Xbox 360: Akai Katana Shin (May 2011)

[chempop]

I can't for the life of me get the first extend on the stage 1 mid boss, the precision involved has got to be surgical huh?

Regardless, I'm starting to get a decent score in Shin. It would appear that a 1 bil score isn't out of my reach after all, going to take tons more practice though before that happends.

[BPzeBanshee]

I reckon the latter. No-one said jack shit about DFK until I opened a thread asking if anyone else found it underwhelming. Half the forum turned up for that one.

You should make a "Anyone else feeling the Akai Katana Shin meh?" thread and see who turns up for that one.

[Icarus]

This forum has only been alive since '99, it's not like everyone is in wheelchairs.

Fixed.

[Skykid]

Goddamn it!

I don't understand why I can't get the extend on the stg1 mid boss. I'm following the replays as closely as possible, but the best I've done is get the extend right before the stg1 boss. I just don't know what I'm doing wrong.

The best I've done is 3.6 mil/stg4 today. I seem to die a lot cos I'm always trying to score.

Coupla questions:

1: If I ride on the Katana's am I invincible? I seem to crash into the stg1 mid boss a lot by riding them all the way through.

2: When you fire off the Katana's for gold, is it possible to accrue ninja energy at the same time? On the replays I've seen folks seem to come through the first big spot on stage 1 with ninja energy, whereas I'm coming out with nadda.

[Icarus]

The key scoring technique in Shin Mode is to get a lot of katanas quickly, then send them crashing to a huge group of bullets (suicide and fired) and small enemies (tanks and planes) - then charge headfirst into the generated gold to collect them when they are shiny. In stage one, you should get 35-40mil for the first set of katanas, 65-85mil for the second set (on the midboss), and another 35-40mil for the last set (before the boss).

1) Nope, it's only because the katanas are plowing through everything that it seems like you're invincible. You can still crash into stuff.

2) You can still acquire orbs and ninja energy while katanas are flying around - this is a key quick recharge technique in many places, for example the big grounded planes in the early part of stage 3, and against various midbosses.

[Skykid]

The key scoring technique in Shin Mode is to get a lot of katanas quickly, then send them crashing to a huge group of bullets (suicide and fired) and small enemies (tanks and planes) - then charge headfirst into the generated gold to collect them when they are shiny. In stage one, you should get 35-40mil for the first set of katanas, 65-85mil for the second set (on the midboss), and another 35-40mil for the last set (before the boss).

1) Nope, it's only because the katanas are plowing through everything that it seems like you're invincible. You can still crash into stuff.

2) You can still acquire orbs and ninja energy while katanas are flying around - this is a key quick recharge technique in many places, for example the big grounded planes in the early part of stage 3, and against various midbosses.

Hmm, perhaps I'm not building enough Katana's... does point blanking the orb give you more, or is it just the number of enemies they blast through?

[Icarus]

Hmm, perhaps I'm not building enough Katana's... does point blanking the orb give you more, or is it just the number of enemies they blast through?

Point-blanking helps you build up more orbs and energy, but it doesn't seem to affect how many katanas are generated when you fire off the orbs.
Shin Mode in this respect should be played like Futari Black Label Original, by making everything in the game bleed orbs and energy at point-blank, to help you constantly generate katanas for scoring. Don't forget though, that only the katanas that hit their targets will generate gold, so make sure you aim properly to maximise katana use.

[moozooh]

Is it just me, or katanas start glowing red when you run out of ninja energy? Does this have an impact on score?

[Special World]

Is it just me, or katanas start glowing red when you run out of ninja energy? Does this have an impact on score?

They do glow red, but I imagine it's simply a visual way of saying "Use your fucking katanas."

[Skykid]

Frustration is starting envelop me with AK Shin, and that hasn't happened with a Cave shmup (or any shmup) for a long time.

Why is it that I'm replicating the vids as closely as possible but I can't score that 1up on the stage 1 mid boss?! No matter what I try, it feels so hit and miss.

The best I've done (and doing more frequently) is getting the extend right before the 1st stage boss - but it's annoying me that I can't emulate the videos even though I feel like I'm copying them almost exactly. Also, there's so much complexity here it's mindboggling - how the hell do the top scorers recharge the ninja bar so quickly after firing through the first set of enemies? HOW THE FUCK?! I'm usually left with a sliver and then need to pop some more enemies for energy when I should be orb collecting, or I won't have time to use the katana's on the mid-boss.

Also, how the hell do you recharge the ninja bar after killing the boss with katanas?!

I'm sure there's something fundamental I'm missing, but it's so tiny and elusive I can't see it. And it's annoying me.

[DragonInstall]

Frustration is starting envelop me with AK Shin, and that hasn't happened with a Cave shmup (or any shmup) for a long time.

Why is it that I'm replicating the vids as closely as possible but I can't score that 1up on the stage 1 mid boss?! No matter what I try, it feels so hit and miss.

The best I've done (and doing more frequently) is getting the extend right before the 1st stage boss - but it's annoying me that I can't emulate the videos even though I feel like I'm copying them almost exactly. Also, there's so much complexity here it's mindboggling - how the hell do the top scorers recharge the ninja bar so quickly after firing through the first set of enemies? HOW THE FUCK?! I'm usually left with a sliver and then need to pop some more enemies for energy when I should be orb collecting, or I won't have time to use the katana's on the mid-boss.

Also, how the hell do you recharge the ninja bar after killing the boss with katanas?!

I'm sure there's something fundamental I'm missing, but it's so tiny and elusive I can't see it. And it's annoying me.

Remember point blanking gives you more meters and when you have full ninja meter, you get orbs really fast.

Also they kill the bosses with the katanas while lasers are out. Lasers turn into whatever shot type you were using, so try to throw the katanas and shoot them with heavy shot while the lasers are out. Try to not have the katanas hit the lasers as that will cause the length of the lasers to be shorter.

Timing is key and it's important to get full ninja meter at the beginning of every stage.

As for getting the 1-up.... the most important part is to have enough orbs and to throw them correctly(hitting a target without flying out of screen.) Once you do that, you'll have a good amount of Katanas to throw. Aim them correctly at the mid-boss and be very close to it in order to get the most out of the attack.

There are a ton of variables, but the most important part is getting enough katanas by the mid boss and throwing them correctly.

I'm not trying to promote my shitty run(it is now compared to the leaderboard) but to give you a visual on what I'm saying without having to turn on your 360. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCxYihEHEGo

[Icarus]

Getting the first extend at the first boss is pretty good, to be honest. Remember, the more objects your katanas carve through, the better. And the more katanas you fire off at once, the better, as each one generates its own fountain of gold.

I think larger energy items are generated when you point-blank kill something with your option.
And the attacks you use on laser-firing enemies determines what items the lasers spew when destroyed - using Shot generates orbs, while using Laser generates energy. This applies to both regular laser-firing enemies, and all boss forms.

[Skykid]

Getting the first extend at the first boss is pretty good, to be honest. Remember, the more objects your katanas carve through, the better. And the more katanas you fire off at once, the better, as each one generates its own fountain of gold.

I think larger energy items are generated when you point-blank kill something with your option.
And the attacks you use on laser-firing enemies determines what items the lasers spew when destroyed - using Shot generates orbs, while using Laser generates energy. This applies to both regular laser-firing enemies, and all boss forms.

I figured that getting the extend at the first boss was ok, but I have this OCD thing about if it can be done on the vid, then I should be able to do it. Even getting an extend just after the mid-boss on stage 1 of Espgaluda II is something I can pull off with a little practice, but I've restarted stage 1 on AKS so many times now I'm starting to wonder how it's possible to pull it off on each go.

Also, w/regards to ninja energy, after I katana the first group I rush up on the bad guys firing as I go, riding the katanas out at the front. But even doing this the whole time, I still only get a sliver of ninja energy, whereas on the vids there's a substantial amount there once the katanas have flown off. Because of all the mayhem of that point, I have no idea where/how that ninja energy is being produced?

Also, I realise that Shin is a game of strict timing. Scoring well feels organic at first, but once you see how to really capitalise on each section you realise that it's stringent. Essentially, you need to watch replays and attempt to emulate the methods to cash in big scores - but the timing on some bits is really (really!) tight, and I die a lot trying to copy the methods.

I also keep running up on things during the katana release and crashing into stuff.

[amarti]

I ordered my copy from cave-shop through tenso.com and see what they did with my beauty box:









I complained them and I'm waiting their replay. Hope everything goes alright.
PD: I'm looking for an empty AMI box. If you have one please pm me.

[whoozwah]

I also keep running up on things during the katana release and crashing into stuff.

So do I. It's kinda funny. I do it quite frequently because that's how it's supposed to work, you stay close to the katanas for cash and prizes. However, the more I suicide because of my greed, I'm starting to think the mode should have been called Akai Harakiri Shin. (or at least, novice mode should have been called that.) XD

[Skykid]

I ordered my copy from cave-shop through tenso.com and see what they did with my beauty box

HORROR!

I also keep running up on things during the katana release and crashing into stuff.

So do I. It's kinda funny. I do it quite frequently because that's how it's supposed to work, you stay close to the katanas for cash and prizes. However, the more I suicide because of my greed, I'm starting to think the mode should have been called Akai Harakiri Shin. (or at least, novice mode should have been called that.) XD

I'm getting better at holding the middle ground, but I tend to die a lot in this game.

Icarus: Normally I'm getting about 2.6 mil by the 3rd stage boss (who usually kills me). My best is 3.6 on the stage 4 boss. How does that sound in terms of score/progression?

Also: Is Shin is much fiercer than arcade mode, cos some of these bosses are much tougher than I remember.

[Icarus]

Icarus: Normally I'm getting about 2.6 mil by the 3rd stage boss (who usually kills me). My best is 3.6 on the stage 4 boss. How does that sound in terms of score/progression?

You sure that's right? ^_-

260mil by st3 boss and 360mil on st4 boss? I'm on 850mil after st3 bonuses and 1.1bil after st4 bonuses.

[chempop]

Yeah, Skykids gotta mean hundred-million. I'm right there with you guys who are struggling pulling off max katana points. Out of countless stage 1 runs I've managed to get the extend before the boss only a couple times. Best I've done at the mid-boss was 85 mil. I've excepted the fact that I'm not going to come close to a high score, I'm happy with improving little by little and screw everyone else who makes his mode look easy to score in

I'm getting prett close to 1 billion though, which at first Inthought was out of my reach, little by little!

[Skykid]

Icarus: Normally I'm getting about 2.6 mil by the 3rd stage boss (who usually kills me). My best is 3.6 on the stage 4 boss. How does that sound in terms of score/progression?

You sure that's right? ^_-

260mil by st3 boss and 360mil on st4 boss? I'm on 850mil after st3 bonuses and 1.1bil after st4 bonuses.

Sorry yes, that's what I was getting at.

And thanks for ruining my scoring perspectives completely.

[Icarus]

Sorry yes, that's what I was getting at.
And thanks for ruining my scoring perspectives completely.

Haha, no problem.
Replay of st1 using Kochouran, for 219mil. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kh_qtm8gd4

[Skykid]

Sorry yes, that's what I was getting at.
And thanks for ruining my scoring perspectives completely.

Haha, no problem.
Replay of st1 using Kochouran, for 219mil. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kh_qtm8gd4

Wow, that was so helpful to watch!

I can instantly see my problem: I'm trying to emulate the top runs by rote, when I could be scoring a lot more by keeping an eye out for the basics (i.e. shoot down a lot of shit with the katanas). It's interesting how little angling you need to catch the big clumps - no idea why I'm trying to shoot everything diagonally all the time...

That was really awesome, cheers. I'm going to attack it with a new perspective tomorrow.

One question: when you kill the boss with the katanas, how do you get him to spew enough energy to refill the ninja gauge? I thought killing bosses with the katanas only really generated gold?

[DragonInstall]

I guess I'm on Skykids ignore list since he seems to be asking a question I answered for him.

[chempop]

LOL I've been trying to angle my katanas too, seems like skykid and I are both fools
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't killing bosses (and mid bosses) with A-shot turn their lasers into e-orbs? I'd imagine you need to be hitting them with Katanas and A-Shot while they shoot lasers to get the gold bonus too... Just a hypothesis.

[Icarus]

One question: when you kill the boss with the katanas, how do you get him to spew enough energy to refill the ninja gauge? I thought killing bosses with the katanas only really generated gold?

Both DragonInstall and I answered this question already: when anything uses a laser attack, destroying it with Shot generates orbs from the cancelled lasers, while destroying it with Laser generates energy from the cancelled lasers. This also applies to boss forms, and works while you're dealing damage to boss forms with katanas. So the process here is: while your katanas are doing damage, kill a boss form with your Laser.

[Skykid]

I guess I'm on Skykids ignore list since he seems to be asking a question I answered for him.

Dude, many apologies, I totally missed your post!

Just read through and thanks for all the helpful info, yours was one of the runs I was watching originally too. To both yourself and Icarus:

I nearly always use my laser when I'm in katana rush in an attempt to claw back some ninja energy. On stg1's first big clump with the flying red plane, I always let it fire its laser (that's my trigger to release the katanas) and then rush into it holding laser. However, despite have max katanas and following this process, I only come out with a bit of ninja energy.

That said, watching Icarus' vid, I realise he's no different, which put my mind at ease (in-fact, his katana's are about to disappear at the mid-boss). So even though I'm baffled how I watched a 3.9 bil run where the guy fills nearly his whole bar at that point, I'm still a little more comforted.

Also, thanks for outlining the boss technique - I see now why you wait until the moment all the lasers come on screen with the battleships - considering all the bosses spew lasers in their last patterns (without looking at a replay) I'm assuming that the technique is to catch all the bosses in this state to recharge energy.

I'll give it a go this afternoon, cheers guys.


(P.S. Do you guys think that using the 1st character with fixed Katana's would be easier for beginners to score with, or is it all about type 2 from the word go?)

[Icarus]

(P.S. Do you guys think that using the 1st character with fixed Katana's would be easier for beginners to score with, or is it all about type 2 from the word go?)

Indeed, using Kinsenka (type A, Tsubaki and Sumire) or Yaezakura (type C, Shion and Suzuran) would be easier on most beginners due to their ability to fix the option in place using Laser, for easier point-blanking - the main problem with Kochouran (type B, Botan and Kikkyo) is that the option is free-rotating, and cannot be locked in place, which means that you have to go to more extreme point-blanking measures to generate energy and orbs.

However, the main difficulty with scoring as Kinsenka is that all the attacks are narrow and focused, which means you have to bullet-herd efficiently in order to make the most out of scoring segments, and with Yaezakura, you have to be careful not to accidentally fan or constrict your katana attacks, otherwise you'll miss potential targets, and it can be easy to wipe the screen of katana targets accidentally, as the option has such immense range. Kochouran gives you the option of playing it like Kinsenka (firing it straight ahead), or directing it, but again, the main problem is that it can be easy to misfire.

So there are quirks with the three different ships, it just depends on which quirks you're able to deal with.

[moozooh]

Don't forget that you can get hit with an enemy laser for a hearty energy recharge, as this doesn't kill you with a single hit (and I think the HP gauge is reset at the end of a stage). I swear they've taken this idea from some old platformer or an RPG or something. :P

[Icarus]

Don't forget that you can get hit with an enemy laser for a hearty energy recharge, as this doesn't kill you with a single hit (and I think the HP gauge is reset at the end of a stage).

This is (almost) correct, but you should probably note that:
- it only works in Fighter Mode,
- it takes a tiny amount of health off your current bar each hit,
- your health doesn't reset each stage,
- you can still be killed by a laser if it completely depletes your current health bar,
- clipping a laser in Fighter Mode makes you invincible for a split second (not worth trying to exploit),
- the energy recharge is equivalent to half a standard health bar (enough for a good katana attack if done correctly).

Top-level players will exploit this in key parts to boost scoring, but it's probably not a technique worth trying for novice and intermediate players, since it can probably lead to more deaths (lol).

[charlie chong]

i'm finding arcade mode actually pretty tough ,I'm glad the old style difficulty curve has been re-instated .Loving the art altho the bullet patterns seem a little bland and mushimesama ish to me.
not much else to say till i play moar

[supergrafx77]

i'm finding arcade mode actually pretty tough ,I'm glad the old style difficulty curve has been re-instated .Loving the art altho the bullet patterns seem a little bland and mushimesama ish to me.
not much else to say till i play moar

Is there a difficulty setting 1-3, like deathsmiles. I've been playing arcade mode exclusively and am finding it rather easy and I know you are a better player at Cave games than me Charlie. I'm enjoying this quite a bit due to the fact that I can pretty much breeze through the levels, collect e's, then unleash ninja mode, and back and forth. Strange you say that this pretty tough. Unless I'm playing on an easy mode and don't know it.