Jackal & Hound, inc.

[Y2135]

no offence to buddhists and hinduists, though =)

[mjclark]

no offence to buddhists and hinduists, though =)

Certainly not! I'm really interested that Under The Lotus has buddhist themes and some of the text is in sanskrit too.
Maybe you could have seven levels- one for each chakra (except the seventh level would be inconceivable so the game would actually have to finish at level 6) lol

[Y2135]

"Товарищи! Хочу объявить вам название нашей новой разработки. Его подсказали нам наши коллеги из КНР. Многие из них очень точно подметили, что отзвук, остающийся после взрыва разрядной цепной реакции очень напоминает звук вибрации буддистского колокола и предложили связать название с монументальными знаниями этой полезной обществу и социализму религии. Мы должны чтить традиции и опыт дружественных народов! К тому же китайские ученые внесли немалый вклад в успешное завершение исследований. Итак, позвольте представить вашему вниманию абсолютно новый тип реактора на недавно стабилизированном элементе 115 - KARMA REACTOR!"
- From the meeting #17 of "Top NEO-SSR Scientists" organization.

TRANSLATION:
Comrades! I want to announce to you the name of our newest technology. It was offered by our colleagues from China. Many of them have noticed that after-sound produced by explosion of discharge chain reaction is very similar to the sound of buddist bell, and decided to connect the name with monumental lore of this religion which is very useful for society and socialism. We have to keep on traditions and experience of comrade-nations! Moreover, our chinese friends contributed very much for successful completion of this research. So, let me introduce to you a cutting-edge brand-new reactor with element 115 - KARMA REACTOR!"
- From the meeting #17 of "Top NEO-SSR Scientists" organization.

[Observer]

This is getting pretty interesting. I tried the latest demo and it definitely looks more focused and cooler.

My only issue, and perhaps I should read the thread more thoroughly, is that I couldn't get my 360 pad to work with the game. I'll try a generic USB El Cheapo pad.

I like where this is getting though. The scratch mechanic reminded me of a mix between Psyvariar 2 and Excess Fraction.

I definitely approve russian text flying all over the screen too, it's usually the kind of "exotic" thing I like about shooters... although I guess for a russian reader it has zero exotic value, just like it happened with Einhander and german.

Thanks for using mediafire too!

[Y2135]

yes, public ZIP can't provide proper joystick control. but through topic there are links and stuff to make everything work, but you have to follow thread carefully. Yes, though I'm russian, I have put russian texts in the game for "exotic" purposes (and there is some story reason for this).

[RNGmaster]

Looks much better as a vert! Very promising. I have a few questions though:
- Does grazing increase firepower? If so, great. If not, that might be a cool mechanic to add (see Shikigami no Shiro)
- Scoring system is really simple, in the sense that killing all enemies, collecting all medals and not dying would give you a perfect score. If there's an easy way to score perfectly, then playing for score isn't interesting. Adding deeper mechanics like milking more medals by scraping bullets would be nice. That way, the scoring system would have more depth and would require more skill to use well.
- Bosses look to be too easy since you can just abuse scraping and cancel the patterns before they become threatening.

Sorry for my earlier harsh words. Your game looks great; keep going!

[Y2135]

- Does grazing increase firepower? If so, great. If not, that might be a cool mechanic to add (see Shikigami no Shiro)

Interesting idea, thought about it but realized that constant firepower is what I prefer more. It has to be compensated with more complicated scoring system of course and I'm working on that.

- Scoring system is really simple, in the sense that killing all enemies, collecting all medals and not dying would give you a perfect score. If there's an easy way to score perfectly, then playing for score isn't interesting. Adding deeper mechanics like milking more medals by scraping bullets would be nice. That way, the scoring system would have more depth and would require more skill to use well.

All is right, and I try hard to figure out more interesting ways to score (that's why I don't want to use powering up - 'more power >> more kills >> more score', that can be replaced with 'more skillful use of scoring system >> more score')

- Bosses look to be too easy since you can just abuse scraping and cancel the patterns before they become threatening.

Bosses are placeholders yet, so I didn't give them proper creative depth. Also, in demo karma reactor capacity is really small, it was made specially for easier understanding by people trying it, so there will be no easy-nuking all the way=)

Sorry for my earlier harsh words. Your game looks great; keep going!

No problem, more salt is better than more sugar.=)

[RNGmaster]

All is right, and I try hard to figure out more interesting ways to score (that's why I don't want to use powering up - 'more power >> more kills >> more score', that can be replaced with 'more skillful use of scoring system >> more score')
...
No problem, more salt is better than more sugar.=)

I like the way you think.
Downloading!

[Y2135]

Just don't be disappointed by not proper working of joy support. Everything fixed and works, but I don't upload proper version waiting for more updates to accumulate.

[RNGmaster]

I just tried the game, and it's really fun. I noticed an interesting glitch that I think might lead to some interesting paths - after you die, you can scrape bullets while still invincible. What if you implemented suiciding as a score mechanic? Example - players get extra lives easily but are encouraged to suicide strategically to be able to stand on an enemy firing a lot of bullets while invulnerable.

I know it doesn't go very well with the whole idea of rankings, but if you implemented something like a point bonus for number of Karma Reactors/stage, something like Psyvariar does with levels gained/stage, that might be cool. Just an idea.

Enemy numbers also might need to be improved, since in lots of circumstances there's dead air on the screen, and that's always bad. Also, I can't tell what the difference is between the ship types, but that's a minor problem.

[Y2135]

you suggested an idea to me, may be tomorrow I'll reupload build, for normal joy support sake and also to show some score-mechanic ideas.

[Udderdude]

Just watched the gameplay demo. Looks good. First boss could use more patterns and have the player actually need to dodge it for it's entire duration.

[Y2135]

You mean it's not a good idea to remove bullets during intermediate destruction of a boss?

[Y2135]

As many of you mentioned about scoring system be too straight, I decide to include some risk-reward tone. With the fact that joy support is ready but not included in the last build, I thought it's enough for the new build.
So, please welcome

SHINING ARMOUR v0.04b demo.
New video of this version.

Please note, that the main reason for this build are joystick working with it and more complicated scoring system. Stage is the same one, though I'm working on in-game-story stages that will be in final game.
And also before suggesting ideas and etc, check out README.TXT in game folder thoroughly.
Thank you and enjoy.

[mjclark]

Excellent! What's the differences in the new scoring system then?

[Udderdude]

You mean it's not a good idea to remove bullets during intermediate destruction of a boss?

Well, I don't understand the scoring enough to comment more, but usually this is the case.

[Y2135]

From the readme:

- [Karma reactor] Updated with heavy scoring multipliers. Now score affects by bullet curtain tightness around player (in buzz zone) and Karma reactor critical mass percentage. You have to keep it up to max but not allow chain raction to start for achieving the highest score. Karma reactor cool-down temp increased drastically, but slow button (change mode) allows you to suspend cool-down process.

CHANGES MADE SINCE PREVIOUS BUILD:
----------------------------------
- Added new hud element "Score about to gain". It's left from multiplier percentage.
- Enemies behavior corrected.
- Weapons corrected to be more classic.
- Duses system removed for the sake of aircrafts variety.
- Joysticks now work. Hallelujah!
- Joystick monitoring and deadzone adjustment added.
- Menu elements corrected.
- Buzzing duiring invulnerability forbiddened.
- Medals now come only from enemies destroyed by chain reaction.
- Enemies destroyed by chain reaction woun't give you any score.
- Sounds changed here and there.

[mjclark]

v0.04b:
Although it's good that the ships now have different behaviours, each ship should definitely have more than one type of shot- it was better before with the duses.
And scoring system now seems overcomplex and relies too heavily on bullet scraping.
It was more fun with the gameplay of 0.03

A compromise between 0.03 and 0.04 would be good:
Different shot types for each ship.
Slow ship speed also has different shot pattern from normal (either wider or focused). Maybe one ship type , slow will be focused shot and other ship type, slow will be wider.
Keep the risk reward mechanic with high score multiplier for high Karma Reactor level, but have medals produced by normal enemy destruction like before and scores for Karma Reactor destruction,and maybe have some medal chaining with increase in medal value too.
Rock on!

[Y2135]

I think I'll add some benefits for shooting to counter scraping part. Many scraping multipliers, I agree, but they are not necessary for everybody - it's really hard to graze and keep up, but this is good bonus for skilled players (as in the mgs or tenchu rankings). For example, you can just overload Karma reactor and blow the hell out of enemies to collect medals and rise fixed multiplier not tied with scraping aggressiveness.
I think just some add-on to shooting rewards will be fine.

[RNGmaster]

Scraping multipliers are awesome!
Two main issues right now though: Ship speed while focused is waaaaaay too slow. Like, it's hard to even tap-dodge out of a bullet's way. And 2-1 is really freakin' hard. Of course, if 2-1 means the game loops, then it fully deserves to be balls-to-the-wall hard.

If you are adding loops, can you please make the enemies shoot suicide bullets? That's a really fun element.

[Y2135]

Ship speed while focused is waaaaaay too slow

is there any departing point for calculating slow speed or it's mainly trial and error?

2-1 is really freakin' hard

2-1 is for those who rushed through 1-1 without notice. it's the same stage but with added /upgraded enemies. they are both only for demo though.

If you are adding loops, can you please make the enemies shoot suicide bullets? That's a really fun element.

I LOVE suicide bullets, but I'm not sure about loops. NORMAL HARD EXTREME difficulties are planned, so HARD/EXTREME can feature suicide bullets while NORMAL will stay more or less peaceful =)

[BPzeBanshee]

v0.04b:
Although it's good that the ships now have different behaviours, each ship should definitely have more than one type of shot- it was better before with the duses.
And scoring system now seems overcomplex and relies too heavily on bullet scraping.
It was more fun with the gameplay of 0.03

A compromise between 0.03 and 0.04 would be good:
Different shot types for each ship.
Slow ship speed also has different shot pattern from normal (either wider or focused). Maybe one ship type , slow will be focused shot and other ship type, slow will be wider.
Keep the risk reward mechanic with high score multiplier for high Karma Reactor level, but have medals produced by normal enemy destruction like before and scores for Karma Reactor destruction,and maybe have some medal chaining with increase in medal value too.
Rock on!

I'm with mjclark on this one. Something about the existing settings have just made the game less fun, though maybe that's just because now it's more difficult to actually scrape against bullets now that it only seems to actually have an effect every 10 frames. My jury isn't really out on this one though, I'm just happy that the joystick support works properly now.

Speaking of which, I don't know what you're doing with the settings but having the game save to file every time the deadzone and such buttons change is quite nasty on performance, it lags a fair few times and sometimes when changing deadzone it just keeps going up/down when I'm actually not doing anything. If you're doing saving to config straight away that's probably a bad idea (I did this in GMOSSE MK-III and navigating the Options Menu was irritating at best) so best be saving to file only when leaving the actual menu for that section (like I do now thanks to how Nimitz coded the joystick support among other things).

[Y2135]

though maybe that's just because now it's more difficult to actually scrape against bullets now that it only seems to actually have an effect every 10 frames.

It's not like that. Scrape effect now directly calculates from how fast the bullet is. So, scraping slow bullets gives you MUCH less energy now, and scraping fast bullets gives you A LOT. The most hellish scrape comes from enemies' beams. Also, homing bullets have large bonus for scraping (understandable why, I hope).

Speaking of which, I don't know what you're doing with the settings but having the game save to file every time the deadzone and such buttons change is quite nasty on performance, it lags a fair few times and sometimes when changing deadzone it just keeps going up/down when I'm actually not doing anything. If you're doing saving to config straight away that's probably a bad idea (I did this in GMOSSE MK-III and navigating the Options Menu was irritating at best) so best be saving to file only when leaving the actual menu for that section (like I do now thanks to how Nimitz coded the joystick support among other things).

That's my bad =( Need to be fixed, yeah. Thank you for pointing out because I forgot about it.

[tiaoferreira]

Very hard game. And very funny, too. Congratulations.

[BPzeBanshee]

though maybe that's just because now it's more difficult to actually scrape against bullets now that it only seems to actually have an effect every 10 frames.

It's not like that. Scrape effect now directly calculates from how fast the bullet is. So, scraping slow bullets gives you MUCH less energy now, and scraping fast bullets gives you A LOT. The most hellish scrape comes from enemies' beams. Also, homing bullets have large bonus for scraping (understandable why, I hope).

This isn't the impression I got. In the previous release the ticking/grazing effect happened more with the bullets when going up against them, and gives me the impression that I'm doing it right and getting something, whereas now it just seems like you've limited it somehow and I'm not getting as much as before. My main point here really was just that grazing effect, I was there moving around thinking I was doing something off because it wasn't "ticking" as much.

[Y2135]

I think it's mostly because of changed sound management of scraping process. Spark sound happens from time to time while scraping - more bullets around more sparks to appear. Sound of hot waving happens all time during scraping. In future builds the whole process will be more intuitive due to special effects I've added to reflect mechanics.

[BPzeBanshee]

Ah, ok. I suppose I liked the spark sound happening all the time when scraping to give me a feeling that I'm actually scraping against something. Minor nitpick with a generally good game, keep it up!

[Y2135]

I understand you totally, but there is a reason for not sparking all the time - I try to encourage player not to just buzz (like psyvariar) but shoot the enemies while buzzing. Then Karma reactor short-circuiting and incoming score goes high and it is sparking much more =)

These screenshots are from complete stage 1 on normal difficulty, it is possible to see short-circuiting there. For additional detail there is E.C.B. (Energy Circulation Balance) indicator (left from game window) that shows you how much energy (related to spent by player) is scraping from bullets around: Of course pics are nothing to movies but for my pc screen-capturing is a tough task so I don't create many vids lately.

Counter-attacking small ships while scraping their projectiles. Small/moderate multiplier and good scoring:




Shooting at two enemies at once while scraping their both shots. ECB is high and so is the score incoming. Sparking and ticking as hell:


In conclusion, again: to scrape large amounts of energy (and score) you need to be in center of many bullets or near the fast ones. Of course to be in center of many fast bullets is the best, but close to impossible. For common players scraping is not necessary- just fill karma reactor, blast away all enemies, collect medals and receive permanent multiplier (until you die).

[RNGmaster]

Managed to get 4148031, Grade D. I don't much like the idea of grading since it's impossible to hit all enemies and interferes with grazing. Medals are now almost worthless, so much so that the only way I found to get a really high score was to graze popcorn enemies' bullets and kill them at the same time. That's fun, since it can raise your multiplier into the stratosphere (once I got 300k from 1 or two groups of popcorns), but the multiplier goes away immediately after you stop grazing, so scoring as it is is a matter of frustratingly precise positioning. Adding more patterns would make this a bit easier, but as it is the scoring system is kind of messed up.

Suggestions to rework it:

- Make medals add to the multiplier a lot, since they're hard to get and they seem to serve some purpose.
- Make it so scratch damage is multiplied by the same amount as an enemy's point value. This way, you could score a lot by grazing one of the big enemies and shooting at it.
- Make graze multiplier worth less, since as it is the only balance for it is that it's so hard to kill an enemy while it's active.
- Make it so chain reactions don't reset the graze multiplier. (Accidentally activating a chain reaction while I was trying to shoot something is particularly frustrating to me.) Better yet, make enemies killed with the chain reaction worth something again.
- Depower chain reactions a bit. As it stands, they kill off large enemies too quickly, and that gets rid of an opportunity to graze them.

One last idea: The separate scoring ideas you proposed are nice, but what about combining some or all of those ideas into one mode?
This way, instead of the scoring path being graze>kill popcorns>speedkill big enemies to survive, it could be something like graze to fill karma reactor>chain reaction>grab medals>graze big enemies and shoot until next chain reaction.

[Y2135]

Managed to get 4148031, Grade D

strange, this top score already was there, how did you manage to receive the same up to seventh digit.