Lagless Emulators

[Arcade Legends 3]

ShmupMAME is a great emulator - it brings the lag for a small amount of games to 1 FPS.
Now I am wondering if any other emulator is lagless? And more definitely if Gens32 Surreal emulates at 0 FPS.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Most accurate emulators should (by definition) emulate the input lag exactly as is on the original hardware. In Kega Fusion and Ootake, to name a few, you can mesure input lag step-frame way and it depends on a game. For instance, Dungeon Explorer runs at 30 fps with one frame of delay, whereas Dungeon Explorer II runs at 60 fps with four frames of delay which takes twice as much time. That's why II runs visually smoother, but is less responsive than its predecessor.

[PsikyoFan]

ShmupMAME is a great emulator - it brings the lag for a small amount of games to 1 FPS.
Now I am wondering if any other emulator is lagless? And more definitely if Gens32 Surreal emulates at 0 FPS.

:facepalm:

It's

A

Hack.

ShmupMAME is a magic trick - artificially overcompensating by mauling the emulation to paper over limitations of the PC platform.

[BPzeBanshee]

ShmupMAME is a great emulator - it brings the lag for a small amount of games to 1 FPS.
Now I am wondering if any other emulator is lagless? And more definitely if Gens32 Surreal emulates at 0 FPS.

:facepalm:

It's

A

Hack.

ShmupMAME is a magic trick - artificially overcompensating by mauling the emulation to paper over limitations of the PC platform.

[evil_ash_xero]

I don't think there are any fully lagless emulators. Best you're gonna get is 1 frame. Which is good, but not lagless. Emulation....great, but...not perfect.

ShmupMAME is a great emulator - it brings the lag for a small amount of games to 1 FPS.
Now I am wondering if any other emulator is lagless? And more definitely if Gens32 Surreal emulates at 0 FPS.

:facepalm:

It's

A

Hack.

ShmupMAME is a magic trick - artificially overcompensating by mauling the emulation to paper over limitations of the PC platform.

It works though.

[Obiwanshinobi]

I don't think there are any fully lagless emulators. Best you're gonna get is 1 frame. Which is good, but not lagless. Emulation....great, but...not perfect.

If the games lag on the real thing (as they virtually always do), perfect emulation replicates just that. Eliminate Down on kega Fusion lags one frame (which I believe to be faitfhul to its original input delay) during a run, but in the menus you sometimes get 0 frames of lag (which I also believe to be accurate).
There are other sources of real time lag on any setup, but these are not related to the emulation as such.

[raigon50]

When I run Dogyuun on vanilla MAME, I actually get sound, but at the cost of occasional lag. I've tried a lot of frontends, but they all either play without the sound or just don't play at all. I don't know why they do this, but it's kinda annoying. Anyone know of a frontend that can play Dogyuun without the lag and with the sound?

[evil_ash_xero]

I don't think there are any fully lagless emulators. Best you're gonna get is 1 frame. Which is good, but not lagless. Emulation....great, but...not perfect.

If the games lag on the real thing (as they virtually always do), perfect emulation replicates just that. Eliminate Down on kega Fusion lags one frame (which I believe to be faitfhul to its original input delay) during a run, but in the menus you sometimes get 0 frames of lag (which I also believe to be accurate).
There are other sources of real time lag on any setup, but these are not related to the emulation as such.

Interesting.

[Ganelon]

Computers likely lag more than the consoles but when everything is ideal—definitely not a given on most setups, esp. anything above Win XP—the microseconds of delay don't translate into a frame of input delay in the game. Many times, something still feels wrong with the speed though. However, if you're not playing seriously and/or competitively, there's not much difference between 0 additional lag and a frame or 2 of lag.

[Obiwanshinobi]

It's like flogging a dead horse at this point, but apparently PS3 lags 3 frames no matter what (i.e. devs can do nothing about it, only Sony can but they don't care). Somebody claimed something along those lines about Dreamcast too, but I'm not sure how serious (or knowledgeable) he was about it. Either way, I'm pretty sure my PC isn't handicapped like that.
As for the speed, GBA emulation is infamous for CPU timing issues rendering Rhythm Tengoku unplayable on emulators.

[dpful]

I wouldn't mind a list of the WORST emulators (lagwise) (Nes snes genesis turbografx etc...) so I could avoid them. It seems like I remember noticing laggy feelings.

[BPzeBanshee]

It's like flogging a dead horse at this point, but apparently PS3 lags 3 frames no matter what (i.e. devs can do nothing about it, only Sony can but they don't care). Somebody claimed something along those lines about Dreamcast too, but I'm not sure how serious (or knowledgeable) he was about it. Either way, I'm pretty sure my PC isn't handicapped like that.
As for the speed, GBA emulation is infamous for CPU timing issues rendering Rhythm Tengoku unplayable on emulators.

I find when it comes to GBA emulation NO$GBA is the only one that actually feels like a real GBA, which is a big deal to me considering the nostalgia trip for playing games like Pokemon Sapphire were my foray into gaming period. VisualBoyAdvance and them may have more functionality (ie sprite hacking tools and netplay multiplayer for link cable support) but whenever I've tried them they always feel like they're on some sort of stupid frameskip thing regardless of what I do to the settings. I do suspect it's something to do with how I configure it and how others configure it however, so I get that impression, therefore I don't often speak of it because I know I'm probably wrong.

Also, the three frames of lag on PS3 controllers shits me off like nothing else, and it's so damn obvious when you've got a homebrew setup running MAME games on it. Play ESPRade for example which has three frames of emulated input lag + the PS3 controller's own = agony. I wouldn't dare try Battle Bakraid or those ones Nimitz had listed as already having 6 frames of emulated lag by default. :S

[Despatche]

When I run Dogyuun on vanilla MAME, I actually get sound, but at the cost of occasional lag. I've tried a lot of frontends, but they all either play without the sound or just don't play at all. I don't know why they do this, but it's kinda annoying. Anyone know of a frontend that can play Dogyuun without the lag and with the sound?

It's because sound wasn't added to MAME until recently. In other words, there really isn't a way yet.

[Arcade Legends 3]

I've got it. It is possible the gameplay to be exactly the same despite that there is lag. And about Genesis Kega Fusion does things right.

[Ex-Cyber]

three frames of lag on PS3 controllers

Assuming that claim is accurate, I think it's imposed by the GPU pipeline and not the controllers.

[BPzeBanshee]

three frames of lag on PS3 controllers

Assuming that claim is accurate, I think it's imposed by the GPU pipeline and not the controllers.

However it's introduced is irrelevant to the noticable delay when using a PS3, though it'd make sense that the delay is something to do with the GPU's delay. Personally I suspect it's something to do with the PS3 controllers being run on Bluetooth but that wouldn't explain why the Wii Remotes on a Wii work just fine.

Either way it's clear Sony won't do anything about it.

[Arcade Legends 3]

Do these classic compilations - like "Capcom Classics Collection Vol. 2" - differ from the original gameplay of the uprights?
After I realized the meaning of the inproper representation of gameplay, want only the true thing.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Do these classic compilations - like "Capcom Classics Collection Vol. 2" - differ from the original gameplay of the uprights?

Those collections are a mixed bag (Capcom screwed up the Mega Man/Rockman collection badly around that time, but Capcom Generations 1-5 are probably as close to the real thing as they get on PSX/PS2).
I can recommend: for the PS2 - Sega Ages Monster World, Fantasy Zone and Treasure Box collections, for the PSX - Namco Museum 1-5 + Encore, Capcom Generations 1-5,, Sunsoft's Memorial Series, R-Types, Zanac X Zanac (you should play Zanac Special Version), for either PSX of Saturn - Konami's Deluxe Packs, Konami Antiques MSX Collection and Irem's Image Fight/X-Multiply pack.

[BIL]

Do these classic compilations - like "Capcom Classics Collection Vol. 2" - differ from the original gameplay of the uprights?

As mentioned, the quality of compilation discs on last and current-gen systems varies widely. Both CCC discs are emulation by Digital Eclipse, and lack tate which may be a deal-breaker for vertical screen games. The only games I've played much in those discs are Final Fight and Forgotten Worlds (Vol.1), and Magic Sword and 1941: Counter Attack (Vol.2). All play fine, lack of tate for 1941 aside. Forgotten Worlds of course doesn't control quite like the arcade since you've not got a rotary joystick.

Many of the notable games in the CCC discs are available on the five Capcom Generation discs for PS1/Saturn, in true low res and with tate for the vertical games, or standalone like Captain Commando and Strider on the PS1.

Irem's Image Fight/X-Multiply pack.

On both PS1 and Saturn, the games will be noticeably cropped on all four sides resulting in invisible enemies.

[Arcade Legends 3]

Now I will become dissapointed with MAME, too.
I should look for a multi-game machine.

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

I find when it comes to GBA emulation NO$GBA is the only one that actually feels like a real GBA, which is a big deal to me considering the nostalgia trip for playing games like Pokemon Sapphire were my foray into gaming period.

... Pokemon RSE is now considered nostalgic...? nooooooo when did this happen... I don't want to be an oldfag yet

[Ganelon]

ST on CCC2 has 3-4 frames of additional input lag, has a slightly faster speed, and comes with rare bugs—besides those in training mode—that produce strange effects like aerial moves that shouldn't happen. Having spent little time on the other games, I'm not qualified to speak about them, but before anyone thinks the rest of CCC2 is perfect, someone ought to test them. They're all great for casual play though.

[BIL]

I bought CCC2 knowing about the ST debacle, but as with CCC1 I literally got it for two games. I've ALLed 1941 without noticing any input problems / bugs. Haven't noticed any issues with Magic Sword (admittedly that's a much more complex game).

Otherwise, yeah, I wouldn't put much faith in the rest of the disc without extensive testing. Or CCC1 for that matter, outside of Final Fight and Forgotten Worlds.

[yojo!]

The King of Dragons has one major bug in CCC2 on PS2. If you let the attract mode go on for a couple of miutes and then start a game then the music get messed up:The attract sound won't stiop playing while you are hacking and slashing your way through. This is pretty messed up and makes you wonder how it even went through Product Assaurance as is.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Irem's Image Fight/X-Multiply pack.

On both PS1 and Saturn, the games will be noticeably cropped on all four sides resulting in invisible enemies.

Doesn't make the ports innacurate. I assume your average SDTV just can't handle that specific resolution wery well, but all pixels seem to be there (same with DDP DOJ and Espgaluda on the PS2).
If I remember correctly, you can pause each game at any time and adjust the screen position as needed.

[BIL]

Doesn't make the ports inaccurate? Have fun getting shot in the face and rammed by offscreen enemies the developers intended you to see coming. Neither system can display the entire playing area. The best you can do is choose the least damaging blind spots for a given moment. That's a way bigger problem than a lack of tate or interlacing.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Neither system can display the entire playing area.

The systems output the whole picture. It's the TVs that don't display it. In a way, the ports are too accurate for comfort.
There should be some downscaled or rearranged mode, sure, but technically the ports are faithful.

[BIL]

Name a display that'll render the entire playfields in those ports visible. Seriously. Otherwise that unseen playing area is as much of an asset as a screen door on a submarine. They're flawed ports as long as you're stuck with blind spots.

[evil_ash_xero]

I know there is some slight lag in the games on Virtual Console. It's not very noticable.

However, is there less with the emulators that you can download on the Homebrew Channel? I've been using those too, and haven't really compared...but I am interested if anyone knows for sure.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Name a display that'll render the entire playfields in those ports visible.

I'm pretty sure displaying the whole overscan is an option some modern TVs have. Of course with LCDs gone are the aesthetical benefits of these ports being "pixel perfect" and you get more lag.