So I played Ikaruga for the first time...

[Rob]

Deformed, bloated shooters: "quintessential" @ shmups.org.

[R-Gray 1]

It's VERY similar to what alot of people think about with WoW, and the MMO genre. I dont play WoW, it's not a BAD game, but the problem with it is that it sucks people into it (often with the Blizzard name, and large population), and they end up not trying out OTHER games in the genre that they might like MORE. WoW is the one that's supposed to be on top, so they play that and think that's all there is to it.

I see the same thing with Ikaruga as well (and touhou). They play it, and it's this awesome combo of shooting and puzzle games (?), it's this amazing artistic experience, it's like watching a well-coreographed dance number, blahblahblah.

.....but have they played anything else, do they have OTHER shmups to compare it to? Most of the time, no. At least, from what I've seen, anyway.

I have a hard time seeing someone liking Ikaruga but not willing to try other games in the genre. I think it more likely that:

1. They get curious about shmups
2. They want to play the "best" according to reviewers
3. They try Ikaruga and think it sucks
4. They think it's representative of shmups in general and give up on the genre, and go back to playing Halo

Unfortunate, but what can you do. Heck, I tried to get brother into Ikaruga, but he preferred R-Type and Gradius V more.

I am curious what would be regarded here as the quintessential shmup, however.

Reading some of the posts i think some people here took too serious reviews,videogames magazines, or if the game is soo popular. .....

I had the luck to play just last year Ikaruga. I like Ikaruga, maybe for a 7.5 or 8/10 but my favourites are

Star Force, Image fight....on NES....OMG i guess this games made me shmups fan since i was 8 years old. for me this are the shmups I could add in this list Axelay ...gorgeous snes shmup, RSG made me remember this game and some of Image fight.

other favourites are Darius Force / Super Nova, Gradius III, Raystorm, Einhänder, Radiant silvergun, Gradius V, Border Down, Mars Matrix.
but Im pretty sure I still need play much more shmups...the reason is because I like them.

shmups were popular long time ago....if reviewers or magazines only talk about one shmup like Ikaruga, its not too important I think. If this happened in 80s or even 90s, that could be questionable.

[RNGmaster]

Deformed, bloated shooters: "quintessential" @ shmups.org.

Crimzon Clover is deformed? Please elaborate.

[chempop]

I have a hard time seeing someone liking Ikaruga but not willing to try other games in the genre.

You're correct, they will also try Gradius V because Treasure makes the best shmups ever.

Seriously though, I know many people who played Ikaruga for a while and when they were done with it they either went back to counterstrike or halo, or stopped playing video games altogether because mastering it completely burned they out and no other game could ever compare.

[Despatche]

what

to learn to master this game is to also learn about shmups, and then they just go play other shmups

[T-hawk]

I never hear such a level of adversity toward RSG, so I'm assuming most people consider that to be superior to Ika? (I know I do.)

I think a lot fewer people have played Radiant Silvergun. Everybody's played Ikaruga thanks to the US Gamecube release (and the Japanese Dreamcast version wasn't hard to pirate either.) Hardly anybody had a Sega Saturn and even fewer had it modded for import games like RSG. I think it wasn't until around 2005 that Saturn emulators got it to playability and MAME caught up with ST-V support. By then, RSG was more of a historical artifact and not something one would really seriously play over a more modern shooter.

For my money, RSG stood out for its day far more than any other shmup ever, and is still my alltime favorite even now.

[ncp]

Okay, let me clarify. DOJ is basically Cave's Ikaruga: you need to make a plan how to approach it and doing even a single mistake usually hurts you a lot. (In DDP with no hypers you can't even make a plan, you just need to learn the chains)

I don't think you thought this one out very thoroughly...

Vague implying arguments are fun. I think I might have some idea what you're trying to say here but seeing how you didn't even bother to clarify it I don't see why I should either.

a) how is executing a chain not a plan
b) how is ikaruga not just executing a chain

[Rob]

Crimzon Clover is deformed? Please elaborate.

Well, just look at this mess.

[ancestral-knowledge]

Please stop using the word gameplay for things that you are either too lazy or too dumb to point out. It's the same as saying that something is good/bad but you just cannot describe why. The same goes for the word art. Nowadays i see this word used often to hide some obvious weaknesses in a game.
"Autoshot is not in the game because it is so artsy."
" You can not select levels for practise because you have to go through the whole experience everytime you play... so artsy! "
etc.


It's just stupid.

Sincerly
a.-k.

[burgerkingdiamond]

Crimzon Clover is deformed? Please elaborate.

Well, just look at this mess.

Dude, Crimzon Clover is awesome.

[BIL]

Please stop using the word gameplay for things that you are either too lazy or too dumb to point out. It's the same as saying that something is good/bad but you just cannot describe why.

Indeed.

[burgerkingdiamond]

This thread is so damn boring, it's worse than playing Ikaruga.

[Erppo]

a) how is executing a chain not a plan
b) how is ikaruga not just executing a chain

I was merely pointing out how the game offers you even less freedom.
In DOJ you can plan your hyper distribution: you can either use them in places you have trouble chainng othervise or save them for the highest scoring spots. There's also the choice in how far are you willing to go to get more hyper charge.
In Ikaruga you can plan what formations you're going to chain and what to skip in order to keep the risks and difficulty of the execution at a suitable level.
In DDP you have little freedom over anything and the game only allows very minor variation in how you can chain most of the difficult bits. Basically only optimization the game allows is trying to add couple of extra hits to the chain here and there. So, the game doesn't really leave much room for your own planning.

[R-Gray 1]

Please stop using the word gameplay for things that you are either too lazy or too dumb to point out. It's the same as saying that something is good/bad but you just cannot describe why.

Indeed.

hi BIL,
pls can you explain more about that?

its Ikaruga a good game for you? and Im not asking you if Ikaruga is the best shmup....

I like the Ikaruga Stages, gameplay, stage designs, enemies , soundtrack...
Im not sure if gameplay is the right word, because im not very good in english language

[BIL]

Wasn't a go at you or anyone in particular. I just don't like it when people throw around "good gameplay" and "bad gameplay" with nothing else to back it up.

I like Ikaruga enough, but I really don't care what people think of it. I try to not take sides with particular shooters. It's enough of a personal investment to even play them seriously, let alone argue with people over the internet about them.

[Observer]

R-Gray 1> I think the words you are looking for are "game mechanics". 'Gameplay' doesn't make sense at all in spanish. The only equivalent I think I can find is "jugabilidad" but that's "playability" in english. The word has no direct translation whatsoever: "Juego jugar", "Jugar Juego", it's plain hilarious. Picture if I use it in a review: "La 'jugar-juego' de este juego es muy aburrida". No. NO. What do reviewers do nowadays? They just slam the word "gameplay", even in fucking spanish! Older magazines did not have any issues describing the game mechanics so I don't know why they have to rely on anglicisms to explain themselves.

Anyway, this got too offtopic. Lock this already and let the people play whatever the hell they want, jeez!

[R-Gray 1]

thanks BIL...so i think i can say I like Ikaruga enough too.
I remember u because u talked with me about Taito legends - Rayforce and u like Zuntata too,

thanks very much Observer
game mechanics....sounds much better, thanks ....Translation websites Spanish to english are far to being very good.
we can play any game we want, even I played few months ago Touhou mystiq square my first Touhou.

[borislaw]

Ikaruga is awesome; gets way too much hate on this site. Shiguri chase, snake-head boss--indisputably fun

[Drum]

Please stop using the word gameplay for things that you are either too lazy or too dumb to point out. It's the same as saying that something is good/bad but you just cannot describe why. The same goes for the word art. Nowadays i see this word used often to hide some obvious weaknesses in a game.
"Autoshot is not in the game because it is so artsy."
" You can not select levels for practise because you have to go through the whole experience everytime you play... so artsy! "
etc.


It's just stupid.

Sincerly
a.-k.

What the hell are you talking about?

[mesh control]

Ikaruga is awesome; gets way too much hate on this site.

Top 25 Shmups of All Time (through 2009)

Code: Select all

Game                                               Score '02 '03 '04 '05 '06 '07 '08
01  Battle Garegga (SAT/ARC)                        6.64   +   +   *   +   +   +   .
02  Dodonpachi (ARC/SAT/PS1)                        6.20   -   -   -   -   -   +   .
03  Ketsui kizuna jigoku tachi (ARC)                5.57   *   *   *   *   *   *   +
04  Armed Police Batrider (ARC)                     5.23   *   *   +   *   .   +   +
05  Gradius V (PS2)                                 5.11   *   *   -   -   -   -   +
06  Ikaruga (DC/AC/360)                             4.94   -   -   -   -   -   -   +
07  Raiden Fighters Jet (ARC/360)                   4.72   *   *   *   *   *   *   +

[Udderdude]

Crimzon Clover is deformed? Please elaborate.

Well, just look at this mess.

I have to agree that CC does the "Over the top" thing even more than Cave. Thankfully you can go into the options and turn all that shit down to a minimum. As for the actual game, it's got solid mechanics but has some random factors and the lock-on can be a bit too random for my tastes. And Unlimited mode just turns into DOUBLE BREAK~U spam and full screen bullet cancels just in order to survive for more than two seconds. It becomes less about avoiding/herding the bullets and more about keeping them off the screen entirely.

tl;dr: Simple/original mode with all the graphics settings turned down to 'stop raping my eyes plz' is at least worth playing.

[RNGmaster]

tl;dr: Simple/original mode with all the graphics settings turned down to 'stop raping my eyes plz' is at least worth playing.

UL has some fun boss fights too - can't bullet cancel there.

[Udderdude]

tl;dr: Simple/original mode with all the graphics settings turned down to 'stop raping my eyes plz' is at least worth playing.

UL has some fun boss fights too - can't bullet cancel there.

Yes but you can still BREAK MODE all over the place. Which if I recall still bullet cancels everything for a short time.

[winter_in_america]

get Raiden Fighters Aces for 360!

seriously best shmups ever made. Oh, and you have to medal chain or no bueno

[Skykid]

Are people actually talking Crimson Clover down?

My eyes must be deceiving me.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Can't say much in Crimson Clover's defense, but I don't always consider messy visuals flawed. Case in point - Burnout 3 (PS2) with interlacing, aliasing and stuff. Some people found it indecipherable, but when I fail at it, I nearly always know what hit me. I also find superficial lack of clarity acceptable in certain shmups (provided I am eventually able to see right through it just in time). People's complaints about bullets in Raiden III being the same colour as explosions are just baffling to me since bullets have a dark outline in that game. It's always a clearly visible, round bullet against a background of explosion. Always, and yet folks have a beef even with Raiden III. Way easier on the eye than sprite flicker in old shmups.

[R-Gray 1]

Nice Crimson Clover pic..

and about Ikaruga? very good game.

[RNGmaster]

Are people actually talking Crimson Clover down?

My eyes must be deceiving me.

Rob's old eyes have trouble coping with all the multipliers, that's all. Nothing to see here, move along.
... and I think you're missing the point here, R-Gray.

[R-Gray 1]

Are people actually talking Crimson Clover down?

My eyes must be deceiving me.

Rob's old eyes have trouble coping with all the multipliers, that's all. Nothing to see here, move along.
... and I think you're missing the point here, R-Gray.

I think the problem is in this Topic xD

[manatworks]

Crimzon Clover is deformed? Please elaborate.

Well, just look at this mess.

love me some numbers