Why modern anime sucks nowadays?

[Udderdude]

This is so moe~ guys check it out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn3XgkurOgE

[Obiwanshinobi]

Just watched 61st Gintama episode, thus finishing the Benizakura saga. Some beautiful sword- and gunfighting, there. Good to see they didn't compromise everything else too much like they did in the "monster episodes", when Kagura's dad visited her. There's One Piece level stuff going on (knowing how nasty One Piece villians can be, I don't make such comparisons lightly - very few works of fiction come close in this regard and for me Gintama just went there).

[Observer]

This is so moe~ guys check it out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn3XgkurOgE

This is the best motherfucking thing I've seen in a while. Thank you so damn much!!!!!!!!! So moe, hehehe.

edit: holy shit, this thing is so damn hardcore, lol. But has this distinct old school animation and feeling I love.

[xbl0x180]

It doesn't change the fact Lucky Star is pretty much the bottom-of-the-barrel stuff members have been talking about in reference to moe and its effect on anime nowadays.

What fact? You don't know what the show really is because you didn't watch it - that's more of a fact.

It's also a fact members here (and the news article posted here) have written on this topic that the moe-themed shows are the bottom-of-the-barrel stuff responsible for the decline in the quality of Japanese animation.

Again, I'm just not that interested in shows about little girls (unless it's something classic/good, like Heidi Of The Alps, Perrine, and Candy Candy).

Calling Lucky Star characters "little girls" is about as accurate as calling women in their twenties "old ladies". I don't know where you got the idea. It's a show about female geeks - that's the hook. I'd say Nadesico (rather than Evangelion or Tenchi Muyo!) was the forerunner of it.

They look like little girls to me... "moeblobs" hahah. There are so many ways to draw young women and this is the way they depict them?

In the 2000s:




Looks moe to me as compared to...

In the 90s:



In the late 80s/early 90s:

[Obiwanshinobi]

It's also a fact members here (and the news article posted here) have written on this topic that the moe-themed shows are the bottom-of-the-barrel stuff responsible for the decline in the quality of Japanese animation.

While more people on here than just you have precious little idea what they are talking about, most of them appear careful enough to not give away their ignorance by dwelling on particular shows they haven't watched.
As for quality of Japanese animation per se, Lucky Star has got consistently good animation. Spice & Wolf is a poorly animated show if you need a recent example.

They look like little girls to me... "moeblobs" hahah. There are so many ways to draw young women and this is the way they depict them?

They look cartoony and as such have a bit "chibi" proportions. This way of drawing cartoony characters is neither exclusive for Japanese animation, nor anything new.
Lucky Star designs remind me of this a bit:



Took me a while to put my finger on it and I'm not finding any example of that artist's style online that would ilustrate my point better, but especially Konata and Miyuki look like characters he could've possibly drawn.

[xbl0x180]

While more people on here than just you have precious little idea what they are talking about, most of them appear careful enough to not give away their ignorance by dwelling on particular shows they haven't watched.
As for quality of Japanese animation per se, Lucky Star has got consistently good animation. Spice & Wolf is a poorly animated show if you need a recent example.

I'm not really "dwelling" on Lucky Star. You were the one who focused on it like a laser in your response to a post I made on moe animation in general. Also, to be clear, when I wrote "quality of Japanese animation," I meant quality as a whole: chara designs, music, plot... as well as the smoothness of the actual animation. Lucky Star's designs blow in comparison to, say, Takada Yuzo's for Blue Seed.



I don't care how consistent the animation is when the characters look like this:



It may not be a bona fide moe cartoon, but it sure as hell looks like it. In a medium that is primarily, secondarily, etc. visual, how something looks is a big deal. If there's a good show hiding behind these s****y designs, I wouldn't know... or care.

They look like little girls to me... "moeblobs" hahah. There are so many ways to draw young women and this is the way they depict them?

They look cartoony and as such have a bit "chibi" proportions. This way of drawing cartoony characters is neither exclusive for Japanese animation, nor anything new.
Lucky Star designs remind me of this a bit:



Took me a while to put my finger on it and I'm not finding any example of that artist's style online that would ilustrate my point better, but especially Konata and Miyuki look like characters he could've possibly drawn.

Nah, that's a red herring. Moe isn't "chibi," of course. And, while I've not seen a full episode of the show, the designs for Lucky Star are made to look like a moe cartoon.

[BIL]

This is so moe~ guys check it out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn3XgkurOgE

Haha, haven't seen that in years. kawaii desu ne~! ^_^;

[Udderdude]

Cute girls doing cute things~ ^_^; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWKRBZXfNdI

[Observer]

Cute girls doing cute things~ ^_^; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWKRBZXfNdI

[Udderdude]

[Blackbird]

This is so moe~ guys check it out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn3XgkurOgE

What did I just watch =P? Gotta love those 90's "everyone dies" anime series, haha.

[Barrakketh]

So what? It doesn't change the fact Lucky Star is pretty much the bottom-of-the-barrel stuff members have been talking about in reference to moe and its effect on anime nowadays. Dragon Ball didn't do that.

Speaking of DBZ and Lucky Star...

Actually, Dragon Ball kicked arse back then and, most definitely, it kicks arse now.

What bizarre universe did you come from?

Cute girls doing cute things~ ^_^; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWKRBZXfNdI

Cute girl doing cute things

[xbl0x180]

So what? It doesn't change the fact Lucky Star is pretty much the bottom-of-the-barrel stuff members have been talking about in reference to moe and its effect on anime nowadays. Dragon Ball didn't do that.

Speaking of DBZ and Lucky Star...

Actually, Dragon Ball kicked arse back then and, most definitely, it kicks arse now.

What bizarre universe did you come from?

Unfortunately, it's the same universe where you'd have to question that... and this has become the norm:

[Randorama]

I wonder if all these anime with moe characters are actually watched by kids. In that case, the increase of "cute series" would be connected to the lowering of average age of anime consumers, as well as an attempt to attract girls. Of course, it would also cater to pedophiles and other "non-target" demographics, as an unwelcome side-effect. I guess that the decreased relevance of other demographics in the current anime market is what make locals cringe, given the title of this topic (and, of course, the lack of white supremacist shit).

I found Lucky Star weird, as often times we (me and my gf) felt it was a show for geeky late teenagers, drawn to also cater witty kids and pedophiles. At times I thought it was an all-female (geeky) version of "Peanuts", the original moeblob. I was really turned off by the girls' looks, to be honest, too kawai.

[Obiwanshinobi]

I'm not really "dwelling" on Lucky Star.

Oh but you do. I'm pretty sure greg was refering to the likes of Sky Girls (which I didn't watch, but he'd complained about it along those lines in some other thread). For a reason unclear to me you went out of your way to imply Lucky Star fits his description, which is bullshit. You, sir, are making sounds of trying to hard.

Nah, that's a red herring. Moe isn't "chibi," of course.

Red herring it is not. Lucky Star designs remind me of that artist's style most, of all things.
There are chibi (not quite SD, but things like big eyes, rounded limbs etc.) traits of design intended to make the characters look more likeable, but it's been around for far longer than the word moe exists. A western example of "adult" designs with child-like traits is the art of Vaughn Bodé from the last century's seventies.

And, while I've not seen a full episode of the show, the designs for Lucky Star are made to look like a moe cartoon.

SNK's Athena is designed to look like a moe cartoon: 1986 (1, 2), 2006. Lucky Star girls are nowhere near.

[xbl0x180]

I'm not really "dwelling" on Lucky Star.

Oh but you do. I'm pretty sure greg was refering to the likes of Sky Girls (which I didn't watch, but he'd complained about it along those lines in some other thread). For a reason unclear to me you went out of your way to imply Lucky Star fits his description, which is bullshit. You, sir, are making sounds of trying to hard.

Nope. If you read back on this topic, I wasn't the one focused on it until you opted to do so. I'm just replying to your posts... in which you still opt to single out this moe cartoon. Hell, you could've chosen to discuss Azumanga, K-On!, Strike Witches, or any other sort of moe drek. It's almost as if you were playing devil's advocate because I've always read the title Lucky Star in the same sentence as "moe." Hell, there's even two or three NDS video games with that exact title. I feel as if I'm taking crazy pills here. Of course this cartoon is moe! It is soooo moe that the next season will feature Konata and co. as uberkawaii zygotes and blastulas - true moeblobs! Hahah.

Nah, that's a red herring. Moe isn't "chibi," of course.

Red herring it is not. Lucky Star designs remind me of that artist's style most, of all things.
There are chibi (not quite SD, but things like big eyes, rounded limbs etc.) traits of design intended to make the characters look more likeable, but it's been around for far longer than the word moe exists. A western example of "adult" designs with child-like traits is the art of Vaughn Bodé from the last century's seventies

Oh, it's a red herring. You're the one who singled out this cartoon and went on to discuss its merits, so it doesn't make sense to bring out other cartoons that are not the cause of this discussion. This is totally different than Tonari No Totoro... neither Mafalda, nor Nancy, Little Audrey and Little Lulu... nor Junkwaffle, nor Chibi Maruko-chan and Crayon Shin-chan, etc. are the cause of complaints and observations about the state of anime and manga fandom with regards to some men's creepy choice of anime and manga story archetypes. It's not just me stating it. Check this out:

http://www.comixology.com/articles/265/ ... -the-Child

Some pages back in this same topic, there was a post that quoted an article about the "average male otaku" watching cartoons about little girls while the "average female otaku" watches cartoons about robots and other cool s**t. I immediately got this picture in my head:

And, while I've not seen a full episode of the show, the designs for Lucky Star are made to look like a moe cartoon.

SNK's Athena is designed to look like a moe cartoon: 1986 (1, 2), 2006. Lucky Star girls are nowhere near.

You can refer to it however you want, it's still a moe cartoon just like the rest of that crap. In a way, it's probably best to refer to it as "moe" since it's not as perverted as lolicon. Man, and here I thought tentacle pr0n was bad; it almost looks kitsch now

[Obiwanshinobi]

If you read back on this topic, I wasn't the one focused on it until you opted to do so.

I'm talking about Lucky Star because I watched it, therefore I know what I'm talking about. As for your alleged lack of focus on it:

Dunno, man, I hope those who use the buzzword "moeblob" actually have any idea about the popular shows out there. In Lucky Star, for instance, maybe half of the female cast have some moe points. Certainly NOT Konata, not Kagami, neither the American girl nor the porn-drawing meganekko - basically the geeky types. What's moe about geeks? Not much it seems. K-On!, on the other hand, is practically made of moe service.

There's a difference between a show that features moe characters and a show that is essentially just a collection of moe characters and little else. It's been established that there definitely is a list of stereotypical moe personalities, and it's like you can just put them up on a wall, throw darts at the stereotypes to choose them, then insert them into a show where nothing really happens. Episode 1: a trip to the hotspring! Episode 2: Who's bra is this? The cups are big! Episode 3: Homework is boring! Episode 4: Let's go to the beach! Blah blah blah. The moe element is what drives the show, not the show's plot.

That being said, I am a bit interested in Lucky Star, and I've had several people tell me that I may like it.

You just described this crap:

As if all that spamming away was needed to make clear to everybody how little you care about it... Keep up the good work.

[CIT]

Here's some of the "recent" Anime I've watched recently:

- Eden of the East
- Shigurui
- Black Lagoon
- Michiko e Hatchin
- Darker Than Black

None of it was moemoe, overly cute or insufficiently heterosexual, and they were all really enjoyable series, so I'd say, Anime is actually pretty good these days.

[originalz]

In the 2000s:




Looks moe to me as compared to...

In the 90s:



In the late 80s/early 90s:

You can really see how the quality of art has declined in recent years. Older shows had such beautiful shading to the characters, they looked more "adult" in terms of proportions and face design. Newer shows just look so...flat, there's barely any shading. I know a lot of this is due to the prevalence of using computers and not hand-drawing anything anymore, there's no soul to it.

Even "mature" modern shows suffer from this, the distinct character designs just aren't there anymore.

[xbl0x180]

If I were to refer to modern anime as "animu" in this instance, it is meant to be as a derisive term.

[Siren2011]

You can really see how the quality of art has declined in recent years. Older shows had such beautiful shading to the characters, they looked more "adult" in terms of proportions and face design. Newer shows just look so...flat, there's barely any shading. I know a lot of this is due to the prevalence of using computers and not hand-drawing anything anymore, there's no soul to it.

Dude, you are so on the mark it isn't even funny. I've been saying the same thing for years, and I felt crazy because I seemed to be the only one who was complaining. Darker Than Black and Elfen Lied, while certainly both mature in terms of dark themes and narrative, have characters who look like bland trailer trash in comparison to old stuff with a greater emphasis on shading and detail. Slayers, Tenchi Muyo (I hate the show's story, just using it as an example.), Burn Up, Gunbuster, Gunsmith Cats, Dirty Pair, Trigun, Berserk, and the list goes on and on. I would go so far as to say most modern anime fans probably can't stand this kind of animation, because it looks grittier and not as light-hearted as the stuff being produced now. I met someone who loves Kare Kano, Negima, and all of those pandering shows, but turned his nose up to Berserk because "it looked too morbid."

Like Never_Scurred mentioned earlier, the death of mature themes has really wounded the medium as well. It's not just aesthetics that have deteriorated.

[Obiwanshinobi]

You can really see how the quality of art has declined in recent years. Older shows had such beautiful shading to the characters, they looked more "adult" in terms of proportions and face design. Newer shows just look so...flat, there's barely any shading.

That's 1981 for ya. Where was your adult design, detail and shading again?
Lucky Star is a case of keeping the character design simple for the sake of animation complexity (which is way superior to your average old TV show). For the very same reason you don't see all that many details and shading on the Cat Soup characters.
Spam this away all you want, but that's just the opening. After that, there are some impressive boobshots of Plastic Little quality in the first episode, but on the balance that OAV is not extraordinarily well animated.

[Siren2011]

Lucky Star is a case of keeping the character design simple for the sake of animation complexity (which is way superior to your average old TV show). For the very same reason you don't see all that many details and shading on the Cat Soup characters.

So wait a minute. Are you saying that the more complex the animation sequences (body movements such as twirling in the air dodging bullets in slow motion, transforming robots, etc.), the more an excess of details make the show look rigid and unconvincing? Or are complex animations possible with shading and extreme attention to detail, but the artists are just lazy because it takes loads of extra work (I know next to zilch about the animation process.)?

[Obiwanshinobi]

When the show is being planned, the producers don't usually have unlimited budget, time and manpower at disposal, therefore the artistic direction is a matter of reasonable compromise. Simpler characters are less laborious to animate, so if you choose to express stuff by motion rather than stills (not just the combat etc., but also facial expressions, gestures and the likes), the characters can't be too detailed or else you won't make it in time.
I don't like the character designs of Soul Eater and Darker than Black an awful lot, but as long as the animation is of uncompromised BONES quality, I let it slide. That said, BONES have been always going the motion over detail route.
In the aforementioned Sakura Tsuushin, once the eye-catching opening animation's over and the boobs are clothed, you get to see plenty of this. Not bad by any means, but boy, is it static (the price they payed for detailed designs). On the other hand, Lucky Star does dialogue scenes like that - you get to see more stuff in motion.
I'm pretty sure the industry doesn't accept laziness either way. At least in Japan the artists must be working like dogs to make a living.

[ryu]

well, lucky star was produced by kyoto animation so ..

their haruhi movie has a scene with tons of detail of a character flipping a pencil multiple times.

[xbl0x180]

You can really see how the quality of art has declined in recent years. Older shows had such beautiful shading to the characters, they looked more "adult" in terms of proportions and face design. Newer shows just look so...flat, there's barely any shading.

That's 1981 for ya. Where was your adult design, detail and shading again?
Lucky Star is a case of keeping the character design simple for the sake of animation complexity (which is way superior to your average old TV show). For the very same reason you don't see all that many details and shading on the Cat Soup characters.
Spam this away all you want, but that's just the opening. After that, there are some impressive boobshots of Plastic Little quality in the first episode, but on the balance that OAV is not extraordinarily well animated.

Oh, man, NOW we're talking about the good stuff There's about 400 episodes of Urusei Yatstura, 11 oav episodes (I think), and 6 movies (one of which was directed by none other than Oshii Mamoru, one of my all-time favourite film directors).



Sakura Tsuushin was utter trash, but I love U-Jin's style, so I ended up getting it. I think I woulda liked it more as a young teenager, as it panders to the male fantasy of having a good looking girl do everything for you. The last series I watched with that same theme was Fujishima Kosuke's Ah! Megamisama (the oavs, not the terrible televised series). In spite of its simplistic theme(s), the designs looked great all around.



If Lucky Star had chara designs that were anywhere near as good as the ones in Ah! Megamisama (and was as funny as Urusei Yatsura), I'd be sold on seeing the episodes. I don't care for fluid animation as much as I enjoy the designs themselves with some decent adult-oriented/smart humour, esp. when it comes to television series and direct-to-video productions.


I like this a lot:




This is why modern anime sucks nowadays:

[SockPuppetHyren]

Hey guys what's going on in this thread...?

What's this? Cherry picking? Complaining about shows you don't watch? General silliness? I lol'd.

Seriously the fact that Lucky Star, Strike Witches, and maybe K-on seems to be the only examples people can bring up over and over again is just funny to me. And the whole "OLD CHARACTER DESIGN IS BETTER AND MOAR REAL THAN NEW CHARACTER DESIGN" is just as funny. Maybe studying art for a while has made me appreciate more things that I probably should, but most of the arguments from this thread seem to boil down to "I want more ultra-violence for mature people like myself!". That, and high-grade nostalgia glasses.

Personally, I've been enjoying myself some Penguindrum. I'd suggest it to other here, but they'd probably bitch about the lack of x-treme shading.

[xbl0x180]

Hey guys what's going on in this thread...?

What's this? Cherry picking? Complaining about shows you don't watch? General silliness? I lol'd.

Seriously the fact that Lucky Star, Strike Witches, and maybe K-on seems to be the only examples people can bring up over and over again is just funny to me...

You wanted a comprehensive list of this s**t? Seriously? Hahahah. The whole glut of animoe about "cute girls doing cute things" isn't something that a few members here have conjured up outta the blue. Noone needs a MFA to see that.

I agree with the "nostalgia glasses" about as much as one could also be nostalgic about the time when MTV used to air music videos - and didn't suck

[Siren2011]

Penguindrum

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xElipsgRA74

HAHAHAHAHA. WOW...That's all I have to add to this discussion.

/Thread. Joke is over. Everyone go home.

[SockPuppetHyren]

Hey guys what's going on in this thread...?

What's this? Cherry picking? Complaining about shows you don't watch? General silliness? I lol'd.

Seriously the fact that Lucky Star, Strike Witches, and maybe K-on seems to be the only examples people can bring up over and over again is just funny to me...

You wanted a comprehensive list of this s**t? Seriously? Hahahah.

Not really,no. It just get tiring to see Lucky star and K-on as the go to shows for people who crow their favorite shows being better than everything new that comes out. Some variety is nice, y'know.

Why don't you throw in Hidamari Sketch or something? Or how about one of the hundred shitty harem shows that came out after Love Hina?

I agree with the "nostalgia glasses" about as much as one could also be nostalgic about the time when MTV used to air music videos - and didn't suck

The problem with that analogy is that it's completely wrong. The ratio of good to suck in anime hasn't changed in the least. You sing the praises of your favorite shows, while seeming to completely ignore the any of the bad, pandering crap that came with it. Unless you honestly think stuff like Macross, Urusei Yatsura, Ah! My Goddess were a dime a dozen. There's a reason why those shows were remembered, unlike stuff like Balattack, or Garzey's Wing. They were exceptional shows, and people made sure to pass them on. When this decade passes, people will do the same thing with the shows from now, and people will go all nostalgia glasses on the as well. Really, the only thing that changed from then to now, is that there's no long a filter, so you see all the mediocre crap and have to wade through it to find gems.

Most of your arguments that I've seen come down to "Old stuff is better because it is! All new animu is pedoshit!". It's all really just preference, and at times you seem to have not watched a single show past 2002. It's a similar case with most people that go on about how great "X" media was in the past. They pick the best suff to go against stuff they hate, and other hoot and holler like some kind of deep statement was made. Shit's funny to me, is all. I'm not the type to get mad about people not liking shows I like, as I'd be a nervous wreck if I did. I just find it funny when I see a bunch of dudes whining and crying about how cartoons from another country aren't catering to their wants, especially since I've seen a lot of the same arguments presented in the same way on a certain imageboard that won't be named.