DVDO EDGE - How it performs

[Fudoh]

sounds to me as if your transcoder doesn't actually do any color transcoding, but is just acting as a breakout box from Scart to 3x RCA.

[fagin]

sounds to me as if your transcoder doesn't actually do any color transcoding, but is just acting as a breakout box from Scart to 3x RCA.

Agreed... correct component will carry it's own sync with no need for a separate sync.

[BuckoA51]

Same conclusion I just reached!

[Hamburglar]

sounds to me as if your transcoder doesn't actually do any color transcoding, but is just acting as a breakout box from Scart to 3x RCA.

I dunno if I'd say that, simply because it looks pretty complicated not to mention it gets hot as HELL.

Here's the item I have:

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-SCART-RGB-YPbPr ... 3362ac07d1

[BuckoA51]

That's a SCART to Component transcoder all right. I can't imagine why you'd add a sync line yourself, surely if it needed one, one would be included, I mean why would they sell a device that didn't work?

Next time you're using this thing, press the "Menu" button on the edge and go down to "Information". What does it say next to Color Space and Sync Type?

Hmm actually I've just realised something, if you spliced off the sync line does that mean there's no sync going into the transcoder? That might be your problem right there.

[Hamburglar]

That's a SCART to Component transcoder all right. I can't imagine why you'd add a sync line yourself, surely if it needed one, one would be included, I mean why would they sell a device that didn't work?

I was confused, too. Hell, the thing doesn't even have audio outputs, I'm not sure how they expected people to do that either. I can't imagine they'd expect people to ALSO have a $500 device that would sync the image. I'm confused as well.

Next time you're using this thing, press the "Menu" button on the edge and go down to "Information". What does it say next to Color Space and Sync Type?

Here's a photo I took of my SNES over RGB, I did a photo since nothing is mentioned about Sync Type:

Hmm actually I've just realised something, if you spliced off the sync line does that mean there's no sync going into the transcoder? That might be your problem right there.

Nope I "spliced" it (rather I should have said "tapped" it) from the sync pin internally on the device so it's not disconnected from the cable:

[bryan_c]

Since I now wasted money on this scart to component trasncoder, can I use it for another plasma I have in my basement?
...
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-SCART-RGB-YPbPr ... 3362ac07d1

I have one of those cheap transcoders, and I can confirm it doesn't need separate sync going into my CRT - the three component cables are enough. Though that ebay listing claims to be selling a CVS287, and my transcoder came with a piece of cardboard labeled CVS2087, so maybe it's not the same thing. Case looks the same, though.

But by all means, try going straight from the transcoder into your TV. Don't be surprised if it doesn't work though; as has been said, many newer TVs don't like 240p over component.

I did find that my SNES -> JP RGB21 cable -> JP/EU SCART adapter cable -> CVS transcoder -> component cable -> CRT TV looks a bit worse than SNES -> JP RGB21 cable -> XRGB3 -> VGA cable -> LCD TV. This is purely speculation on my part, but perhaps the cheap transcoder is a bit crap, and the sync it embeds on the Y (green component) cable isn't quite good enough for the DVDO Edge?

You shouldn't be using an RGB -> component transcoder with the Edge anyway (unless you really want to use a component switcher instead of a SCART switcher, I suppose). The extra transcoding step shouldn't help and is likely hurting. If you can't find a SCART breakout cable, might I tentatively suggest a Sync Strike from http://arcadeforge.de and a VGA breakout cable? Tentative because I haven't tried such a setup myself; I neither have an Edge nor the components I'm suggesting, but in theory it should work.

If you can't find a VGA -> 5 RCA breakout cable for sale (and I can't either with 5 minutes of searching), I don't see why a VGA -> 5 BNC breakout cable plus 5 BNC -> RCA adapters wouldn't work; monoprice sells all of these. Regarding the BNC -> RCA adaptors, you'll want a male RCA end to go into the Edge, and make sure the BNC gender is the opposite of the BNCs on the VGA breakout cable so they'll plug together.

[BuckoA51]

I guess sync type must have been added in a later firmware then. Ok plan B, can you try something like PS2 or a DVD player in through component, without transcoding (with no extra sync wire obviously). If that doesn't work you may have a fault on your Edge.

You shouldn't be using an RGB -> component transcoder with the Edge anyway (unless you really want to use a component switcher instead of a SCART switcher, I suppose). The extra transcoding step shouldn't help and is likely hurting.

Agreed, the other option is to have either cable custom made, since the components are not uncommon it should not be hard to find a custom cable shop that does it, this will be more expensive of course.

If you can't find a SCART breakout cable, might I tentatively suggest a Sync Strike from http://arcadeforge.de and a VGA breakout cable? Tentative because I haven't tried such a setup myself; I neither have an Edge nor the components I'm suggesting, but in theory it should work.

Not only does this appear to work but work better than the SCART breakout cable if you connect it to the Edge's RGBHV inputs

[BuckoA51]

If anyone in the US wants a bargain Extron RGB 580 xi - http://cgi.ebay.com/Extron-RGB-580xi-/180685418409

[Hamburglar]

If anyone in the US wants a bargain Extron RGB 580 xi - http://cgi.ebay.com/Extron-RGB-580xi-/180685418409

What might one use this for?

Thanks so much for all the information by the way, guys. I ordered a sync strike and I am well on my way to getting everything the way it should be.

[fagin]

Re-read the last few pages of this thread.

[BuckoA51]

Here's something weird I noticed, the picture processing delay when using XRGB3->DVDO Edge is not always the same, this really has me totally baffled, Here are my results:-

Super Famicom (NTSC) - 8ms
Saturn (NTSC) - 6ms
Genesis - 25ms NTSC 30ms PAL Yes gamer mode was turned on!
Atari Jaguar (PAL) - 9ms
Amiga CD32 (PAL) - 9ms

Dreamcast (via VGA, not going to XRGB3 first) - 6ms

Weird or what? The Genesis result is particularly disappointing. Lucky I chose a relatively lag-free TV.

[Fudoh]

did you have the output genlock switched on all the time ? The MD/GEN results would seem as it's been turned off.

[BuckoA51]

Output frame lock was set to "unlocked" for all the tests, it has to be unlocked else I get white horizontal lines flash through the picture all the time. However, I re-enabled it just to see and the results were the same. Bizarre indeed.

[Fudoh]

yes, indeed. It's normal that delay varies with an unlocked output, but I don't understand why it changes with locked output as well.

[BuckoA51]

There's certainly plenty of good arguments for just sticking with a CRT huh? Obviously if I discover anything new I'll post it here first.

Quick edit - The high lag times happen if you feed the Genny directly into the Edge too (via the usual RGBc inputs)

[Konsolkongen]

That's very strange :/ My results were:

MegaDrive 1: 6ms
Saturn: 6ms
SNES: 8ms

EDIT: Auto Lock was on.

[fagin]

There's certainly plenty of good arguments for just sticking with a CRT huh?

You can't beat the "real thing" for simplistic connection and quality we all spend £100's trying to emulate! lol No fun in that though is there! That's coming from someone who has four CRT's in use. roflol

[Konsolkongen]

Also if you only want ONE TV a Plasma or LCD is much easier to TATE. If I remember correctly you have to unplug a CRT and leave it alone for several hours before you can turn it on the side. Otherwise the colors get messed up bad

[Strider77]

Not on my Sony CRT multi sync monitor.... tate is perfect color wise. Love that monitor...... 240p on up to 1080p naitive, with no lag or scaling (well I have read it can handle 1080p at 24 FPS only, but I can confirm 240p on up to 1080i naitive with no lag or scaling).

[Konsolkongen]

I have one of those cheap transcoders, and I can confirm it doesn't need separate sync going into my CRT - the three component cables are enough. Though that ebay listing claims to be selling a CVS287, and my transcoder came with a piece of cardboard labeled CVS2087, so maybe it's not the same thing. Case looks the same, though.
...
I did find that my SNES -> JP RGB21 cable -> JP/EU SCART adapter cable -> CVS transcoder -> component cable -> CRT TV looks a bit worse than SNES -> JP RGB21 cable -> XRGB3 -> VGA cable -> LCD TV. This is purely speculation on my part, but perhaps the cheap transcoder is a bit crap, and the sync it embeds on the Y (green component) cable isn't quite good enough for the DVDO Edge?

I got one of those Scart to YUV transcoders today and decided to compare the output with real RGB using the XRGB-3.

Saturn RGB > XRGB-3 Game In:


Saturn RGB > Scart to YUV > XRGB-3 D in 3:

Both are taken with LPF off.

The difference in height is most likely caused by the screen capture program on the PC, because it looks the same on my TV. The transcoded picture does look a little less sharp, but I don't see that on my TV, at least not with scanlines enabled. It could also be that I didn't match the brightness setting? I'd say it looks pretty damn good

Ignore the two vertical 1px black lines in the bottom of the transcoded picture. That's a screen capture error for sure, I just didn't feel like taking another one

[fagin]

Also if you only want ONE TV a Plasma or LCD is much easier to TATE. If I remember correctly you have to unplug a CRT and leave it alone for several hours before you can turn it on the side. Otherwise the colors get messed up bad

Another internet myth that must be gospel in all situations! Personally I have never once had a problem.

Yes it can happen, but that does not mean it happens with all set's or scenarios.

[fagin]

I have one of those cheap transcoders, and I can confirm it doesn't need separate sync going into my CRT - the three component cables are enough. Though that ebay listing claims to be selling a CVS287, and my transcoder came with a piece of cardboard labeled CVS2087, so maybe it's not the same thing. Case looks the same, though.
...
I did find that my SNES -> JP RGB21 cable -> JP/EU SCART adapter cable -> CVS transcoder -> component cable -> CRT TV looks a bit worse than SNES -> JP RGB21 cable -> XRGB3 -> VGA cable -> LCD TV. This is purely speculation on my part, but perhaps the cheap transcoder is a bit crap, and the sync it embeds on the Y (green component) cable isn't quite good enough for the DVDO Edge?

I got one of those Scart to YUV transcoders today and decided to compare the output with real RGB using the XRGB-3.

The difference in height is most likely caused by the screen capture program on the PC, because it looks the same on my TV. The transcoded picture does look a little less sharp, but I don't see that on my TV, at least not with scanlines enabled. It could also be that I didn't match the brightness setting? I'd say it looks pretty damn good

Ignore the two vertical 1px black lines in the bottom of the transcoded picture. That's a screen capture error for sure, I just didn't feel like taking another one

I can see a clarity difference (I can be quite anal though) even with those image sizes..... I would suspect it is even more obvious fullsize. I would agree though, that with scanlines the difference will not be noticeable.

I assume this was just a test as the reality of doing this is a bit of non starter.

[Konsolkongen]

I just wanted to see if the transcoder was crap or not

[Fudoh]

There is a certain difference (actually has to be) which is caused by the fact, that RGB uses a 4:4:4 color resolution (meaning all color channels are kept in full res), while component uses 4:2:2 which means that only the the luminance channel is kept in full res), while the color channels are transmitted in half resolution only. Since the resolution is based on the full 15khz bandwidth, it's hard to notice with low-res games since the half res of the color channel is still enough to cover the complete low-res resolution.

[Konsolkongen]

On Hamburglar's DVDO Edge picture above, the info screen says YCbCr 444. But I guess the Edge is anything but accurate when it comes to colorspace recognition

[Fudoh]

yeah, you could say that. Also Hamburgler's connection is likely RGBs (he was saying that he needs the sync line), so while Ycbcr is wrong, at least the 4:4:4 point would be right...

[Konsolkongen]

He could just as well be splitting the sync before the transcoder. How would the trancoder know the difference and pass through the full color resolution on blue and red, wouldn't it be the same but with composite sync on the side?

[Fudoh]

I have no idea and I still don't think that his transcoder works at all. As mentioned before his transcoder just seems to act as a breakout box from scart to 3x RCA....

[wildchild22]

I have one of those and mine outputs component video fine I do not need sync added. I did drill a hole on the case and added a stereo out from the scart connector. I find it is perfect.

sounds to me as if your transcoder doesn't actually do any color transcoding, but is just acting as a breakout box from Scart to 3x RCA.

I dunno if I'd say that, simply because it looks pretty complicated not to mention it gets hot as HELL.

Here's the item I have:

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-SCART-RGB-YPbPr ... 3362ac07d1