Best master system games???

[doctorx0079]

The problem with Golvellius is that there's a lot of "Wandering without having any idea of what the heck to do next".

This is a *very* good synopsis of the biggest problem with Golvellius. Not the only problem, mind you...no, far from it. But it is the biggest problem with the game as a whole. "Puzzles" have clues, or at least some semblance of a direction in which to go in. I can remember completely maxing out my character with everything the game had to offer at multiple points, *just to see* if there was something that I might have been missing that might allow me to progress further. Replaying boss levels to see if I got a different result. Nope! The only ways to progress were basically random "You can only know this if you already know this!" things. What a bass-ackwards way to develop a game.

To the adjacent poster: I don't like being led around by the nose myself...the thrill of discovery should be just that: a thrill. There is, however, a difference between giving subtle clues which, in retrospect *should have* allowed me to uncover the correct path to progress, and giving no clues at all, as well as making a player do things in a *very* exacting way with no way to know any of it. That's reprehensible. That's Golvellius!

Okay, that's going too far. If I get stuck for hours because I don't want to read the FAQ, that sucks. That's bad game design right there.

[Shatterhand]

The problem with Golvellius is that there's a lot of "Wandering without having any idea of what the heck to do next".

This is a *very* good synopsis of the biggest problem with Golvellius. Not the only problem, mind you...no, far from it. But it is the biggest problem with the game as a whole. "Puzzles" have clues, or at least some semblance of a direction in which to go in. I can remember completely maxing out my character with everything the game had to offer at multiple points, *just to see* if there was something that I might have been missing that might allow me to progress further. Replaying boss levels to see if I got a different result. Nope! The only ways to progress were basically random "You can only know this if you already know this!" things. What a bass-ackwards way to develop a game.

To the adjacent poster: I don't like being led around by the nose myself...the thrill of discovery should be just that: a thrill. There is, however, a difference between giving subtle clues which, in retrospect *should have* allowed me to uncover the correct path to progress, and giving no clues at all, as well as making a player do things in a *very* exacting way with no way to know any of it. That's reprehensible. That's Golvellius!

Okay, that's going too far. If I get stuck for hours because I don't want to read the FAQ, that sucks. That's bad game design right there.

"Hours" is not enough.

We are talking about stuff like "Hit every wall tile on every room hoping that something will open" and "leave a room and get back to it 5 times in a row to open a door". It's lots of nonsense stuff... the game doesn't make you think, it makes you do all kinds of random and weird stuff in hope that something will work. There are places that will only open if you hit a certain stone in a certain place lots of times, and there are NO CLUES about this. And it's not like you are stuck in a room with no way out (Like it happens in Metal Gear, and even there someone gives you a tip).. the stone is in a room just like any other, and you don't even know you actually have to open something on that specific room.

I've played like 80% of the game, and got stuck... I've tried every kind of weird shit, and nothing worked. I have no idea of what the heck I was supposed to do to find the 6th monster cave. I had a magazine with a map that pointed where the caves were supposed to open, and without that, I am pretty sure I wouldn't get that far. And I played this game a lot (It's funny how from time to time I remember some shitty game I played for hours and hours when I was a child... I really had lots of free time in my childhood )

[null1024]

The SMS/GG Sonic platformers largely went downhill after the original. Sonic 1 is better than Sonic 2 is better than Sonic Chaos, then the quality shot up for Triple Trouble before dropping all the way down to G Sonic.

Sonic Chaos is a metric fuckton better than Sonic 1 and 2 GG/SMS.
G Sonic sucked loads, but not as much as Sonic 2. Seriously, at least I could stand playing through G Sonic for a bit. Sonic 2 made me want to kill babies. Sonic 1 was just meh, it didn't suck, but it wasn't too special.

Triple Trouble was great though, one of my favorite GG games ever.

[Shatterhand]

The SMS/GG Sonic platformers largely went downhill after the original. Sonic 1 is better than Sonic 2 is better than Sonic Chaos, then the quality shot up for Triple Trouble before dropping all the way down to G Sonic.

Sonic Chaos is a metric fuckton better than Sonic 1 and 2 GG/SMS.
G Sonic sucked loads, but not as much as Sonic 2. Seriously, at least I could stand playing through G Sonic for a bit. Sonic 2 made me want to kill babies. Sonic 1 was just meh, it didn't suck, but it wasn't too special.

Triple Trouble was great though, one of my favorite GG games ever.

Sonic Chaos usually never had more than 2 sprites moving at screen at the same time. How the heck can you make a good game with just 2 sprites on screen? The game completely lacks any action, most of the game is compromised of you dodging scenery.

[boagman]

This is a *very* good synopsis of the biggest problem with Golvellius. Not the only problem, mind you...no, far from it. But it is the biggest problem with the game as a whole. "Puzzles" have clues, or at least some semblance of a direction in which to go in. I can remember completely maxing out my character with everything the game had to offer at multiple points, *just to see* if there was something that I might have been missing that might allow me to progress further. Replaying boss levels to see if I got a different result. Nope! The only ways to progress were basically random "You can only know this if you already know this!" things. What a bass-ackwards way to develop a game.

To the adjacent poster: I don't like being led around by the nose myself...the thrill of discovery should be just that: a thrill. There is, however, a difference between giving subtle clues which, in retrospect *should have* allowed me to uncover the correct path to progress, and giving no clues at all, as well as making a player do things in a *very* exacting way with no way to know any of it. That's reprehensible. That's Golvellius!

Okay, that's going too far. If I get stuck for hours because I don't want to read the FAQ, that sucks. That's bad game design right there.

"Hours" is not enough.

We are talking about stuff like "Hit every wall tile on every room hoping that something will open" and "leave a room and get back to it 5 times in a row to open a door". It's lots of nonsense stuff... the game doesn't make you think, it makes you do all kinds of random and weird stuff in hope that something will work. There are places that will only open if you hit a certain stone in a certain place lots of times, and there are NO CLUES about this. And it's not like you are stuck in a room with no way out (Like it happens in Metal Gear, and even there someone gives you a tip).. the stone is in a room just like any other, and you don't even know you actually have to open something on that specific room.

I've played like 80% of the game, and got stuck... I've tried every kind of weird shit, and nothing worked. I have no idea of what the heck I was supposed to do to find the 6th monster cave. I had a magazine with a map that pointed where the caves were supposed to open, and without that, I am pretty sure I wouldn't get that far. And I played this game a lot (It's funny how from time to time I remember some shitty game I played for hours and hours when I was a child... I really had lots of free time in my childhood )

Oh, thank heaven there's someone out there who truly "gets it" the way I do. Your description is dead-on accurate, and there was even far worse stuff than what you describe. This is the game that colored all RPGs for me, and I've never played one since. No desire at all.

[Herr Schatten]

The SMS/GG Sonic platformers largely went downhill after the original. Sonic 1 is better than Sonic 2 is better than Sonic Chaos, then the quality shot up for Triple Trouble before dropping all the way down to G Sonic.

Sonic Chaos is a metric fuckton better than Sonic 1 and 2 GG/SMS.
G Sonic sucked loads, but not as much as Sonic 2. Seriously, at least I could stand playing through G Sonic for a bit. Sonic 2 made me want to kill babies. Sonic 1 was just meh, it didn't suck, but it wasn't too special.

Triple Trouble was great though, one of my favorite GG games ever.

Sonic Chaos usually never had more than 2 sprites moving at screen at the same time. How the heck can you make a good game with just 2 sprites on screen? The game completely lacks any action, most of the game is compromised of you dodging scenery.

Additionally, it has terribly jerky scrolling that makes it really hard to see what's going on, and it's so easy that I actually completed it on my first try ever (didn't bother to search for the chaos emeralds, though). I haven't touched it ever since. Sonic 1, on the other hand, has some of the best and most careful level designs I've ever experienced in any classic platformer. That's quality work right there.

[BrianC]

Admittedly I haven't played much of either, but my assumption was that Golvellius (odd platforming segments and all) was the better game. I doubt the SMS and MSX versions are too different, but that's also worth checking out, perhaps.

They are similar in gameplay, but all three versions have different overworld and dungeon layouts. The MSX2 version has a town at the beginning of the game that isn't in other versions.

I agree with the sentiments on Sonic 1. It's the only Sonic designed by Ancient with music from Yuzo Kushiro. It's good stuff and plays very nicely on US systems, as well. G Sonic is also on Master System, but it's one of those odd Brazillian only quickie GG ports (and this one was only released under the western name, Sonic Blast), so it probably sucks as much as the GG one. It also has issues with early SMS systems (all regions) and the Power Base Converter due to the 8 meg cartridge size.

[BrianC]

"Hours" is not enough.

We are talking about stuff like "Hit every wall tile on every room hoping that something will open" and "leave a room and get back to it 5 times in a row to open a door". It's lots of nonsense stuff... the game doesn't make you think, it makes you do all kinds of random and weird stuff in hope that something will work. There are places that will only open if you hit a certain stone in a certain place lots of times, and there are NO CLUES about this. And it's not like you are stuck in a room with no way out (Like it happens in Metal Gear, and even there someone gives you a tip).. the stone is in a room just like any other, and you don't even know you actually have to open something on that specific room.

I've played like 80% of the game, and got stuck... I've tried every kind of weird shit, and nothing worked. I have no idea of what the heck I was supposed to do to find the 6th monster cave. I had a magazine with a map that pointed where the caves were supposed to open, and without that, I am pretty sure I wouldn't get that far. And I played this game a lot (It's funny how from time to time I remember some shitty game I played for hours and hours when I was a child... I really had lots of free time in my childhood )

I know this reply is a bit late, but I just beat Golvellius SMS without help from a FAQ. There is nothing nearly as bad as what you and boagman are describing in the SMS version. Most of the harder "puzzles" (in quotes since they consist mostly of simply hitting or killing things) have clues telling you exactly what to do, there are only a few possible objects to hit for an entrance, many enternces are found just killing enemies, the places with the crystals are places in a level where an entrance couldn't be found before beating a boss, and most things only have to be hit once or twice to open a door.

I just tried a bit of the MSX1 Golvellius. It seems to be much harder off the bat compared to the SMS one. Some enemies that don't appear until later appear right away in the MSX1 version. Another thing I notice once I set BlueMSX to Japanese MSX is that the game seems to scroll pretty smooth for a MSX1 game.