danmaku or non danmaku?

[Treasurance]

non-danmakus tend to be full of fake difficulty (cheap shots, huge hitboxes, 10 second bomb delay, MAME)

[mouser]

non-danmakus tend to be full of fake difficulty (cheap shots, huge hitboxes, 10 second bomb delay, MAME)

Someone's been playing Raiden....

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

non-danmakus tend to be full of fake difficulty (cheap shots, huge hitboxes, 10 second bomb delay, MAME)

My little troll can't be this butthurt

[Bananamatic]

I could say the same thing about "extreme danmaku games" with barely getting hit by slow bullets

more frustrating than getting hit by a fast bullet you couldn't react to

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

Frustration with a style of gameplay you dislike is normal. It is most definitely not "fake" difficulty however. And now that I think about it, the phrase makes no bloody sense. If you're complaining about something that shouldn't be giving you as much ire as it does, then you can't really call it difficult at all can you?

[ncp]

I edited in the last line of this post when I saw the fake difficulty post in this thread because I didn't want to de-rail it, but since someone else sort of did for me, I thought I'd share my feelings on the phrase with you ^_^

[andsuchisdeath]

I'm all for labeling/categorizing as well as comparing/contrasting but this thread is wack.

[Treasurance]

the real fake difficulty is the lack of motivating BGM

[RNGmaster]

the real fake difficulty is the lack of motivating BGM

mute it and play shrine of farewell bgm instead

[dunpeal2064]

the real fake difficulty is the lack of motivating BGM

mute it and play DOJ arrange bgm instead

^ I do this instead whenever I play touhou

[dinosaurjerk]

i need an option that's inclusive of dodonpachi and darius but exclusive of toho and gradius, imho, OP.

[tinotormed]

I get used to playing shmups since I was a kid. My first one used to be 'Galaga'. I sucked on it before. but I knew how to play it a bit these days.

I am starting to get to know about danmaku when I first play Strikers 1945 II in the arcades at the mall. I know, I am much more of a 'credit-feeder' since I am still learning how to play.

But nowadays, I combine both of these experiences into my instinct since I always get used to 'both' bullet hell and regular shmups.

[Naglfar]

Frustration with a style of gameplay you dislike is normal. It is most definitely not "fake" difficulty however. And now that I think about it, the phrase makes no bloody sense. If you're complaining about something that shouldn't be giving you as much ire as it does, then you can't really call it difficult at all can you?

Raocow appreciation aside, fake difficulty refers to something that requires memorisation or luck rather than skill to get through. Since shmups are 70% memorisation anyway, it doesn't matter. Treasurance is just a silly troll man.

[toaplan_shmupfan]

They may be trolling but I need to make a point clear, since huge hitboxes were how the genre started I'm not going to consider that cheap.

Fixed shooters such as Space Invaders, Galaga, and Phoenix used the entire height and width of the sprite--not cheap, but an honest representation of the hitbox for the sprite.

Vertical scrolling shooters such as Sky Shark, Twin Cobra, Truxton, Raiden, etc. used nearly the entire sprite as the hitbox. In home games, this seems to change a bit--Twin Cobra for the Genesis can pass shots though the tail of the helicopter and in Raiden Trad for the Genesis shots can pass through the wingtips on either side of the plane's engines. Horizontal scrolling shooters such as Whip Rush (only the ship's antenna is invincible), Gaiares, Darius series, ThunderForce series, Hellfire (only the very tips of the rotating engines are invincible), etc. used nearly the entire sprite as the hitbox. Isometric scrolling games Zaxxon and Viewpoint used the entire ship as the hitbox. In all cases, not cheap but an honest representation of the hitbox for the sprite.

I understand that danmaku usually uses a smaller hitbox, but let's not talk down all those non-danmakus just because danmaku tends to favor a much smaller hitbox in many cases.

[O. Van Bruce]

the real fake difficulty is the lack of motivating BGM

This ^

Cannot Play a danmaku seriously if it doesn't have good BGM...

And Danmaku for me, sires... just recently played Darius Gaiden and it was so nuts @_@

[BIL]

I like all good shooters, even ones where you don't shoot.

[Mills]

You've always spelt that wrong Mister Mills.

Non Danmaku for me. Straining my eyes and threading the eye of a needle a thousand times isn't quite where its at for me.

You can discriminate all you want but via fine distintion of what qualities makes a true shump game. but at the end of the day, THEY ARE ALL THE SAME. A shump is a shump period regardless if the game is not your cup of tea when it comes to the essence of gameplay, CGI, and BGM.
Of course i could take this further by saying in your favor that todays shumps aren't what they should be in comparision to what we used to play back in the 80's, but time moves on, the gaming culture moves on and of course the games move on. If you cant hack it when it comes to playing games that don't suit your style of play THEN DONT PLAY IT. But dont get into a brainstorm and say if a shump doesn't comply to your specific gameplay requirements, it isn't a true shump.

[Hagane]

I prefer games with enemies that know how to aim but I play them all

[xbl0x180]

"Fake difficulty"? Hahaha. Whaaaa...? I once played a Galaga arcade where I made it past level 125 (or 126, I ferget), but the "fire" function was a wee bit faster than what I usually play it in (thus, no hand-cramping for a longer period of time)

[toaplan_shmupfan]

Was that Galaga 20th anniversary edition? That game offers faster shots and four shots at a time vs. the original Galaga game. Holding down the button also offers some rapid fire up to the four shot at a time limit. Because of that, the default high score is also something like 999990.

[xbl0x180]

Was that Galaga 20th anniversary edition? That game offers faster shots and four shots at a time vs. the original Galaga game. Holding down the button also offers some rapid fire up to the four shot at a time limit. Because of that, the default high score is also something like 999990.

That be the one. At that point, the score was "stuck" at that number and I was just playing to go higher in level/rank

[toaplan_shmupfan]

A shump is a shump period regardless if the game is not your cup of tea when it comes to the essence of gameplay, CGI, and BGM.

Yes, I agree. I got the impression this poll was a preference poll as to whether those who voted and responded preferred danmaku or non-danmaku. I didn't get the impression a vote for one considered the other not to be a shmup.

I my case, I like to move around when I play shmups--thus my additional preference for vertical or isometric shmups over many--but not all--horizontal shmups. I like the game even more if the screen pans from side to side. I prefer to be able to dodge a single aimed bullet or laser or a pattern of spread shots and such, over having to find a narrow gap in a dense bullet pattern and having to essentially tap dodge.

I think, in that regard, Strikers 1945 series is kind of a blend of the two. I like the game, though I can't really get past the 5th stage at the Normal arcade difficulty. It has a large hitbox for shots, however, running into enemy planes is only a power down in shot power. The game is all about aimed bullets and bullet spreads (with the exception of the planes that just fire a straight ahead burst but then again that also restricts movement), and the bullets fired are fast and get even faster in the later stages. The Support (bomb) delay isn't too long. Depending on the plane, the support is best used either offensively or defensively.

Finally, Raiden often gets comments about being cheap and a sniper fire game. True, it is a sniper fire game, but it isn't cheap. After a while, it's almost predictable: some tanks attacking on the left, some popcorn enemies attacking on the left, some tanks attacking on the right, some popcorn enemies attacking on the right, a powerup ship or two, occasional popcorn enemies or series of tanks in the middle or occasional popcorn enemies attacking on the opposite side of where some tanks are (but still onscreen without having to pan the screen) near the middle of the screen area, then... a short gap in the attack? Well, better pan to the right and check for another attack on the left because it's not always left-right-left-right-left-right in the attacks. Or, if the last attack was from the left before the middle attack and the small gap, better check to the left again if moving from the left towards the middle to get that middle attack. If there wasn't an attack on the right, don't pan all the way to the left right away because yeah, the one or more sniper tanks are over there with their turrets ready to aim and fire. (Similarly, if the other attack didn't occur from the left again, don't be so quick to move all the way to the right.) Also watch out for that delayed attack if tanks are on one side of the screen but there is a small house on the same side of the screen, yeah, a tank is going to emerge from that timed so that if the player does pan to the other side, that tank is ready to sniper fire if the player pans back there. Pause, and wait for the tank to emerge.

[Zengeku3]

Strictly danmaku games for me.

All those shmups with really fast bullets gets quite repetetive for me. It feels like they are all the same. To be fair, I've only actually played Gunbird, i think some Toaplan stuff and some other game I can't remember the name of that was made by Psikyou but I didn't really find them all that interesting.

Danmaku however, hell yes. I enjoy the idea of constantly being on the lookout for gaps through at first glance impossible to dodge waves of bullets. Sometimes it doesn't matter if the bullets are slow, as long as they are still hard to read n' dodge, its all dandy for me... the threatening part is something that is often forgotten in Touhou games though. Despite that, I still play the games because there is still a large amount of excellent quality bullet patterns that are really hard to dodge.

Cave games... they are good. Really good. Their stages are unique and you have to constantly on the move to clear them. That is of course the same with non-danmaku shmups but their stages just seem so bland even if they are really hard. That's of course just opinions.

I don't really bother to even try non-danmakus normally so I vote for danmakus.

[stryc9]

They are equal and opposite sides of the same coin, and the STG landscape is richer for it.

The skill sets required to play either style proficiently are different enough that if I get burned out on one type I can just move over to the other for a while

EDIT: I couldn't just play one style exclusivly, that's for sure. But then the only other genre that I play these days is versus fighting, so when you only have two genres to play you appreciate variety within them

[AuraDRGN]

I cant help it to fly in the middle of 2 bullets

[beatsgo]

I personally enjoy either style since both can be challenging at certain points of a game. Obvious poll decision in this thread. But if it was strictly just danmaku vs. non-danmaku, danmaku all the way. I don't know why, but danmaku's has this weird line of forgiving you and just kicking your butt making me wanting to play more of them. Must be the appeal of being a little bit more "modern" but still doesn't stop me playing any shmup.

[R-Gray 1]

looking the results until now:

danmaku (like dodonpachi, touhou and other stuff) 37% 37% [ 34 ]
non danmaku (like gradius, darius and more) 12% 12% [ 11 ]
i plays all shmup i don't care if its a danmaku or not 51% 51% [ 47 ]


I preffer non danmaku....but I enjoy both I don't care if its danmaku or not
so Im thinking to vote for option 3.

[maxlords]

I like both equally. I've only gotten into danmaku stuff recently but I still definitely like both traditional and danmaku shmups.