Japan & radioactive products!

[ST Dragon]

Japan & Radioactive Products!

After the tragic events that occurred this March in Japan and lead to the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster, recent studies revealed that it’s now on a par with Chernobyl! A very large part of the country was covered with radioactive particles & radiation carried by the wind & water, the sea was contaminated with the radioactive waste from the power plants and even the Tokyo public water supplies were contaminated! As a result many local Japanese heavy industry factories like SONY, Canon, Toshiba, etc… ceased production and closed down and only restarted production recently.

It’s obvious that edible & biological goods, like fish, vegetables, meat, soya, noodles, etc… from Japan should be avoided, but what about other mechanical / electronic / paper, textiles & non-biological products made in Japan like TVs, digital Cameras, consoles, computers, cars, DVDs, comics, clothes, etc… or even older / used products like video games, books, DVDs, computer / console hardware, etc… that had been stocked in Japan?!
Shouldn’t all these also be considered dangerous for public health as their parts (or as a whole) could have been exposed to radiation and contaminated with radioactive particles that recently covered the entire country and surrounding area?!

For example how safe would it be to buy one of these, which is made in Japan:
http://www.canon-europe.com/For_Home/Pr ... rShot_S95/

I would really like to get some valid scientific answers concerning these queries and even get some valid scientific / encyclopaedia links that will clear up these matters.

Thanks in advance.

[Chacranajxy]

Well I definitely think there are reasons to avoid Playstation 3.

[maxlords]

I think you're overly worried. If they surpassed radiation standards, they wouldn't sell them.

[greg]

Yes, you are worried for no reason. That camera you want to buy is not at all like a broccoli plant that has been outside soaking in contaminated dust particles. It's been in a box, on a shelf for this whole time. Go ahead and buy your camera, but please, promise me that you will not eat the box it is packaged in. It's best to still be safe than sorry.

[ST Dragon]

Actually for scientific reasons, I wouldn't mind owning a meter / monitoring equipment which can pick up ionizing radiation. I've used these cool toys in the lab back during my Uni / student years and they're really cool. But do they actually sell them commercially for the public?!

[DEL]

ST Dragon wrote;

recent studies revealed that it’s now on a par with Chernobyl!

Chernobyl has been in my sig for a while now. I am curious to see how Fukushima could possibly be anywhere near as bad? I know they upgraded it to a level 7 (max - same as Chernobyl), but Chernobyl has an exposed core with 120-135 tonnes of Uranium & Plutonium open to the sky. With radioactive release not less than 20 times that of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
These Fukushima links would be appreciated.

With regards to products coming out of Japan, there is one interesting thing announced by the company I'm working for. They source Zebra G Series receipt printers from Japan, but an emergency announcement states that these 'latest gen' printers will suddenly no longer be available due to the disaster in Japan. They mention the tsunami in the statement, but could it be....?

[ST Dragon]

ST Dragon wrote;

recent studies revealed that it’s now on a par with Chernobyl!

Chernobyl has been in my sig for a while now. I am curious to see how Fukushima could possibly be anywhere near as bad? I know they upgraded it to a level 7 (max - same as Chernobyl), but Chernobyl has an exposed core with 120-135 tonnes of Uranium & Plutonium open to the sky. With radioactive release not less than 20 times that of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
These Fukushima links would be appreciated.

With regards to products coming out of Japan, there is one interesting thing announced by the company I'm working for. They source Zebra G Series receipt printers from Japan, but an emergency announcement states that these 'latest gen' printers will suddenly no longer be available due to the disaster in Japan. They mention the tsunami in the statement, but could it be....?

I don't think there is any guarantee that all these products get checked or get decontaminated before they leave Japan or at the customs of each country they arrive to. Who can trust corporations, merchants or governments anyway?! All they care for is the $$. They wouldn't give jack-squat for public health let alone go into all this trouble & waste money checking / decontaminating the products.

These Fukushima links would be appreciated.

Sure, here you go:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 66935.html

and here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_ ... r_disaster

Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster

"Based on worldwide measurements of iodine-131 and caesium-137, it was suggested that the releases of those isotopes from Fukushima are of the same order of magnitude as those from Chernobyl in 1986;"

Radiation levels and radioactive contamination

"although the details of the [Chernobyl and Fukushima] accidents are different, from the standpoint of how much radiation has been released, [Fukushima] is equal to or more serious than Chernobyl"

Accident rating

"Prior to Fukushima, the Chernobyl disaster was the only level 7 accident on record, while the Three Mile Island accident was a level 5 accident."

[TransatlanticFoe]

The term "radiation" scares the crap out of people and this saddens me. Education regarding "radiation" is limited (for instance, the term MRI is actually "nuclear magnetic resonance imaging" but omits references to "nuclear" because most people associate it with nukes and Chernobyl) and the media do their best to scaremonger.

Alpha and beta radiation (CRT TVs work using beta radiation!) is relatively short-lived and generally only harmful if ingested (hence the ban on local foodstuffs in the wake of Fukushima), as alpha radiation cannot penetrate a few feet or air and beta is stopped by a thin sheet of metal - so the materials which are actually radioactive pose little threat. As a simple comparison, the main threat would be accumulation in the ecosystem in a similar way to the pesticide DDT - this could persist for years but Japanese authorities are in the midst of a cleanup operation.

Certainly in the UK, there are areas where the natural background radiation is higher than levels permitted for nuclear power stations - but this isn't cause for panic (or maybe that's just because it's not widely reported). In terms of Japan, you'd have to be very unlucky (or drinking water from right by the reactors) to receive a high enough dose in food or water to cause harm.

Ultimately, Japan isn't a third-world country. They're not lax in their nuclear safety measures and you will not find contaminated products for sale by any semi-reputable person or company. Don't be afraid to buy Japanese products - anything which is deemed suspect as a result of Fukushima will have already been withdrawn.

[moozooh]

Actually for scientific reasons, I wouldn't mind owning a meter / monitoring equipment which can pick up ionizing radiation. I've used these cool toys in the lab back during my Uni / student years and they're really cool. But do they actually sell them commercially for the public?!

Lol.

They're not toys you dummy, they're useful tools and of course you can buy them.

[psy]

Oh no, there was a nuclear disaster in Japan, this must automatically mean that all of Japan is fucked and everything in Japan is contaminated.

I'm pretty sure people didn't refrain from buying all Ukraine produced goods because of what happened at Chernobyl.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

(EDIT) Quickly everyone! we must buy all their games to save them for certain doom. Im creating a special charity called SAVE THE PCBs FUND where all every PCB saved from radiation hell will be lovingly stored at the other side of the world in a safe place (my house). If this is a success ill also start a SAVE THE CAVE BOXES FUND.

Donate now for such a worthy cause


On another note. Im curious as to how big the Japanese food industry is and how badly hit their export market is hit? Ild expect atleast their fishing industry to be in dire straits

[Skykid]

(EDIT) Quickly everyone! we must buy all their games to save them for certain doom. Im creating a special charity called SAVE THE PCBs FUND where all every PCB saved from radiation hell will be lovingly stored at the other side of the world in a safe place (my house). If this is a success ill also start a SAVE THE CAVE BOXES FUND.

Donate now for such a worthy cause


On another note. Im curious as to how big the Japanese food industry is and how badly hit their export market is hit? Ild expect atleast their fishing industry to be in dire straits

Bar an enormous fishing industry, I thought Japan didn't have much in the way of food industries and agriculture.
They import a lot of beef from Australia and fruit from other parts of asia afaik.

[ED-057]

oh dear! is it still safe to download stuff from Japanese websites?

[DEL]

ED-057 wrote;

oh dear! is it still safe to download stuff from Japanese websites?

No, you'll get a savage dose of Gamma.
ST Dragon wrote;

"Based on worldwide measurements of iodine-131 and caesium-137, it was suggested that the releases of those isotopes from Fukushima are of the same order of magnitude as those from Chernobyl in 1986;"

^Yes I see that on Wikipedia.
I also see 1/10th the radioactive release of Chernobyl in the other link.
That's still scary though...

Watch the Chernobyl Best Documentary in my sig. Morbidly fascinating. I've watched it three times so far, since its release on March 11th.

[moozooh]

Don't forget that Chernobyl's radiation release was done in practically one go, reaching maximum concentration instantly, while Fukushima's was gradual, letting a decent amount of the short-lived isotopes (with half-lives less than a month) decompose before reaching food or drinking water or whatever. Also, Chernobyl's release was into the atmosphere, while Fukushima's was largely into the ocean, which is a slower, more viscous medium. Even if Fukushima has released more radiation in absolute counts, it doesn't mean the actual release was more harmful for humanity as a whole.

[GaijinPunch]

Actually for scientific reasons, I wouldn't mind owning a meter / monitoring equipment which can pick up ionizing radiation. I've used these cool toys in the lab back during my Uni / student years and they're really cool. But do they actually sell them commercially for the public?!

Then do it. People (amateurs) are doing it in droves here. I wouldn't say avoid "food product from Japan" but you should know your prefectures. The "standard practice" (I say that b/c my family and most of my friends practice it) are avoiding produce from the following prefectures:

Chiba, Tochigi, Ibaraki, Fukushima, Miyagi

That's pretty much about it. Some are cutting down on fish, but I'm still eating about the same. You can go to Ustream and see a million Geiger counters from all over Japan.

[greg]

They import a lot of beef from Australia and fruit from other parts of asia afaik.

Do you know if Australia/New Zealand/Tasmania pumps their cattle full of growth hormones and antibiotics? I'm pretty sure Japan does not. I'm hoping that Monsanto doesn't have its evil clutches on Australia, Tasmania, or New Zealand.

[Skykid]

They import a lot of beef from Australia and fruit from other parts of asia afaik.

Do you know if Australia/New Zealand/Tasmania pumps their cattle full of growth hormones and antibiotics? I'm pretty sure Japan does not.

No idea, but I know Japan imports a lot of foodstuffs from Australia (or at least so I was told by an Australian living in Japan who used to be a farmer... in Australia.)

[Nico87]

I bought a Famicom game from YJA the day after the Fukushima thing and recieved it 7 days later. I ain't dead.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

They import a lot of beef from Australia and fruit from other parts of asia afaik.

Do you know if Australia/New Zealand/Tasmania pumps their cattle full of growth hormones and antibiotics? I'm pretty sure Japan does not.

No idea, but I know Japan imports a lot of foodstuffs from Australia (or at least so I was told by an Australian living in Japan who used to be a farmer... in Australia.)

I know bugger all about the subject myself but ild always imagined Japan to have some similarities to the UK where we import much of our food, but also export well known brands and delicacies.

Ild expect the Pocky Stick export industry would be even bigger than Heinz Ketchup given the number of weeaboos everywhere

[rugdoctor]

Watched a "60 minutes" piece on Chernobyl and Fukushima nuclear disasters and the bottom line is that BOTH reactor cores are still bad and the only way to stabilise the leaching is to bury the reactors with concrete and other high density shit till the end of days and whats more is that the layers are continually re-lined, like an ongoing sarcophagus.

The nuclear debris in various concentration has already circled the globe (either atmospheric or introduced into the food chain through soil/water/air contamination). So we all definitely have bits of chernobyl particles in our body and now we should be receiving fukushimas soon if not already.

I guess the safest way to know whether any goods from japan is radioactive ok or not is to get validation geiger counts before dispatch??

[ST Dragon]

The term "radiation" scares the crap out of people and this saddens me. Education regarding "radiation" is limited (for instance, the term MRI is actually "nuclear magnetic resonance imaging" but omits references to "nuclear" because most people associate it with nukes and Chernobyl) and the media do their best to scaremonger.

Alpha and beta radiation (CRT TVs work using beta radiation!) is relatively short-lived and generally only harmful if ingested (hence the ban on local foodstuffs in the wake of Fukushima), as alpha radiation cannot penetrate a few feet or air and beta is stopped by a thin sheet of metal - so the materials which are actually radioactive pose little threat. As a simple comparison, the main threat would be accumulation in the ecosystem in a similar way to the pesticide DDT - this could persist for years but Japanese authorities are in the midst of a cleanup operation.

Certainly in the UK, there are areas where the natural background radiation is higher than levels permitted for nuclear power stations - but this isn't cause for panic (or maybe that's just because it's not widely reported). In terms of Japan, you'd have to be very unlucky (or drinking water from right by the reactors) to receive a high enough dose in food or water to cause harm.

Ultimately, Japan isn't a third-world country. They're not lax in their nuclear safety measures and you will not find contaminated products for sale by any semi-reputable person or company. Don't be afraid to buy Japanese products - anything which is deemed suspect as a result of Fukushima will have already been withdrawn.

Question:

Do Beta & Gamma radiation & particles always have a short decay time (short-lived / short half-life) & high energy, while Alpha radiation / particles is the exact opposite?
Is this a scientific fact or does it depend of whether its a high-energy particle or not and Does it go like this?

Alpha Radiation = low energy / long half-life, low penetrating power.
Beta Radiation = Higher Energy, shorter half-life, higher penetration
Gamma Radiation = High Energy, short half-life, high penetration

Or are there alpha radiation / particles that also have a High Energy, short half-life, high penetration like Beta & Gamma?

[Lordstar]

I'm pretty sure people didn't refrain from buying all Ukraine produced goods because of what happened at Chernobyl.

The Ukarine produce goods? wow its the first ive heard of this. Seriously though its owrrying over nothing.

[ST Dragon]

Actually for scientific reasons, I wouldn't mind owning a meter / monitoring equipment which can pick up ionizing radiation. I've used these cool toys in the lab back during my Uni / student years and they're really cool. But do they actually sell them commercially for the public?!

Then do it. People (amateurs) are doing it in droves here. I wouldn't say avoid "food product from Japan" but you should know your prefectures. The "standard practice" (I say that b/c my family and most of my friends practice it) are avoiding produce from the following prefectures:

Chiba, Tochigi, Ibaraki, Fukushima, Miyagi

That's pretty much about it. Some are cutting down on fish, but I'm still eating about the same. You can go to Ustream and see a million Geiger counters from all over Japan.

Thanks for the useful info!
You wouldn't happen to know in what prefecture Canon produces their digital cameras like the one I linked?

Thanks in advance!

[TransatlanticFoe]

Question:

Do Beta & Gamma radiation & particles always have a short decay time (short-lived / short half-life) & high energy, while Alpha radiation / particles is the exact opposite?
Is this a scientific fact or does it depend of whether its a high-energy particle or not and Does it go like this?

Alpha Radiation = low energy / long half-life, low penetrating power.
Beta Radiation = Higher Energy, shorter half-life, higher penetration
Gamma Radiation = High Energy, short half-life, high penetration

Or are there alpha radiation / particles that also have a High Energy, short half-life, high penetration like Beta & Gamma?

The main distinction is that alpha and beta are ionised particles, whilst gamma is electromagnetic radiation.

Alpha and beta radiation are charged particles - a helium nucleus (+ charge) and high energy electron (- charge) respectively. As they are ions, they are strongly ionising when they come into contact with organic tissue. Although if the air doesn't stop it, the outer (dead) layer of skin will block alpha radiation but if ingested it's highly dangerous. Beta radiation penetrates enough to go through the skin but its effects will be concentrated on the upper skin layer (burns and skin cancers). Gamma radiation is part of the electromagnetic spectrum and has a shorter wavelength (higher energy) than X-rays, which are in turn shorter than UV rays - so that gives you an idea of its penetrating power (UV gets through a few layers of skin whilst X-rays pass through organic tissue). However, as it is not strongly ionising radiation its damage capability is lower in direct comparison with alpha and beta - but its short wavelength means it is capable of damaging multiple cells as a gamma photon passes through organic tissue. Hence why gamma in general is considered the worst - sources of gamma radiation stick around for many years and the radiation is particularly nasty because although "weaker" than alpha and beta, it is much more difficult to stop and capable of dealing more diffuse damage to organic tissue.

Alpha - strongly ionising, short lived (days), stopped by a sheet of paper or a few feet of air
Beta - moderately ionising, medium lived (months, years), stopped by a thin sheet of metal
Gamma - weakly ionising, long lived (hundreds, thousands of years), stopped by a few inches of lead

Note - when I talk about lifetimes, I mean the length of time the radiation is released from the radioactive source. A radioactive substance can only have so many atoms decay (releasing radiation) before it loses its radioactivity. So the lifetimes are not for the radiation itself, rather the source. Times are rough, as different materials decay in a different fashion and may produce multiple types of radiation over different times. The above timescales are generally the case.

To be clear on half life - this is the time taken for half of the atoms in a radioactive material to decay. So although half lives are quoted, radioactive material is still very dangerous after its half life. Another half life further halves the remaining radioactive atoms and so on (statistically you can never get zero by halving repeatedly, but you eventually get down to background levels). If something has a half life of a month, it is still going to be undergoing potential radioactive decay for a few more months.

[Ex-Cyber]

(statistically you can never get zero by halving repeatedly, but you eventually get down to background levels)

The trick is that it's not strictly halving repeatedly, but rather that each atom has a 50% chance of decaying within its half-life. When you have lots of atoms in a sample, the individual variation in decay times averages out and you see a halving each half-life. Once you're down to a few atoms, though, they could very well all decay in less than the half-life or all last longer than the half-life.

[ST Dragon]

Question:

Do Beta & Gamma radiation & particles always have a short decay time (short-lived / short half-life) & high energy, while Alpha radiation / particles is the exact opposite?
Is this a scientific fact or does it depend of whether its a high-energy particle or not and Does it go like this?

Alpha Radiation = low energy / long half-life, low penetrating power.
Beta Radiation = Higher Energy, shorter half-life, higher penetration
Gamma Radiation = High Energy, short half-life, high penetration

Or are there alpha radiation / particles that also have a High Energy, short half-life, high penetration like Beta & Gamma?

The main distinction is that alpha and beta are ionised particles, whilst gamma is electromagnetic radiation.

Alpha and beta radiation are charged particles - a helium nucleus (+ charge) and high energy electron (- charge) respectively. As they are ions, they are strongly ionising when they come into contact with organic tissue. Although if the air doesn't stop it, the outer (dead) layer of skin will block alpha radiation but if ingested it's highly dangerous. Beta radiation penetrates enough to go through the skin but its effects will be concentrated on the upper skin layer (burns and skin cancers). Gamma radiation is part of the electromagnetic spectrum and has a shorter wavelength (higher energy) than X-rays, which are in turn shorter than UV rays - so that gives you an idea of its penetrating power (UV gets through a few layers of skin whilst X-rays pass through organic tissue). However, as it is not strongly ionising radiation its damage capability is lower in direct comparison with alpha and beta - but its short wavelength means it is capable of damaging multiple cells as a gamma photon passes through organic tissue. Hence why gamma in general is considered the worst - sources of gamma radiation stick around for many years and the radiation is particularly nasty because although "weaker" than alpha and beta, it is much more difficult to stop and capable of dealing more diffuse damage to organic tissue.

Alpha - strongly ionising, short lived (days), stopped by a sheet of paper or a few feet of air
Beta - moderately ionising, medium lived (months, years), stopped by a thin sheet of metal
Gamma - weakly ionising, long lived (hundreds, thousands of years), stopped by a few inches of lead

Note - when I talk about lifetimes, I mean the length of time the radiation is released from the radioactive source. A radioactive substance can only have so many atoms decay (releasing radiation) before it loses its radioactivity. So the lifetimes are not for the radiation itself, rather the source. Times are rough, as different materials decay in a different fashion and may produce multiple types of radiation over different times. The above timescales are generally the case.

To be clear on half life - this is the time taken for half of the atoms in a radioactive material to decay. So although half lives are quoted, radioactive material is still very dangerous after its half life. Another half life further halves the remaining radioactive atoms and so on (statistically you can never get zero by halving repeatedly, but you eventually get down to background levels). If something has a half life of a month, it is still going to be undergoing potential radioactive decay for a few more months.

Very interesting! Thanks for clearing that up!
So, which of the above types of radiation & particles leaked into the environment from the Fukushima Daiichi disaster?

[moozooh]

All of them obviously. As you're not even living in Japan you only need to worry about gamma.

[evil_ash_xero]

I just bought 3 games from Japan. I wonder if i'll start to glow soon?

[LtC]

Fun fact: You are breathing radioactive gas right now, you've been breathing it your entire life. Over half of your lifetime radiation dosage comes from radon which is a product from uranium decay chain.