Which Darius games do you like in the series?

tinotormed · Post by **tinotormed** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:05 am

Darius is another great hori series released by Taito in 1986. It's latest incarnation came out with Darius Burst in 2009, with the arcade port, subtitled 'Another Chronicle, released in 2010. To celebrate the series' 25th anniversary, vote for which Darius games have been your favorite in the series. You may choose your top 3 ONLY. Games are arranged in chronological releases.

ChainsawGuitarSP · Post by **ChainsawGuitarSP** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:28 am

I bet people wouldn't think so highly of Gaiden if they didn't cheat it with auto fire. Darius II is the best in every possible way I can think of.

Drum · Post by **Drum** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:42 am

They are all pretty lousy, except for Gaiden because it has nice graphix/music. EDIT: and autofire.

Kollision · Post by **Kollision** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:45 am

ChainsawGuitarSP wrote:I bet people wouldn't think so highly of Gaiden if they didn't cheat it with auto fire.

I think it's exactly the opposite.
The game is perfectly doable without cheats.
BTW, I can't vote because I haven't played G Darius deeply yet. If I were to vote, I'd choose Gaiden for its merits as a game. Considering nostalgia, it will always be Darius II for me, MD version.

sunburstbasser · Post by **sunburstbasser** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:53 am

Gaiden with or without autofire is my favorite.

G.Darius is close behind.

I voted for Darius II as well, though I overall prefer the PCE CD port Super Darius II, in spite of the squished play area.

I like all of the Darius games, personally.

ChainsawGuitarSP · Post by **ChainsawGuitarSP** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:54 am

Kollision wrote:
ChainsawGuitarSP wrote:I bet people wouldn't think so highly of Gaiden if they didn't cheat it with auto fire.
I think it's exactly the opposite.
The game is perfectly doable without cheats.

Oh, I'm perfectly aware it's doable. I 1cc'd it myself without the use of auto fire. However, if you were to ask everyone else to replay their routes with it turned off I'm pretty sure there would be quite a bit of bitching and moaning and not a lot of progress. :V

MathU · Post by **MathU** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:37 am

The earlier Darius games were pretty mediocre shooters in my honest opinion. The multiple-screen display was a gimmick, and they were absurdly punishing. You can really feel how much the games loathe you when you die even once. I don't really understand how they ever got popular enough to warrant their many, many console ports.

But all that changed with Gaiden. It's almost hard to believe just how good Darius Gaiden is. Taito practically did a 180 and made some excellent design changes for the better. They really started making some fantastic games in the early '90s, and I think Gaiden is their crowning achievement. It's not just their best game; it's one of the best horizontal shooters around.

That said, I have no idea why people praise G-Darius so much. Taito discarded a bunch of the innovations that made Gaiden great (particularly a more FORGIVING POWER-UP SYSTEM) and focused on the highly gimmicky mechanic of enemy capture. Perhaps if they had made Gaiden ("side story") into full-fledged Darius 3 the innovations would have stuck better.

I haven't played Burst, but it appears like they've repeated the same mistakes just for nostalgia's sake (especially with the return to multiple-screen displays).

ChainsawGuitarSP wrote:I bet people wouldn't think so highly of Gaiden if they didn't cheat it with auto fire.

It really is a shame how often people use auto-fire cheats with this game. They're missing out.

CIT · Post by **CIT** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:15 am

I love the entire series, its weird atmosphere, the awesome experimental music, and the flow of the games, which allows for a little more ad-lib style play than the other classic horizontal series Gradius and R-Type.

I voted for Darius II, Darius Gaiden and G Darius, whereby I consider the latter the greatest in the series, as it has the best soundtrack and the most complex scoring mechanics.

Darius Burst was very good too, but not balanced so well. There was no scoring incentive to take the harder routes.

I think playing with autofire is necessary to fully enjoy the older games.

DMC · Post by **DMC** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:53 am

ChainsawGuitarSP wrote:I bet people wouldn't think so highly of Gaiden if they didn't cheat it with auto fire.

if you by cheating mean "to deceive, mislead or break accepted rules", you're very wrong. Although there has always been disagreement, it has clearly become convention to play Gaiden with rapid-fire. If you look at the rapid-fire top-players in DG, they are obviously very good players with top scores in other much more difficult games. For these people (or most DG players perhaps) I think it has little to do with difficulty, but simply that the majority use it and it's more fun to do so. The otherwise exciting and intense boss fights becomes way too long and boring without rapid-fire IMO.

My favourites are Darius Gaiden and G-Darius, very chill games!

ChainsawGuitarSP · Post by **ChainsawGuitarSP** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:29 am

Are you shitting me? auto fire rips through a bosses health before they can even unleash their most dangerous attacks. If you're so sure manually shooting the boss doesn't make them any harder, then show me your replay.
Any external tools used to assist your playing is cheating. There is no compromising it, even if people agree to allow it's usage.

Despatche · Post by **Despatche** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:43 am

Take Darius Alpha off the poll.

CIT wrote:Darius Burst was very good too, but not balanced so well. There was no scoring incentive to take the harder routes.

Which games do?

CIT wrote:I think playing with autofire is necessary to fully enjoy the older games.

I think playing with autofire is necessary to enjoy any Darius game.

There's a reason why all Darius games, in some form, give you autofire. So even with that out of the way, it's still stupid to think it's "cheating" in any way when all competition is based around it and its use is totally accepted. It has nothing to do with Darius Gaiden itself.

CIT · Post by **CIT** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:05 am

Despatche wrote:Take Darius Alpha off the poll.

CIT wrote:Darius Burst was very good too, but not balanced so well. There was no scoring incentive to take the harder routes.
Which games do?

In G Darius the routes get more difficult from top to bottom, while the scoring potential also increases.

CIT wrote:I think playing with autofire is necessary to fully enjoy the older games.
I think playing with autofire is necessary to enjoy any Darius game.

There's a reason why all Darius games, in some form, give you autofire. So even with that out of the way, it's still stupid to think it's "cheating" in any way when all competition is based around it and its use is totally accepted. It has nothing to do with Darius Gaiden itself.

Exactly. A score competition should be based on the skill of playing the game and not on the stamina of your finger muscles.

Despatche · Post by **Despatche** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:31 am

Cool. Gaiden really doesn't. Darius II doesn't seem to. Darius Force might count (lol).

We really need breakdowns on Darius stages... I'm sure the info is out there somewhere.

DMC · Post by **DMC** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:26 am

ChainsawGuitarSP wrote:If you're so sure manually shooting the boss doesn't make them any harder, then show me your replay

I didnt say that, you misread my post, or made a straw man argument.

Any external tools used to assist your playing is cheating. There is no compromising it, even if people agree to allow it's usage.

Where's the logic? If people agree on a set of rules, and everyone follows them, how is that cheating? What makes you privileged to decide what is cheating and what is not?

Why is this issue so sensitive to some people? It seems that some of us get really offended if a slight change from default is implemented, even if agreed upon by the vast majority. If the argument is, "we should play the game as the developer intended it to be played", then let me remind you that most games have modified rules over time. For instance, chess has changed dramatically over the years, and so have many sports games too. Regarding "external tools", it's the same thing. If the majority and/or the authorities decided rapid fire shouldn't be allowed, fine. Analogously, a particular swim suit was temporarily allowed in olympics; using that performance-improving tool was perfectly fine then, because it was agreed upon. It was only later that the rules changed, and using that suit became cheating again. That's how flexible game rules can be. In the end, they are there to make the competition fun and fair.

Herr Schatten · Post by **Herr Schatten** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:24 pm

You forgot the option "none of them".

I like big robotic fish as much as the next guy, but the best thing about Darius is that it inspired the powerup system in Katakis.

ChainsawGuitarSP · Post by **ChainsawGuitarSP** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:04 pm

DMC wrote:I didnt say that, you misread my post, or made a straw man argument.

Where's the logic? If people agree on a set of rules, and everyone follows them, how is that cheating? What makes you privileged to decide what is cheating and what is not?

Why is this issue so sensitive to some people? It seems that some of us get really offended if a slight change from default is implemented, even if agreed upon by the vast majority. If the argument is, "we should play the game as the developer intended it to be played", then let me remind you that most games have modified rules over time. For instance, chess has changed dramatically over the years, and so have many sports games too. Regarding "external tools", it's the same thing. If the majority and/or the authorities decided rapid fire shouldn't be allowed, fine. Analogously, a particular swim suit was temporarily allowed in olympics; using that performance-improving tool was perfectly fine then, because it was agreed upon. It was only later that the rules changed, and using that suit became cheating again. That's how flexible game rules can be. In the end, they are there to make the competition fun and fair.

Well I don't know what you meant by "boring" but boredom was not what I was feeling during the later bosses. It was more like adrenaline. Also, when the rules change in a video game, that usually tends to mean a new version is released. If Gaiden is too much for you without auto fire, go play Extra instead. If you insist on playing Gaiden, then for the love of god put a delay on the firing rate so as not to completely trivialize certain areas. Normally I wouldn't care for such arbitrary things like this, but in the case of Gaiden, it really does make a world of difference.

@:Herr: This thread is for fans of the series to discuss their favorites, not for hipsters to take an opportunity to point out "superior" offerings.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:08 pm

Why would anyone pick Alpha?

Kollision · Post by **Kollision** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:17 pm

Herr Schatten wrote:I like big robotic fish as much as the next guy, but the best thing about Darius is that it inspired the powerup system in Katakis.

ChainsawGuitarSP wrote:This thread is for fans of the series to discuss their favorites, not for hipsters to take an opportunity to point out "superior" offerings.

What's Katakis?
Sounds like a character from a Capcom obscure fighting game... Does he hadouken space fish?

Herr Schatten · Post by **Herr Schatten** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:07 pm

ChainsawGuitarSP wrote:This thread is for fans of the series to discuss their favorites, not for hipsters to take an opportunity to point out "superior" offerings.

Sorry, it seems I didn't read the original post thoroughly enough, and the title of the poll was a bit misleading. "None of them" seemed like a valid answer to the question "Which Darius games do you like in the series?" to me.

I'm in good company, though:

Drum, the hipster, wrote:They are all pretty lousy, except for Gaiden because it has nice graphix/music. EDIT: and autofire.

MadScientist · Post by **MadScientist** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:11 pm

Kollision wrote:What's Katakis?

A C64 game by Manfred 'Turrican' Trenz.

Speaking of games on Commodore systems, where's the option for Darius+ on the Amiga? Not that anybody would have voted for it of course, but hey, it exists (sadly).

DMC · Post by **DMC** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:46 pm

ChainsawGuitarSP wrote:Well I don't know what you meant by "boring" but boredom was not what I was feeling during the later bosses.

That's allright, it's subjectivity. If you find default fire being more fun, please go ahead and play it so. I don't mind. But you have to accept that you're in the minority in this case. In this forum, it is the accepted norm that rapid-fire is allowed. That's how we did it in STGT Darius Week, and how we do it in the DG hi score thread. You can ofc argue that we're missing on something, that default is more fun, that the rules should be changed, but calling it cheating at this stage is simply wrong, and saying that one should play another game if default fire is "too much" is pretty rude and ignorant.

Also, when the rules change in a video game, that usually tends to mean a new version is released.

I dont know where you're getting with this, but yes, because there arent that many settings you can change as a player. Things we can change tho, like rapid-fire, ships allowed, etc you see are indeed getting changed quite often in tournaments, or separated into different tables in hi score threads. Patches and remixes show that the developer's original rules weren't so set in stone after all, as they changed them in the re-release.

MathU · Post by **MathU** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:33 pm

It's interesting just how defensive some people get when you call them out on using auto-fire cheats. It's almost like they're afraid of their accomplishments being nullified or something. Why do they care so much about what other people think of their playing ability? Enjoy your game how you want, but know that you really are missing out on some of the depth--part of the thrill that the game was originally designed around--when you use auto-fire in Darius Gaiden, especially that insane fire rate accessed as a cheat in the Saturn port.

The funniest thing is that the game already already has a decent default fire rate in the first place. This isn't some old-school shooter like Image Fight where you have to murder your finger just to survive in some areas. You can manage the game just fine (though understanding the game mechanics well and knowing how to make the most of your firepower helps immensely) without ever even needing to mash the shot button. The only boss that actually has an absurd amount of health is Great Thing, but that fight is intended to be epic and grueling. Auto-fire like the rate found in the Extra version just makes the original game a complete and utter joke. When you destroy bosses like Storm Causer with auto-fire so they're dead before they can ever even get to the interesting attacks, you're just cheapening your own experience.

DMC · Post by **DMC** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:52 pm

MathU wrote:It's interesting just how defensive some people get when you call them out on using auto-fire cheats. It's almost like they're afraid of their accomplishments being nullified or something.

You're surprised that people defend themselves if you call them cheaters?

Why do they care so much about what other people think of their playing ability?

I have seen no autofire player telling default fire how to play the game, have you? All I see is a small minority of people saying that it is cheating to play auto-fire despite the fact that is a explicitly agreed upon rule by the vast majority.

Enjoy your game how you want, but know that you really are missing out on some of the depth

What is the depth of using default fire?

When you destroy bosses like Storm Causer with auto-fire so they're dead before they can ever even get to the interesting attacks, you're just cheapening your own experience.

Most Darius Gaiden bosses have multiple parts that you destroy if you want to have a top score. Destroying this parts typically takes some strategy and time. So rapid-fire players that play for score get to see some fancy attacks indeed.

TransatlanticFoe · Post by **TransatlanticFoe** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:21 pm

Darius 2 is great fun, although once you get a silver shield and a few power-ups you're basically unstoppable - but die towards the end of the game and you've not got a hope in hell of recovering.

I'll pick up Gaiden for the Saturn at some point, I've given it a whirl in MAME and it seems to really spike in difficulty.

Kollision · Post by **Kollision** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:02 pm

TransatlanticFoe wrote:Darius 2 is great fun, although once you get a silver shield and a few power-ups you're basically unstoppable

Are you referring to the ports? I ask this because IMO the arcade version (or Saturn/PS2) is as hard as Darius Gaiden, if not more.
Home ports, however, had their difficulty severely toned down - then I'll agree with you about the "unstoppable" bit.

Klatrymadon · Post by **Klatrymadon** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:36 pm

I love the whole series. Love it. I've probably spent more time listening to the games' soundtracks than playing them lately, though.

I used to think the early ones were really boring, but I've developed an appreciation for them over the last few years. They're definitely a bit capricious, and powering up is an utterly hateful chore when you're just getting the hang of things, but I find that they become manageable very quickly, largely owing to the fact that there's a relatively small number of enemy types and behaviours. Once you've seen the first three levels of the original game, for example, you're pretty much set to clear the rest of it (apart from learning the bosses), and its pacing starts to feel more methodical than merely slow.

Despatche · Post by **Despatche** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:54 pm

about the whole autofire bullshit; if it's really that big of a deal, convince zk to just make another board. clearly he'll get enough people to make it worth his time, right? ...haha no, he probably won't get anyone but s.sun.

Kollision wrote:Does he hadouken space fish?

no, but a certain space fish hadoukens you

TransatlanticFoe wrote:Darius 2 is great fun, although once you get a silver shield and a few power-ups you're basically unstoppable - but die towards the end of the game and you've not got a hope in hell of recovering.

this is the game in a nutshell... not so sure silver shield is what makes you "unstoppable", though. golden shield is a little better. plus, you never lose your shield when dying (not that this helps so much)

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:48 pm

Herr Schatten wrote:You forgot the option "none of them".

Drum · Post by **Drum** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:33 pm

The gameplay in Darius games is so thin that the presence or absence of autofire actually generates controversy.

winter_in_america · Post by **winter_in_america** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:09 am

Gaiden is fav because of music and graphical style

enjoy the tunes of G Darius because so bizarre.

would like to pick up darius 2 for saturn. the zoom feature seems interesting.

Zuntata rocks my socks. that is all.

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