The future of Cave

[emphatic]

Haven't you got a pcb you've owned for 24hrs to be selling?

Zing!

[mizuiroRSG]

I was just hoping for not only a spiritual sequel to Ketsui, but Mushi 3 and EspRade 2 as well. So, who knows? Crossing my fingers that Akai Katana won't be their last shmup.

So basically everybody is misreading that report. As my wonderful Cave PR rep told me, the fears that Cave are pulling out of console/arcade dev are - his words - "complete bullshit." Essentially, it's just a restructuring. The two departments referred to on page 28 are Asada and Ikeda's consumer game departments, respectively. The teams doing smartphone games/apps are separate. So arcade and consumer dev are still moving ahead.

It also means Ikeda's moving back into a bigger game design position, which makes me happy.

JOURNLOLISM

Hmm...you're right. Sounds like Cave hasn't forgotten that the arcade business sector is their core in its portfolio since the formation. Perhaps there could be a new arcade shmup anytime soon?

Yeah what the hell is going on with Feveron anyway? Wasn't M2 handling the port as well? I don't care for the game but I'm excited any time M2 does anything.

I'm curious what the Japanese response to this news is, can anyone enlighten us?

I've only been able to find two secondary bits of information regarding the Dangun Feveron port--here and here. Essentially, it was going to be an XBLA title if they were satisfied with how Guwange did. Some time later, they said that it hasn't been released due to issues with marketing, and they seemed to no longer be sure of which platform to release it on. Asada mused about putting it on a smartphone.

Dangun Feveron on the smartphone? No way in hell.
The game would just fit perfectly well on XBLA.

[Matskat]

The cries of a million goobers from the west will persuade them otherwise

We get it, you don't like games. So why are you here again?

I'm just posting this while my game is paused, back to it I guess. Haven't you got a pcb you've owned for 24hrs to be selling?

LOL! Kernow always appears when cold hard truth needs dropping.....

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

NAIL.
ON.
THE.
HEAD.

I like this dude...calls a spade a spade....no offense to Vyxx....but he gotcha.
It's like saying TonK works the PCB market like a crack dealer...nothing wrong...just sayin.

[Vyxx]

The cries of a million goobers from the west will persuade them otherwise

We get it, you don't like games. So why are you here again?

I'm just posting this while my game is paused, back to it I guess. Haven't you got a pcb you've owned for 24hrs to be selling?

Well keep playing man, maybe someday you'll make it past the second level in Ibara

[kernow]

Well keep playing man, maybe someday you'll make it past the second level in Ibara

I don't see you scoring 5.7 million and getting to the level 4 boss - maybe if you owned it a little longer eh?

[dinosaurjerk]

they may not be pulling out of arcades and consoles but if someone over there doesn't make an ibara port that doesn't look like a piece of poopoo for a non-phone i will personally walk to yagawa's house and break all his punk 7" records.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

As a gamer who hates how mainstream and soulless games are becoming this generation. However it seems to me that Cave as a company knows that there is nothing stopping them from making BOTH mainstream titles and niche aslong as its profitable as its own thing. The fact they have lots of different departments all doing their own thing shows that Cave will probably continue making arcade or console shmups.

However I dunno if arcade can remain profitable with emulation hot on the heels of their aging hardware. How Cave are currently making their shmups, that is develop for arcade first then console then handheld does work, So myu guess that that they will want to continue that in the future when they move onto new arcade hardware, even if its PC based.

BTW does anyone have an idea how theyre non arcade handheld ports like Bug Panic sold compared to the Iphone arcade ports? My guess is that Bug Panic didint sell anywhere near the likes of Galuda 2 or DDP Resurrection.

[BPzeBanshee]

In this thread, people commit collective suicide prematurely.

To lower the rank, of course.

I'm amazed this thread took off actually, I thought it was obvious that Cave will have a future so long as they don't go the way of Cavedog and bite off more than they can chew.

[Vyxx]

Well keep playing man, maybe someday you'll make it past the second level in Ibara

I don't see you scoring 5.7 million and getting to the level 4 boss - maybe if you owned it a little longer eh?

Owned it for close to a year and now have Kuro

Cheers

[kernow]

Well keep playing man, maybe someday you'll make it past the second level in Ibara

I don't see you scoring 5.7 million and getting to the level 4 boss - maybe if you owned it a little longer eh?

Owned it for close to a year and now have Kuro

Cheers

ah, taking the easy way out

[Vyxx]

ah, taking the easy way out

You want some scores ambre? I don't want to make you cry

[S20-TBL]

In this thread, people commit collective suicide prematurely.

To lower the rank, of course.

It's already so low, the popcorns aren't even showing up and all the tanks have "shoot me" blinking over them.

I'm with you that Cave has a future if they play their cards right, but that is a big "if" which I don't want to speculate on given the kinds of things they're experimenting with lately. They could either rise high or sink to mediocrity.

Moving on now before the rank hits negative so fast, the PCB's power supply trips and the cabinet sends me back to 1985.

[SFKhoa]

Owned it for close to a year and now have Kuro

Cheers

WHAT
Bring that shit to jonny5's place next time

[Matskat]

Ibara....

I love that game, but DAMN it kicks me in the nuts...

Got my highest score ever today... 3.5mil ( :/ )
Of course, I died twice at the level 2 boss...

Best Level 1 run I've ever had...I was at 10k medals by the first 16 medal building! 2 million by the time the level 1 boss' fuselage dropped!

Ibara...beats you like a punk, but you keep asking for more - thinking "It'll be different this time" - like a battered wife....

[BPzeBanshee]

It's already so low, the popcorns aren't even showing up and all the tanks have "shoot me" blinking over them.

I'm with you that Cave has a future if they play their cards right, but that is a big "if" which I don't want to speculate on given the kinds of things they're experimenting with lately. They could either rise high or sink to mediocrity.

Moving on now before the rank hits negative so fast, the PCB's power supply trips and the cabinet sends me back to 1985.

When that baby reaches eighty-eight miles per hour...

Maybe if the universal rank lowers enough Yagawa might actually get a main programmer job and we'll get something like Batrider or Ibara again. Here's hoping anyway.

I mention Cavedog because I think they totally would've wiped out Blizzard had they not bitten off more than they can chew resulting in poor projects and bankruptcy later down the track and not taking off as they should've. This is what concerns me with Cave, along with some of their real incompetent fuckups they seem to consistently come up with (whinge whinge screen can't fill the TV) and some of their quality control issues. I won't even start with the whole SPOT THE BACKGROUND festival that turns off the more senior fans of the genre since that's another topic entirely.

[ancestral-knowledge]

If this is true than it's s sad news.

I have played DDP DFK on Iphone /IPad and XBOX360. It's funny: My girlfriend owns Bug Panic, DDP DFK and Galuda for IPhone/Ipad. My conclusion is that i will never play a shmup on a touchpad. The controls are horrible and you simply can't perform moves efficiently that involve multiple buttons at the same time which are always crucial for achieving good scores on several CAVE games. Therefore the games are generally a lot easier. This goes to the point that even my girlfriend can 1cc DDP DFK on IPhone Mode with ease. But of course she would never play the arcade version because it's soooo hard and unfair....(Funny to add though that she plays Akai Katana to stage 4 where she dies every time and doesn't continue). About every game i have encountered for the Wii, IPhone, Kinect is for complete retards. I can beat all of them by repeating the same move over and over again.

And don't get me started on fu**ing visual novels...

On the other side i don't care. With all the games we already have combined with the depth of the scoring systems these games provide we could play CAVE's games our whole life. They don't have to force themselves to bring new stuff out. I can listen to the first albums of Slayer and Metallica my whole life and i don't care for their new shitty ones. And even if you get bored there are other companies like Raizing etc. you can check out. Let's face it: No company would have to bring out anymore shooters and we still could play the existing ones to the end of time. And maybe it's better to quit while you are at your best (arguably) and not like every metal band that has to release like 4 shitty albums noone likes and then quit anyway. And sometimes in the future... very rarely... there will be a shmup released that will be as good as the old ones (Megadeth's Endgame).

I apologize for the analogy to metal bands.

[Icarus]

Maybe if the universal rank lowers enough Yagawa might actually get a main programmer job and we'll get something like Batrider or Ibara again. Here's hoping anyway.

Ibara, Pink Sweets and MMP! not enough for you?
Well, in all fairness, it's not enough for me too. He needs to head more projects, even if they aren't as popular as Ikeda's works, as his games are always a breath of fresh air. A decent Ibara + Kuro port would be lovely too, but that is wishful thinking.
Quick! We need more Cave fans to commit seppuku!

[BPzeBanshee]

Maybe if the universal rank lowers enough Yagawa might actually get a main programmer job and we'll get something like Batrider or Ibara again. Here's hoping anyway.

Ibara, Pink Sweets and MMP! not enough for you?
Well, in all fairness, it's not enough for me too. He needs to head more projects, even if they aren't as popular as Ikeda's works, as his games are always a breath of fresh air. A decent Ibara + Kuro port would be lovely too, but that is wishful thinking.
Quick! We need more Cave fans to commit seppuku!

I would've gotten Pink Sweets/Muchi Muchi Pork sooner but I was already being paranoid getting ESPGaluda II. I plan on getting that eventually but chances are it'll probably end up going all rare and costing shitloads again by the time I actually get around to it. I really do think his works are a great alternative from what Cave normally produces since it's practically Raizing with Cave infused, so always a great piece of work.

[Skykid]

Hmm...

Well, not surprised. I pointed out that Mushi 1.5 and the AK LE PCB's they produced appeared to be a bid to sell through the last of their SH3 stock.

But this is a big blow for arcades, which are sucking shit more and more every day, if they're aren't closing down. I always felt Cave's arcade development encouraged other small developers to keep releasing arcade shmups too. The entire scene will surely die a death now.

For Cave, they will either find harmony as a developer on social and ios platforms, releasing the odd new shmup for consoles and never really growing much as a company, or they'll branch out and take risks in an attempt to move into new genres and probably completely nosedive, go bankrupt and go out of business.

Either way, a line has been drawn for their arcade development. All you fuckers who sold off your Ketsui PCB's for dirt cheap can start regretting it about... *looks at watch*... now.

[Sumez]

Wait, dirt cheap Ketsui, what? where?

[Bananamatic]

Wait, dirt cheap Ketsui, what? where?

mame

[Sumez]

I'm not falling for your flamebait

[Skykid]

Wait, dirt cheap Ketsui, what? where?

mame

Lol

[MauJustice]

I'd rather they go with full blown digital distribution via XBLA or Steam. I'm not a big fan of Shmups on Iphone.

[spadgy]

I think they may stick to some kind of console/PC/arcade development to maintain the brand value that now gets them global press coverage and so on.

Just like the way these days a lot of print magazines loose money, but are kept alive to lend credibility and status to the title's website.

Anyway, I might be interviewing Cave again (hopefully I'll have a touch more luck with getting info out of them now they are more globally facing ) next month, so I can ask them direct.

[Skykid]

I think they may stick to some kind of console/PC/arcade development to maintain the brand value that now gets them global press coverage and so on.

Yes, but that brand value (or identity) is built on the back of being a last surviving developer of niche Japanese shmups that are notable for their excellence in danmakudom. The fact they still released arcade games of this kind, and single handedly pioneered the modern bullet hell-em-up, is mostly reason they gained such notoriety and recognition in the west.

I don't think now is the best time to pull the plug on it, now that interest is beginning to spark outside of domestic territory. It's not like they're that well known outside of Japan: western audiences certainly aren't ready to fully embrace Xbox 360 shmups, horse racing titles or Instant Brain. And if they think they're going to start peddling kiddies to the west, they're in for a bit of a shock.

That said, if the arcade business isn't making them any money, I can sympathise.

[spadgy]

I think they may stick to some kind of console/PC/arcade development to maintain the brand value that now gets them global press coverage and so on.

Yes, but that brand value (or identity) is built on the back of being a last surviving developer of niche Japanese shmups that are notable for their excellence in danmakudom. The fact they still released arcade games of this kind, and single handedly pioneered the modern bullet hell-em-up, is mostly reason they gained such notoriety and recognition in the west.

Absolutely. I should have put emphasis on the 'arcade' part of my post quoted above. That's why I suspect they'll stick to the odd bit of arcade development.

Also, it would seem to me like arcade would be the ideal place to debut (and establish the reputation of) new Cave shmup IP. I imagine they wouldn't have made much on Mushi Bug Panic or DFK iPhone if they weren't from well loved series with arcade roots.

[Skykid]

I think they may stick to some kind of console/PC/arcade development to maintain the brand value that now gets them global press coverage and so on.

Yes, but that brand value (or identity) is built on the back of being a last surviving developer of niche Japanese shmups that are notable for their excellence in danmakudom. The fact they still released arcade games of this kind, and single handedly pioneered the modern bullet hell-em-up, is mostly reason they gained such notoriety and recognition in the west.

Absolutely. I should have put emphasis on the 'arcade' part of my post quoted above. That's why I suspect they'll stick to the odd bit of arcade development.

Also, it would seem to me like arcade would be the ideal place to debut (and establish the reputation of) new Cave shmup IP. I imagine they wouldn't have made much on Mushi Bug Panic or DFK iPhone if they weren't from well loved series with arcade roots.

Which is precisely why jettisoning their arcade R&D might be suicide. Surely it's the area which drums up the primary interest for their console release?

We'll see. If the brand is actually strong enough, then the domestic 360 user base might still go for their latest releases. I'm expecting to see their shmups begin to move into polygonal territory though, which will probably be a turnoff for the long term fan.

But I don't think they can make a dent in the western market with shmups alone, so unless they have a whole new skill set in other genre's tucked away somewhere, it could be a slow and painful death of a talented developer.

I'm optimistic of course.

[KNTain]

So basically everybody is misreading that report. As my wonderful Cave PR rep told me, the fears that Cave are pulling out of console/arcade dev are - his words - "complete bullshit." Essentially, it's just a restructuring. The two departments referred to on page 28 are Asada and Ikeda's consumer game departments, respectively. The teams doing smartphone games/apps are separate. So arcade and consumer dev are still moving ahead.

It also means Ikeda's moving back into a bigger game design position, which makes me happy.

Are you saying that page 28 only talks about consumer game development?

[Deca]

so unless they have a whole new skill set in other genre's tucked away somewhere

They're going back to their original passion, and making another attempt at the common goal they all shared coming out of Toaplan...to make the greatest snowboarding game of all time. This time they're deadly serious and are completely restructuring in order to better accommodate its development.