Xbox 360: Mushihimesama Futari 1.5 (November 2009)

[rancor]

Thank you, kind sir.

[DrTrouserPlank]

I went back to playing this a day or so ago and it seems even more impossible than before.

I gave up on it in February after about a month of trying to 1cc normal 1.5. I'd gotten to stage 5 with about 120M but was frankly nowhere near to clearing it as stage 3 and boss is complete luck and stage 5 and its boss are well beyond ridiculous and seem like a case of needing to know it inside out and wait for that one-in-a-million fluke run where you get through it.

I love to see these people claiming they clear these games after a couple of hours. Frankly I'd like to see anyone do three 1cc's back-to-back because I think the chances of that happening are absolutely zero.

Seeing people's replays is all well and good, but if they are only clearing it once in, say, 100 attempts then it's a bit of a futile effort in trying to beat the game I think, as that just shows that there's as much luck involved as there is knowledge.

[Never_Scurred]

I went back to playing this a day or so ago and it seems even more impossible than before.

I gave up on it in February after about a month of trying to 1cc normal 1.5. I'd gotten to stage 5 with about 120M but was frankly nowhere near to clearing it as stage 3 and boss is complete luck and stage 5 and its boss are well beyond ridiculous and seem like a case of needing to know it inside out and wait for that one-in-a-million fluke run where you get through it.

I love to see these people claiming they clear these games after a couple of hours. Frankly I'd like to see anyone do three 1cc's back-to-back because I think the chances of that happening are absolutely zero.

Seeing people's replays is all well and good, but if they are only clearing it once in, say, 100 attempts then it's a bit of a futile effort in trying to beat the game I think, as that just shows that there's as much luck involved as there is knowledge.

Here, take my avatar , its yours now.

[Udderdude]

I went back to playing this a day or so ago and it seems even more impossible than before.

I gave up on it in February after about a month of trying to 1cc normal 1.5. I'd gotten to stage 5 with about 120M but was frankly nowhere near to clearing it as stage 3 and boss is complete luck and stage 5 and its boss are well beyond ridiculous and seem like a case of needing to know it inside out and wait for that one-in-a-million fluke run where you get through it.

I love to see these people claiming they clear these games after a couple of hours. Frankly I'd like to see anyone do three 1cc's back-to-back because I think the chances of that happening are absolutely zero.

Seeing people's replays is all well and good, but if they are only clearing it once in, say, 100 attempts then it's a bit of a futile effort in trying to beat the game I think, as that just shows that there's as much luck involved as there is knowledge.

The game has no elements of gameplay which are randomly generated, thus the "Luck" is just your inconsistency and refusal to memorize what's going to happen next.

Therefore, stop whining :3

[DragonInstall]

Seeing people's replays is all well and good, but if they are only clearing it once in, say, 100 attempts then it's a bit of a futile effort in trying to beat the game I think, as that just shows that there's as much luck involved as there is knowledge.

I think once you 1cc a game it gets easier and easier. Most games I've 1cc and continued playing for score.. I beat the game over 90% of the time.

[moozooh]

If I don't take additional risks and don't aim for a high score, I'd say around 1 in 3? Nothing remotely close to 1 in 100 you're talking about.

[Icarus]

I love to see these people claiming they clear these games after a couple of hours. Frankly I'd like to see anyone do three 1cc's back-to-back because I think the chances of that happening are absolutely zero.

It took me a week to clear both 1.5 Original and Black Label Original, and I've cleared 1.5 Original a ton of times on the way to my current best score of 374mil (replay on XBLA, 1.5 Arcade). Not only that, I've done two live clears in front of an audience, on the PCB version, in the Casino Arcade in London within the space of two days, one with 298mil and the other with 319mil, and this was after not playing the game for several months, working off the rust. If I played the game for pure safety, I could probably clear the game one in every two credits, since my routes are well defined for both scoring and survival.

So yeah, less QQ and more pewpew.

[hzt]

I was in basically the same place in February but I didn't give up and now I cleared it. Just sayin' yo.

All right I got so frustrated with it I started getting worse at it and had to take a break with a different game a couple of times, it took me a ridiculously long time, and I'm not sure I ever want to play it again now I've beaten it, but still.

Not only that, I've done two live clears in front of an audience, on the PCB version, in the Casino Arcade in London within the space of two days, one with 298mil and the other with 319mil, and this was after not playing the game for several months, working off the rust.

I saw Icarus do this and I also saw him eat and drink and act like a human enough to be reasonably sure he's not a Japanese built shmup playing robot.

[Sapz]

It's very possible to consistently clear any section of the game without dying or bombing. Are there any specific attacks/segments which are giving you trouble?

[DrTrouserPlank]

It's very possible to consistently clear any section of the game without dying or bombing. Are there any specific attacks/segments which are giving you trouble?

There's too many to mention really and they're hard to describe

2nd boss attack where it floods the screen with large purple balls: Sometimes these have a clear pathway through, sometimes they are undodgeable and there's no chance of weaving through them by reaction. This is more just a wasted bomb really, but it's annoying.

Most of the 3rd boss' attacks have the potential to hit you. Most have to be weaved at high speed and you have to make it up as you go along. It's unlikely you'll get through them all without getting hit.

3rd boss final form attack, waves of purple balls increasing in speed and red shots. Might doge 2 waves of purple balls but then any more you miss is luck and you are certain to get hit eventually. This is another bomb gone.

4th boss is more made up as you go along. Worst pattern is final attack, shots and cascading pink lanterns. Dodgeable for a while but your movement is somewhat limited and you get boxed into an area where the lanterns fall or the other shots will get you. Would bomb but I doubt I'd have any left after stage 4.

Stages 4 and 5 have the same problem. Get boxed on one side of screen by diagonal shots from enemies and wide-shot becomes unable to clear them so you have to (a) bomb or (b) die. happens multiple times at random spots.

5th boss. Haven't really even bothered. First attacks are way too fast and have no rhythmic movement that will dodge them. Making it up on-the-fly isn't possible. This is incidental anyway becasue I'm nowhere near to getting here. Would certainly have zero bombs left and no lives though even if I did.

Plenty of others I'm sure regarding general loss of live in levels, and random deaths on bosses from patterns that I file under "do-able, but are still luck"

[Sapz]

Here is a run I did a few months ago which demonstrates strategies for pretty much every spot you mentioned (though I bombed the 4th boss pattern, since it's very hard at high rank). I will stress again that they work consistently, as in luck does not influence the outcome whatsoever. There are really very few spots you could argue are luck based at all since all the patterns are designed in a consistent, logical manner - it's just legitimately difficult.

Even without these strategies though, making things up on the fly is quite possible, especially for stage sections where (in Original) pretty much every bullet on the screen is aimed directly at your hitbox, making it a matter of repeated streaming and cutbacks. This is especially important for the speedy bullets from the stage 5 popcorns; you'll need to cutback well if you don't want to get trapped at the side of the screen.

[DrTrouserPlank]

I made that list from memory based on what I remember being a problem at the start of the year.

I lose 3 lives getting half-way through level 3 now... I found it ridiculous when I was playing it in January, but it feels 10 times faster now. I can't even see the patterns quick enough to consider weaving let alone actually do it now.

Edit: what's the pattern to the 3rd bosses final attack then? because there's absolutely no way you are visually dodging that as it comes at you. There must be a point you line up on your bomb counter and a sequence you basically hit in rhythm.

[Chaos Phoenixma]

It sounds like you may like Abnormal Reco. A lot of your problems seem like they would be solved by her. I like the shottype and still want to 1cc with it sometime even though I've 1cc'd with Palm Abnormal and Reco Normal.

You don't even really have to dodge a lot of the boss patterns when you're using Reco Abnormal because you can generally go to a side of the screen, then use her insane speed to go around the patterns that everyone else has to dodge through.

[Erppo]

Edit: what's the pattern to the 3rd bosses final attack then? because there's absolutely no way you are visually dodging that as it comes at you. There must be a point you line up on your bomb counter and a sequence you basically hit in rhythm.

The pattern is looking where the bullets will go and moving out of the way.

[Sapz]

Edit: what's the pattern to the 3rd bosses final attack then? because there's absolutely no way you are visually dodging that as it comes at you. There must be a point you line up on your bomb counter and a sequence you basically hit in rhythm.

The pattern is looking where the bullets will go and moving out of the way.

QFT. There's no trick. Read and dodge, and bomb if you can't keep up - there's not really anything else you can do here. It's a tough attack, of course, but perfectly doable.

[DrTrouserPlank]

Edit: what's the pattern to the 3rd bosses final attack then? because there's absolutely no way you are visually dodging that as it comes at you. There must be a point you line up on your bomb counter and a sequence you basically hit in rhythm.

The pattern is looking where the bullets will go and moving out of the way.

Yeah, that's a bit difficult when there's 2 different patterns crossing each other in an irregular manner. If you are dodging a wave of purple balls that require you to predict where the gap will be when they reach the bottom of the screen, you can't also be looking at the small stray bullets that are all over the screen.

Even the purple waves get too fast eventually, even if they were on their own.

[Drake]

Holy shit I have to look at two different things in my shmups and actually dodge things??!??!!!?!?

this is too difficult i'm calling random bullshit

[Erppo]

Yeah, that's a bit difficult when there's 2 different patterns crossing each other in an irregular manner.

Yes. The game is meant to give you a challenge.

If you are dodging a wave of purple balls that require you to predict where the gap will be when they reach the bottom of the screen, you can't also be looking at the small stray bullets that are all over the screen.

Why couldn't you look at them both? They are in the same area so you don't even need to move your eyes around.

Even the purple waves get too fast eventually, even if they were on their own.

What do you mean too fast? The hitboxes are tiny so your movement speed is always enough to move out of the way.

[Sapz]

Edit: what's the pattern to the 3rd bosses final attack then? because there's absolutely no way you are visually dodging that as it comes at you. There must be a point you line up on your bomb counter and a sequence you basically hit in rhythm.

The pattern is looking where the bullets will go and moving out of the way.

Yeah, that's a bit difficult when there's 2 different patterns crossing each other in an irregular manner. If you are dodging a wave of purple balls that require you to predict where the gap will be when they reach the bottom of the screen, you can't also be looking at the small stray bullets that are all over the screen.

Even the purple waves get too fast eventually, even if they were on their own.

High scorers manage to dodge the pattern without even using the laser for upwards of half a minute while waiting for the overall counter to switch back to green. There's no way you'd luck through that much that consistently (bear in mind they have a high success rate while trying this pretty much every run that you reach that point with a blue counter).

[dan76]

Not the whole - "this game is impossible, it's down to pure luck" again. We went through this in February, and whatever helpful advice was given you wouldn't accept.

The thing about your posts is that you seem to lay your failure at the game ON the game rather than... on yourself. The game isn't impossible, the attacks can be dodged - and a clear/decent score will come with practice - (that or you will just hit a wall of your own ability ).

[JOW]

Yeah, that's a bit difficult when there's 2 different patterns crossing each other in an irregular manner.

Stages 4 and 5 have the same problem. Get boxed on one side of screen by diagonal shots from enemies and wide-shot becomes unable to clear them so you have to (a) bomb or (b) die. happens multiple times at random spots.

...at the risk of repeating what many other people have said: The Patterns are NOT Random or Irregular.

You have to understand that some shots are aimed at you while others have a fixed pattern. (and CAVE make these different shot types different colours for the hard of thinking)

So what you are interpreting as random is the behaviour of the aimed bullets that is actually determined by your behaviour.

So, on stages 4 and 5 in particular you need to take advantage of this and herd the aimed bullets - i.e. keep moving. Not in 'random' patterns but slowly from one side of the screen to the other (a 'U' shape works particularly well for Futari).

For the bosses it's a siimlar principle except you often have to dodge fixed and aimed patterns simultaneously.

Also, remember that the Stage 3 boss is well known for being tough in an otherwise fairly straight forward game. Watch a replay or two and then run up practice mode and fight those bosses repeatedly - you will improve your performance on bosses very quickly this way.

[DrTrouserPlank]

Yeah, that's a bit difficult when there's 2 different patterns crossing each other in an irregular manner.

Yes. The game is meant to give you a challenge.

If you are dodging a wave of purple balls that require you to predict where the gap will be when they reach the bottom of the screen, you can't also be looking at the small stray bullets that are all over the screen.

Why couldn't you look at them both? They are in the same area so you don't even need to move your eyes around.

Because if I spent my time looking at the ship and trying to dodge bullets that are milliseconds away from hitting me, I'd avoid nothing.

The waves of purple balls come from the top and the gaps appear so you predict where the gap will be based on how they are falling and move there preemptively. In this situation I can't be both looking at my ship and making a judgment on the purple balls which needs to be made much further up the screen with increasing regularity.

I think a lot of patterns are avoided before the bullets even reach you and you move to a position that will avoid it without even needing to look at your ship. Sometimes you might glance back at it briefly to make a minor correction, but other than loose projectiles any patterns of significant speed and complexity need to be judged at least halfway up the screen or you'll be too late to avoid it.

[moozooh]

The waves of purple balls come from the top and the gaps appear so you predict where the gap will be based on how they are falling and move there preemptively.

You can also move reactively. The pattern is fast, it's not easy, but it's manageable. I do prefer to bomb it if everything prior to that went way above average, but I usually clear it when I choose not to, either.

I think a lot of patterns are avoided before the bullets even reach you and you move to a position that will avoid it without even needing to look at your ship. Sometimes you might glance back at it briefly to make a minor correction, but other than loose projectiles any patterns of significant speed and complexity need to be judged at least halfway up the screen or you'll be too late to avoid it.

That's why you should never look at your ship when solving fast patterns. Never, period. Use your peripheral vision and the center of your shot/laser as a cue for your ship's horizontal position (vertical is mostly irrelevant), and use primary vision to read openings. You're concentrating on bullets too much, while what you should be concentrating on are openings. You want to look for something you move towards, not something you move away from. Don't mind bullets, most of them aren't going to hurt you even if you stand in the same spot. As soon as you start being afraid of bullets you lose control and die in progressively stupid ways.

If you were less obtuse about all this I would suggest watching a replay by Sapz or Icarus and look how and where exactly they move when dealing with all your problematic patterns. For some reason I'm sure they either cover a lot less screen distance when doing it, or, if otherwise, avoid the pattern completely.

[Icarus]

If you were less obtuse about all this I would suggest watching a replay by Sapz or Icarus and look how and where exactly they move when dealing with all your problematic patterns. For some reason I'm sure they either cover a lot less screen distance when doing it, or, if otherwise, avoid the pattern completely.

All with Normal Reco.

Bests from my practice runs:
Stage 1 (19.1mil) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYWhhM4mEpM
Stage 2 (56mil) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fI3L-KGWPUU
Stage 3 (61mil) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdkDVGUUp3g

From London Meet 2011 (me playing, recorded by CHI):
Stage 4 (no miss, safety route) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5D8RHfmG_M
Stage 5 (clear: 296mil) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3dO_ugaJ54
Stage 5 (clear: 319mil) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDvkK_NJy0g

[DrTrouserPlank]

Well I don't know.

Something's changed because it's much harder than it was at the start of the year. The patterns feel a lot faster, even stuff that I found simple is a real problem to avoid now. Stage 3 would probably take me about 6-8 lives now. I could do it in 1-2 consistently before.

If clearing the game basically boils down to having an instruction set of movements and timings memorised for every event in the entire game with no movement for deviation, then I can't see that ever happening; and then what if you can't play it every day? you'll forget the routine eventually and be right back at square one.

Other than a few priority targets that I know I need to eliminate asap, it feels like learning the entire game from scratch again....

[Sapz]

That's not what it boils down to at all, though. The one key thing you must keep in mind is that for the stage sections, almost all bullets are aimed at you - therefore, a simple set of back and forth arcs like so will do the trick. Even when something unexpected happens, it's perfectly reasonable (though it's usually difficult, of couse) to be expected to reaction dodge things.

[Erppo]

If clearing the game basically boils down to having an instruction set of movements and timings memorised for every event in the entire game with no movement for deviation, then I can't see that ever happening; and then what if you can't play it every day? you'll forget the routine eventually and be right back at square one.

No, it boils down to basic skill. You know how you get more of that? Play the game (or any other shooting game) more and put some thought into it. It's not the game's fault if you can't dodge the attacks.

[Skykid]

I love to see these people claiming they clear these games after a couple of hours.

I cleared Dodonpachi in about 6 goes after picking up the PCB. I also 1cc'd Futari Black Label on my first go! (That was after many weeks of playing and several clears on 1.5 though - and not playing for score.)

Honestly though, I sympathise with you a bit. It does take time to get a handle on the old danmaku's before things start to make a bit more sense. I assure you though, what looks completely random and un-dodgeable really isn't. Futari 1.5 is an intermediate difficult Cave shmup, perhaps start with Deathsmiles, Espgaluda or DDP to get a feel for the bullet patterns (a lot are basically repeated between games) and then things might not seem so pressurising or impossible.

Oh, and if Futari is punishing you, don't play for score. If you score like mad the rank gets crazy and the bullets come at you at light speed.

[cools]

Oh, and if Futari is punishing you, don't play for score. If you score like mad the rank gets crazy and the bullets come at you at light speed.

This is the reason I still haven't cleared the damn thing. I never not play for score.

[Skykid]

Oh, and if Futari is punishing you, don't play for score. If you score like mad the rank gets crazy and the bullets come at you at light speed.

This is the reason I still haven't cleared the damn thing. I never not play for score.

When I first got the board I didn't know about the rank really, so I just used to play for score like nuts in the early stages and push the rank right up. In hindsight I dunno how I finished it back then, as the bullets must have been crazy fast, and it wasn't until recently that some chaps explained rank management to me.

I know Chi was using a technique of not scoring in the first two stages and then scoring only in the remaining three as the bullets are a touch slower.

I agree though, not trying to score on everything is a very difficult ask - it's a total compulsion.