STGT'11 planning thread

[tinotormed]

I've been thinking about Nostradamus since the game has not been given any attention yet, including a high score thread.

[KennyMan666]

Nthing V-Five. I would love to play that in STGT.

[Battletoad]

Here's voting for XOP Black Ultra for a non-MAME week because
1. it's awesome,
2. it's freeware
3. and it's hopefully finished and released by then?

Besides I hope for a good hori this time (Parodius sounds good) and preferably games that few people have played so far. Yet I wouldn't mind one game I already know. (Gunbird 2)

Mars Matrix Arrange mode for console week.

Sounds like an idea to me, but indeed not for STGT with that accessibility.
We should organize a seperate tourney for this, so that the people who own Mars Matrix finally start to fucking play this mode. And me too.

[Despatche]

preferably games that few people have played so far.

e.g. all of them because games are rarely played unless 1. they're (newer) cave or 2. they were played in stgt

[Plasmo]

Vote for:

-XOP Black Ultra
-Batsugun Special
-Gunbird 2
-Anything by NMK like P-47 Aces, Hacha Mecha Fighter and the like.
-Sonic Wings anyone?

[z0mbie90]

Vote for:

-XOP Black Ultra
-Batsugun Special
-Gunbird 2
-Anything by NMK like P-47 Aces, Hacha Mecha Fighter and the like.
-Sonic Wings anyone?

Looks pretty nice. But I don't care much for Sonic Wings.

[Obiwanshinobi]

I'd vote for the original Sonic Wings, but from what I recall it has bad responsiveness on MAME. 2&3 don't have that much lag, but 2 is already pretty popular (not sure about 3). Sonic Wings Special is dreamy.
As for caravan shmups, I'll say again: Seirei Senshi Spriggan. Its caravan modes felt VERY unique to me, even for a Compile shmup (already bonkers as is, this being Compile and all).
Konami-wise, how about Ajax?

[burgerkingdiamond]

I'd vote for the original Sonic Wings, but from what I recall it has bad responsiveness on MAME. 2&3 don't have that much lag, but 2 is already pretty popular (not sure about 3). Sonic Wings Special is dreamy.
As for caravan shmups, I'll say again: Seirei Senshi Spriggan. Its caravan modes felt VERY unique to me, even for a Compile shmup (already bonkers as is, this being Compile and all).
Konami-wise, how about Ajax?

Ajax would be cool since I just got the PCB. That damn game is kicking my ass though. After playing so many bullet hell's it's seriously difficult to play old school games. I keep trying to squeeze into these tight spots because my brain has become so accustomed to having a hitbox.

[Battletoad]

Vote for:

-XOP Black Ultra
-Batsugun Special
-Gunbird 2
-Anything by NMK like P-47 Aces, Hacha Mecha Fighter and the like.
-Sonic Wings anyone?

Absolutely, especially Sonic Wings.

[mesh control]

Playing SW after GB2 would be meh.

Vote for:

-XOP Black Ultra
-Batsugun Special
-Gunbird 2
-Anything by NMK like P-47 Aces, Hacha Mecha Fighter and the like.
-Blade Buster?

[Despatche]

Some caravan game would be cool during a break week, as a "bonus round".

[raigon50]

Some caravan game would be cool during a break week, as a "bonus round".

Indeed. I mentioned Soldier Blade Special: Caravan Stage, but I've found a problem with it. So, there is Normal Mode and Easy Mode, and both modes can be played for 2 minutes or 5 minutes. The problem is, the only difference I see between Normal and Easy is that Normal doesn't start you off with an upgraded gun. Normal is too damn easy, and Easy is even easier. Never have I thought I would be saying that about a game from the Soldier series.

[RNGmaster]

Vote for:

-XOP Black Ultra
-Batsugun Special
-Gunbird 2
-Anything by NMK like P-47 Aces, Hacha Mecha Fighter and the like.
-Sonic Wings anyone?

Vasara. That is all.

[ratikal]

Judgement Silversword. Easily playable, perfect for a tournament like this.

[z0mbie90]

Judgement Silversword. Easily playable, perfect for a tournament like this.

Isn't that on the 360?

[tinotormed]

Judgement Silversword. Easily playable, perfect for a tournament like this.

Isn't that on the 360?

It's also on the Wonderswan Wonderwitch development kit.

[z0mbie90]

Judgement Silversword. Easily playable, perfect for a tournament like this.

Isn't that on the 360?

It's also on the Wonderswan Wonderwitch development kit.

And thats not easy to find. If it isn't emulated ?

[Despatche]

It's also on the Wonderswan Wonderwitch development kit.

Unless the original version is somewhere on the internet (which I doubt), Judgement Silversword is not a "WonderWitch game". It was the winner of a WonderWitch competition and was eventually sold as a typical WonderSwan Color game (hence "Judgement Silversword Rebirth Edition"). The developer did make a follow-up of sorts ("Cardinal Sins: Judgement Silversword Recycle Edition") for use with a WonderWitch--the game is still freely available on his site--it was ported with Eschatos (along with the original).

There is an emulator of the WonderWitch, but only for original WonderSwan games. That means Cardinal Sins (a Color game) will not work using this emulator. Judgement Silversword itself, of course, is emulated (as well as WonderSwan emulation is, anyway).

[shadowbringer]

Oh god, saucykobold, yes. V-V over Batsugun Special any day of the week.

I honestly don't have any suggestions for STGT games other than "least memorization required" :p (flexible scoring systems, which wouldn't induce restarts, are fine too)

But these don't exist. Even the lack of a scoring system is still prone to "restart syndrome".

The more appropriate question isn't if such games exist or not, it is how much memorization (in the way that it trivializes the challenge, punishes people who like to freestyle and overrewards people who get to learn routes which yield a good, affordable risk/reward relation. Until then, it's trial and error for everyone else, not so much having fun with the gameplay rules) is important over other factors.

Imho Garegga (among other games) was flexible enough, if this serves as an example. Not much information to bring with you when certain parts come (save for certain spots such as the medals near the end of stage 4, placement of the suicide enemies for bombing them -- which is optional and not overrewarding --, health for certain enemies -- sceneries from stage 3). Most of the needed information comes instinctively when the time comes.

[RNGmaster]

How about Eight Forces?

[Despatche]

The more appropriate question isn't if such games exist or not, it is how much memorization is important over other factors.

No scoring system is truly "flexible" in practice, as they almost always demand nonstop memorization and execution, where the time they don't is seen as "boring".

[Hagane]

Mahou Daisakusen, Shippu Mahou Daisakusen, Space Bomber, Gunbird 2... or maybe Tengai/Sengoku Blade?

[The Coop]

Well, Team Oldschoolers one remaining slot open. Now that I've heard back from almost everyone, we've got five of seven possible members. The question is, who will we get to use the quote from "The Prisoner" on... "You are Number Six."


Edit: Here's the team...

The Coop- Captain
Herr Schatten
ED-057
tinotormed
raigon50
saucykobold


We have one last slot, but it's on hold for the moment. As soon as I hear from that someone, I'll update this post again.

[shadowbringer]

No scoring system is truly "flexible" in practice, as they almost always demand nonstop memorization and execution, where the time they don't is seen as "boring".

as they almost always demand nonstop memorization (...) where the time they don't is seen as "boring".

about execution, I agree, but memorization?

No scoring system is truly "flexible" in practice

And once again you're using the argument that basically no game can ever attain the ideal gameplay (as if there was no distinction between games, regarding the amount of memorization vs. reward), because there's a degree of flaw in them which affects the potential fun factor (while I once again retort by saying that the more appropriate question is not if there are flawless games, but how much of these flaws are on the games, compared to others). A cup which is half-full is still better than an empty one, even if this cup can't be truly "full" in practice.

Sorry for ranting, but I wouldn't want to play games where I would have to memorize enemy placement across stages (rather than memorizing important yet optional keypoints, like in the Raiden Fighters games -- I didn't bother trying to do the more difficult stuff on RFJ's stage 2 due to lack of time, for example, yet I didn't feel punished for that, since I felt that the risk vs reward was well-balanced) and doing a single mistake (misremembering stuff) snowballs into an unrecoverable (in terms of intermediate level play) loss of potential score and/or a restart, or even into an imbalance regarding dodging effort and reward.

[Despatche]

what

The burden here is not on the game, it is on the player. It doesn't matter what kind of game you're playing when the rewards are something you must always work for until the risk is as low as it can be or completely gone. No scoring system is "truly flexible in practice" because you must eventually do it all anyway.

[wiNteR]

I don't quite understand what you are trying to say. This discussion probably deserves a separate thread or possibly a split, so I will try to keep my reply short.

For the sake of clarity, assume that the game we are talking about has no randomness whatsoever. Whatever game we are talking about the 'theoretical maximum' score is already there. Unless the developers have tremendous resources at their disposal, they can also only estimate it in most cases. In any case the maximum score is already there and there is nothing mystical about it in a real sense.

What I am trying to say is that flexibility, like many other ideas, is just a qualitative concept. It can only be understood quantitatively through a metric. I am using the word metric loosely in the sense of a set of rules agreed upon through consensus. But the salient point I am trying to make is that you can of course compare different games in terms of flexibility and, most likely, one will turn up to be more flexible than the other.

If you are trying to say that for every game there are only a few safe paths close to the theoretical max, then first you need to define 'close'. But anyway, there is no necessity that a game will only allow a 'few' such paths. What I can agree with is that when you try to incorporate and more and more scoring elements into your style, indeed you will have to get more restrictive.

[emphatic]

Hacha Mecha Fighter and Ketsui, please.

[mesh control]

Should we get a pool thread started, so we can start getting teams situated?

Team Drunk so far is:
Drauch
drunkninja24
Vyxx (?)
obiwanshinobi (?)
mesh control
Das Igloo


I'll handle captain duties and make a Google Group so we can get a forum started and get invites out.

[Krimzon Kitzune]

*

[RNGmaster]

How about Eight Forces?

You're joking, right?

No. Kusoge appreciation is a proud tradition on this forum. And plus, there is a drunk unicorn character WTF more do you need?