks good. Thanks Reiker. I expected a more dark-ish theme though going by the cover art posted earlier. Well I'm a litte bit dissapointed because I expected Garregga and Last Resport style but I can live with that. Overall its looking very good. Like FarCry meets Progear.
Now its all about the gameplay.
Now its all about the gameplay.
Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
"Every genocide has a philosophy"
Nice.
Nice.
Always outnumbered, never outgunned - No zuo no die
ChurchOfSolipsism wrote: ALso, this is how SKykid usually posts
Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
Skykid wrote:"Every genocide has a philosophy"
Nice.
Haha I just noticed that though come on we could atleast have gotten 1 pattern or a huge laser...
Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
Ship design is pretty sweet, I dunno about that big guy at the end though. Can't wait to see gameplay.
1CC List To miss is human; to rank control, divine.
“Fly to live and shoot ‘em all!” – Manabu Namiki
Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
From the teaser I'm loving the art style already. Can't wait to see gameplay.
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mesh control
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Weak Boson
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Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
I'm definitely interested in this. It certainly looks pretty - I'm looking forward to seeing more glimpses of its darkness/weirdness. It all depends on how it plays, of course. Please don't keep us in suspense for too long.
Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
It's purdy, but it's really lacking in the style department, especially since it's being pimped as a Suda 51 title. I watched the SkyDrift trailer after the Sine Mora teaser, and they might as well be the same game.
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TrevHead (TVR)
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Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
Cutscenes are fine but MUST be skippable, dev please take note, if you are making a shmup that is ment to be replayed over a hundred times anything that takes us away from the actual gameplay quickly becomes really annoying, that includes slow and clunky menus. Its common for shooters to have restart in the pause options menu.mesh control wrote:fingers crossed for no cutscenes.
That said im really intrested in this game, I have no idea what experience in STGs the devs have but im not expecting it to be on the same level of perfection as a Cave shmup, as long as it gets the basics right and doenst play like some shitty euroshmup with inertia or undodgable bullets with a healthbar to compensate.
Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
I'm disappointed in the aesthetics, relative to the original promo art.
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BPzeBanshee
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Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
Me too, but I'm more concerned about the gameplay which has yet to be revealed.kid aphex wrote:I'm disappointed in the aesthetics, relative to the original promo art.
Having said that it does currently look nice though. I imagine that possibly the happy happy joy joy graphics are for that particular area only (ie other levels with more Garegga-like environments)?
Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
I love the visuals from the teaser really, very ghibli'esque.
Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
Agree that cutscenes should be skippable, goes without saying really. Drove me nuts in Ikaruga.
I enjoyed the teaser, looks very stylish although perhaps a tad too shiny. This is for XBLA, right?
I enjoyed the teaser, looks very stylish although perhaps a tad too shiny. This is for XBLA, right?
"I've had quite a few pcbs of Fire Shark over time, and none of them cost me over £30 - so it won't break the bank by any standards." ~Malc
Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
Well I admit that stage with the bright green islands WOULD look better with the saturation turned down just a notch.
Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
Actually things start to look pretty dark and gritty when the boss emerges and fires it's LAZOR.
Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
It does look a tad shiny... but for now I'm positive it'll be less noticeable once the gameplay perspective kicks in.
And yeah, some sort of "demo off" setting in the options menu would be very welcome if you're gonna use cutscenes (additional to being skippable). Options are always good.
And yeah, some sort of "demo off" setting in the options menu would be very welcome if you're gonna use cutscenes (additional to being skippable). Options are always good.
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Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
Yes, it is. However, gameplay footage will follow soon - as mentioned earlier, we would like to reach both "casual" players AND the hardcore STG fans, like you - so we have two strictly separate game modes: Story and Arcade....releasing a teaser without any gameplay for a game in a genre which is ALL about gameplay is brutal
…and here we immediately face our greatest challenge regarding the promotion - if we show Arcade footage, the casual crowd will immediately run away, as in its best places the game has almost danmaku-quantity of bullets on the screen, while the Story mode would probably scare away you.
Our goal is to reach the wider audience. The less scary (read: hardcore) the game looks, the better. That's why I'm here, talking to you guys: "damage control".
You're 100% right. Grasshopper Manufacture's original idea for the style was a _lot_ crazier, while my vision was to resurrect Garegga visually. The consensus was that Sine Mora should resemble "The Wings of Honneamise" and "Porco Rosso" - thus it's more like Progear (in places).Looks more like Progear than Garegga in the visuals, by the way.
We do have cutscenes. A _lot_ of them. Good news is, most of them are in the Story mode - and yes, you're able to skip them.fingers crossed for no cutscenes
There is a restart option in the pause menu. It's instant.anything that takes us away from the actual gameplay quickly becomes really annoying, that includes slow and clunky menus. Its common for shooters to have restart in the pause options menu.
No health bar. No euroshooting - that was a promise.doenst play like some shitty euroshmup with inertia or undodgable bullets with a healthbar to compensate.
Exactly.possibly the happy happy joy joy graphics are for that particular area only (ie other levels with more Garegga-like environments)
Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
This all sounds positive, you know what people want to hear.
Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
It honestly really means a lot to see you in here answering questions directly (and it helps that you're able to tell us what we want to hear ). I really appreciate the outreach and interest in your audience.
The more I hear the better. Really you pretty much had a confirmed sale from me at the first mention of Suda as he's one of my favorite people in the gaming industry, but from the outset I was worried the game might be somewhat lacking as a proper shooter. Seems like you have a pretty good grasp on what you're doing here though, so I'm going to allow myself to be somewhat optimistic
Also if there are some sketches floating around of the original, crazier design concepts I would really love to see them. I'm definitely digging the visual style you have going and am a fan of the influences, just curious about what other designs were tossed around.
The more I hear the better. Really you pretty much had a confirmed sale from me at the first mention of Suda as he's one of my favorite people in the gaming industry, but from the outset I was worried the game might be somewhat lacking as a proper shooter. Seems like you have a pretty good grasp on what you're doing here though, so I'm going to allow myself to be somewhat optimistic
Also if there are some sketches floating around of the original, crazier design concepts I would really love to see them. I'm definitely digging the visual style you have going and am a fan of the influences, just curious about what other designs were tossed around.
1CC List To miss is human; to rank control, divine.
“Fly to live and shoot ‘em all!” – Manabu Namiki
Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
Well then, hopefully the gameplay footage is dropped right here, in these forums, first
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BPzeBanshee
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Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
This, minus the completely convinced sale, is my views entirely. I'm glad you're making sure you're getting appropriate feedback from the community.Deca wrote:It honestly really means a lot to see you in here answering questions directly (and it helps that you're able to tell us what we want to hear ). I really appreciate the outreach and interest in your audience.
...
Also if there are some sketches floating around of the original, crazier design concepts I would really love to see them. I'm definitely digging the visual style you have going and am a fan of the influences, just curious about what other designs were tossed around.
The whole Story vs Arcade thing sounds uncannily like Tyrian and I can imagine some of Tyrian's graphics rerendered in 3D looking a lot like what you've got there, so I suppose the impression you'll be giving out in terms of balancing between the audiences is going to be controversial somewhat anyway. So long as the gameplay is good and the backgrounds are excellent you should certainly have a winner.
Not sure about the cutscenes though. I don't think they're nearly as bad as they seem but making them skippable easily is key to making them as least annoying as possible. I have a game project that's on hold and if I put any kind of dialog process in that it would absolutely have to be skippable somehow. The amount of shmup failures stacks up and as a result you're on a relatively tight line of convention you've got to follow there, for that I kinda feel bad for you guys.
Over all I do wish your project well. It looks nice regardless of whether it may be fitting in Progear or Sonic 4 or Avatar as opposed to Battle Garegga, and providing you play your cards right in regards to the actual gameplay it should be at worst moderately successful, if not a huge hit.
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TrevHead (TVR)
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Re: Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)
As the others have said its good when devs communicates with the fanbase in such a frank way, which helps to manage ppls expectations of the game so they arnt instantly turned off when the game doenst look and play exactly like a Cave shooter. Tbh I personally wouldnt want a dev trying to copy Cave verbatim and probably failing like 5pB did with Bullet soul. We have Cave for our danmaku fun, I want other devs to do their own thing.
About your trailers might I suggest that you fully drive home to the player which difficulty level each segment you are showing. While some modern shmups include novice / easy difficulties that have a low bullet density, this is probably totally lost to those watching the trailer since they tend to just show the hardest difficulties or mix in easy parts. It doesnt help that many of the trailers on You Tube are in Japanese as well.
While I have no idea how you intend to handle casual players and market your game, but might I suggest that you make an effort into informing the mainstream into just whats so good about the genre and give them the tools to become better players. This genre has a habit of just dumping arcade ports (with infinite continues) and expecting noobs to fully understand how to play them. While sites like this place are there to inform players (It was when I found this site when I got into the genre) with things like the hitbox,1CC, scoreplay but also bullet dodging techniques (like bullet herding / tap dodging) all this info should be ingame in bite size tutorials. Maybe then we can start to move away from this silly notion that scoreplay / 1CC (or 3CC / 5CC like 16bit console STGs used) is something that only "fans" of the genre will enjoy.
Shmups should be just like other genres like fighters, RTS or FPS games, where casuals and hardcore play by the same rules, rather than the schizophrenic method thats in vogue atm
About your trailers might I suggest that you fully drive home to the player which difficulty level each segment you are showing. While some modern shmups include novice / easy difficulties that have a low bullet density, this is probably totally lost to those watching the trailer since they tend to just show the hardest difficulties or mix in easy parts. It doesnt help that many of the trailers on You Tube are in Japanese as well.
While I have no idea how you intend to handle casual players and market your game, but might I suggest that you make an effort into informing the mainstream into just whats so good about the genre and give them the tools to become better players. This genre has a habit of just dumping arcade ports (with infinite continues) and expecting noobs to fully understand how to play them. While sites like this place are there to inform players (It was when I found this site when I got into the genre) with things like the hitbox,1CC, scoreplay but also bullet dodging techniques (like bullet herding / tap dodging) all this info should be ingame in bite size tutorials. Maybe then we can start to move away from this silly notion that scoreplay / 1CC (or 3CC / 5CC like 16bit console STGs used) is something that only "fans" of the genre will enjoy.
Shmups should be just like other genres like fighters, RTS or FPS games, where casuals and hardcore play by the same rules, rather than the schizophrenic method thats in vogue atm