XRGB-3

BuckoA51 · Post by **BuckoA51** » Mon May 16, 2011 5:17 pm

How much did you pay for the Optoma?, if you don't mind me asking that is

SGGG2 · Post by **SGGG2** » Mon May 16, 2011 5:31 pm

$350 US. They have been going for around $400 the few times they pop up on the US eBay site, but you can find them eBay.de far more often.

edit: Even if I got the Optoma to recognize B0 at 1080p, it'll only pass through. lol, so now I need an Edge if I want to apply zooming and masking with B0 at 1080. I hope there isn't too much ringing.

Rawit · Post by **Rawit** » Thu May 19, 2011 9:03 am

I've updated my XRGB-3 with the new English firmware. It updated successfully, but now I'm not able to get USB working again. I will try it again later on.
DOT_BY_DOT seems to be "Pixel Mapping" now, it has the same effect if I'm not mistaken. The zoom option for PSP is now also labeled "PSP". VGA output in B0 mode seems to be improved, but the firmware of my TV also got updated a few days ago, which could also caused it. The waviness at some resolutions is gone now.
Still, I'm not able to get anything to display on my TV using HDMI/DVI in B0 mode unfortunately

. TV keeps saying that the signal is out of range.

Shin · Post by **Shin** » Thu May 19, 2011 1:05 pm

So I got my xrgb-3 back from the dead the other day (got a new power supply adapter a 220V(living in europe) one with a set a "jumper resistors" to adjust the voltage output)

quick question, I came by the "lowres" option, how does that work ? what kind of components would I need to adapt that (240p vga out (?)) to a jamma candy cab ?

Rock Man · Post by **Rock Man** » Thu May 19, 2011 4:06 pm

Quote by Akumajo from the Flame Meister thread.

akumajo wrote:3) finally, xrgb-3 special firmware (2.21aj) will not be released in english for while (maybe never but I will still ask for it)

thats all

So there's another firmware update after this English one only this time it's in Japanese? I would be interested in what the other firmware does, especially if it provides additional filters in order to make things look smoother.

The DOT_by_DOT function is pretty decent but it's not enough.

Artemio · Post by **Artemio** » Thu May 19, 2011 4:16 pm

Shin wrote:quick question, I came by the "lowres" option, how does that work ? what kind of components would I need to adapt that (240p vga out (?)) to a jamma candy cab ?

If you have a JAMMA candy cab, you can just use a fingerboard to route the video signals (or all, even inputs and audio) to the cabinet directly, without using the XRGB-3. It all depends on what you want to connect since most game consoles need amplification in order to reach JAMMA signal levels (just the opposite of using a higher resistance when connecting arcade PCBs to the XRGB-3). The best option I've found is the RGB SCART to JAMMA Adapter by Tim Worthington: http://etim.net.au/scart2arcV20/scart2arc2.htm

If you go with the fingerboard route, remember that the power supply might need a load.

Capoz · Post by **Capoz** » Thu May 19, 2011 4:28 pm

Hi all my new xrgb3 it's arrived

firmware 2.31 but in B1 mode no scanlines

what can I do?

edit: B1 now always black screen

Shin · Post by **Shin** » Thu May 19, 2011 6:15 pm

Artemio wrote:If you have a JAMMA candy cab, you can just use a fingerboard to route the video signals (or all, even inputs and audio) to the cabinet directly, without using the XRGB-3. It all depends on what you want to connect since most game consoles need amplification in order to reach JAMMA signal levels (just the opposite of using a higher resistance when connecting arcade PCBs to the XRGB-3). The best option I've found is the RGB SCART to JAMMA Adapter by Tim Worthington: http://etim.net.au/scart2arcV20/scart2arc2.htm

If you go with the fingerboard route, remember that the power supply might need a load.

true, makes sense. I was thinking for example 360VGA to Xrgb3, but yeah, makes more sense to use a scart to jamma directly... (for some reason I just though having the xrgb3 (good device to filter the signal) in the setup somewhere and outputting VGA wold be cleaner than a scart to jamma)

yeah my sources will prolly be 480i or 480p or more, not 240p so there has to be something precessing the signal (I thought why not my xrgb3 since it supports lowres, spending 30-50€ on something my xrgb3 could prolly do seemed pointless) before the fingerboard.

Konsolkongen · Post by **Konsolkongen** » Thu May 19, 2011 7:03 pm

Rock Man wrote:Quote by Akumajo from the Flame Meister thread.

akumajo wrote:3) finally, xrgb-3 special firmware (2.21aj) will not be released in english for while (maybe never but I will still ask for it)

thats all
So there's another firmware update after this English one only this time it's in Japanese? I would be interested in what the other firmware does, especially if it provides additional filters in order to make things look smoother.

The DOT_by_DOT function is pretty decent but it's not enough.

As mentioned earlier that is the old screencapture firmware (2.31 is a higher number than 2.21, therefore newer

). It was only available to Japan, and it works much better than the new one in English

EDIT: Please look here for a brief explanation on how to use the old 2.21a firmware to capture perfect screens:
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... start=2437

I have captured a few hundred Saturn screenshots already

Rawit · Post by **Rawit** » Thu May 19, 2011 7:14 pm

When connecting a PSP the ADC level is longer fixed to 230.

Rock Man · Post by **Rock Man** » Thu May 19, 2011 7:22 pm

Konsolkongen wrote:
Rock Man wrote:Quote by Akumajo from the Flame Meister thread.

akumajo wrote:3) finally, xrgb-3 special firmware (2.21aj) will not be released in english for while (maybe never but I will still ask for it)

thats all
So there's another firmware update after this English one only this time it's in Japanese? I would be interested in what the other firmware does, especially if it provides additional filters in order to make things look smoother.

The DOT_by_DOT function is pretty decent but it's not enough.
As mentioned earlier that is the old screencapture firmware (2.31 is a higher number than 2.21, therefore newer ). It was only available to Japan, and it works much better than the new one in English

EDIT: Please look here for a brief explanation on how to use the old 2.21a firmware to capture perfect screens:
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... start=2437

I have captured a few hundred Saturn screenshots already

Sorry bout that, must've misread the numbers.

I shall reference this guide should I need any screenshots for my Saturn.

Artemio · Post by **Artemio** » Thu May 19, 2011 7:26 pm

Shin wrote: yeah my sources will prolly be 480i or 480p or more, not 240p so there has to be something precessing the signal (I thought why not my xrgb3 since it supports lowres, spending 30-50€ on something my xrgb3 could prolly do seemed pointless) before the fingerboard.

Then you need to read this: http://scanlines.hazard-city.de/

Shin · Post by **Shin** » Thu May 19, 2011 7:46 pm

hehe, yeah, I did, a few times, but that was some time ago, guess I should check it out again ^^

BuckoA51 · Post by **BuckoA51** » Sun May 22, 2011 10:26 am

Hi all my new xrgb3 it's arrived

firmware 2.31 but in B1 mode no scanlines

what can I do?

edit: B1 now always black screen

Start by telling us what console you have attached and what other equipment (TV, secondary processor etc) you are using.

Capoz · Post by **Capoz** » Sun May 22, 2011 7:08 pm

BuckoA51 wrote:
Hi all my new xrgb3 it's arrived

firmware 2.31 but in B1 mode no scanlines

what can I do?

edit: B1 now always black screen
Start by telling us what console you have attached and what other equipment (TV, secondary processor etc) you are using.

I've opened a new thread for this

thank you

SGGG2 · Post by **SGGG2** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:09 pm

Ran B1 through the Optoma HD3000, the shakiness is virtually all gone. The resulting picture is rock solid. The scaling is sharper than my ASUS "Evo" monitor, but no where near as sharp as my Westinghouse!

I have a feeling the Westy's scaling is unusually sharp...

bryan_c · Post by **bryan_c** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:27 am

Count me among XRGB-3 owners now - mine arrived not too long ago, and I'm thoroughly impressed.

Thanks for the help regarding TV compatibility earlier in the thread.

A few questions...

In B1 mode, I noticed that scanlines with 480i content alternate with alternating fields. This looks surprisingly good (rather CRT-like, I think) with actual 480i content, but less than ideal for "fake high-res" games that should be 240p but aren't. I also noticed that scanlines don't seem to work with 480p content; not that I want scanlines for actual 480p content, but having them for content that's already been line-doubled by a console (like the Wii's VC) would be nice. Is there a way to get scanlines to work with 480p, and stationary scanlines with 480i, short of getting an external scanline generator? Some setting I'm missing perhaps?

Is it normal for colours to be sometimes messed up when switching to a composite or s-video input? Power cycling the XRGB almost always fixes it (once it took me two power cycles), but it's still a bit annoying. As an example of how much the colours get distorted, I can fairly consistently get blue grass on Dragon Warrior prior to power cycling - it's like Dragon Warrior/Quest on Namek, with fewer Namekians and more slimes.

Also, is it normal for a Wii connected via component to be overpoweringly bright when it's set to output 480p? 480i looks fine, brightness wise. I've lowered the XRGB's brightness setting to avoid mostly-white screens (like the Wii main menu) from looking washed out, but it still doesn't seem quite right... is there another setting that might be more appropriate?

One last question... when my PS2 is hooked up via component to the XRGB-3 (to D in 1, as per the wiki), there's a bit of faint rolling discolouration. Almost like hissing; I'm not sure exactly how to describe it. I don't notice it much while actually playing, but it stands out in menus and other mostly-static screens. Is this the extreme sensibility to noise I've read about, and would it be reduced with an RGB cable?

Thanks again!

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:29 am

Is there a way to get scanlines to work with 480p, and stationary scanlines with 480i, short of getting an external scanline generator?

no, the XRGB aims at simulating a CRT, which means 240p scanlines on 240p material, faint 480i scanlines on 480i material and no scanlines on 480p material. Get a SLG3000 if you want 240p scanlines on all material.

One last question... when my PS2 is hooked up via component to the XRGB-3 (to D in 1, as per the wiki), there's a bit of faint rolling discolouration.

you can try another Component input first. Using a RGB cable with capacitors should fix this.

Konsolkongen · Post by **Konsolkongen** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:39 am

So if I add 220uF caps between my component cable and the XRGB-3 this should help the problem? It will make the picture darker, yes?

SGGG2 · Post by **SGGG2** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:03 pm

Got a Gefen VGA to DVI Scaler (non plus), and I love how it scales up B1 from the XRGB!

I prefer it over the overly sharp scaling of my Westinghouse or the blurrier scaling of the Optoma. It doesn't fix the shaky vertical sync on my set up, though.

Konsolkongen · Post by **Konsolkongen** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:24 pm

Does the non-plus see the XRGB's resolution as 720x480?

SGGG2 · Post by **SGGG2** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:55 pm

I'll check tonight. The non-plus lacks aspect control, it only does widescreen @ 1080p, so it's not ideal either way. I just set it to some x768 resolution at let my TV do the rest. Other than border size I can't tell the difference. Tested with NiGHTS and Panzer Zwei set to widescreen.

Konsolkongen · Post by **Konsolkongen** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:49 pm

Shame it doesn't have aspect control. But if your TV allows proper resize to 4:3 without cutting the edges (mine does that) that should do fine. Have you experienced any problems with stuttering and/or tearing using this thing?
If you don't know what I'm talking about please see this site which explains it:
http://videogameperfection.com/gefen-faq.php
Em0ti0n and I have both experienced these problems using the Gefen Plus to upscale the XRGB-3's B1 mode. I asked on the Gefen support forum but they kept blaming the XRGB-3. Which might be part true because this has never happened upscaling the Dreamcast. It's just funny how this problem seems to disappear when I change the aspect ratio on the Gefen to underscan.
Your Gefen does not have aspect controls so it might not suffer from these problems at all

Because of RGBHV issues with the EDGE I'm currently using the XRGB-3 like this:
XRGB-3 B1 > Gefen set to underscan and 1080p60 out > EDGE with aspect set to 4:3 (mostly) and zoomed in a bit to compensate for the underscan the Gefen does. This looks great, but it's a bit much I think :/ Hoping the Frame Meister can replace both the Gefen and EDGE in my combo

About the EDGE's RGBHV problems if anyone is interested:
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... &start=150

Also be careful with NiGHTS Into Dreams, it will blow your freaking mind away!

SGGG2 · Post by **SGGG2** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:53 pm

It sees the XRGB as 640x480. I didn't notice any tearing, but it looses sync constantly with the Genesis in Master System mode via Everdrive. Whenever the XRGB looses sync the screen is blue, and my TV looses sync with the Gefen the same way when it's set to 1080p...

I'm running it through the Optoma at some x1084 resolution. I figure it's faster than my set, and I get to zoom in and fine tune the picture. I take back what I posted earlier; the scaling is *not* sharper than the Optoma, but I easily prefer it for upscaling B1. The result is ideal IMO.

BuckoA51 · Post by **BuckoA51** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:18 pm

Most scalers seem to choke on Genesis with SMS converter->XRGB3. Using pure sync helps but doesn't seem to cure the problem entirely.

Konsolkongen · Post by **Konsolkongen** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:46 am

SGGG2 wrote: I'm running it through the Optoma at some x1084 resolution. I figure it's faster than my set, and I get to zoom in and fine tune the picture. I take back what I posted earlier; the scaling is *not* sharper than the Optoma, but I easily prefer it for upscaling B1. The result is ideal IMO.

Adding the Optoma will increase lag not minimize it. But if you don't feel it, don't worry about it

Chacranajxy · Post by **Chacranajxy** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:31 pm

So here's the deal: I have a buncha systems that output 480i or p rather than 240p... and when I use them with the XRGB-3, the results aren't great. 240p material looks soooooooo much better on the thing. And I get a lot of noise with the PS2. Is there another device (presumably something Micomsoft makes) that I could use in conjunction with the XRGB-3 to get these 480 sources to look mint?

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:00 pm

480p should be fine through the XRGB-3. You have to make sure to turn the LPF off when using 480p signals. You can get rid of the noise in the the PS2's signal by using a *goog* Scart cable instead of the component or D-Terminal cable.

480i looks rubbish when using B0, but it's actual quite ok when using B1. You simply get what I would look like on a CRT. If you want real 480i deinterlacing you need a proper home cinema processor. Doesn't have to be anything expensive. Something like a iScan Pro (less than $100) does already a much better job on 480i material than the XRGB.

BuckoA51 · Post by **BuckoA51** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:13 am

I have my DVDO Edge set up with all my sources running through a 2 way SCART matrix. One output goes to the XRGB3 the other to the DVDO. That way I can have the XRGB3 process 240p stuff or use the DVDO Edge's processing for any 480i/p material.

Chacranajxy · Post by **Chacranajxy** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:24 am

Fudoh wrote:480p should be fine through the XRGB-3. You have to make sure to turn the LPF off when using 480p signals. You can get rid of the noise in the the PS2's signal by using a *goog* Scart cable instead of the component or D-Terminal cable.

480i looks rubbish when using B0, but it's actual quite ok when using B1. You simply get what I would look like on a CRT. If you want real 480i deinterlacing you need a proper home cinema processor. Doesn't have to be anything expensive. Something like a iScan Pro (less than $100) does already a much better job on 480i material than the XRGB.

Wouldn't a separate deinterlacer introduce lag into the equation?

And I did have my PS2 connected via scart for a while and I turned the LPF off... yet, it still looked worse than if I just plugged component cables directly into my TV. Hella noise. I dunno, maybe my settings were fucked and I didn't realize it

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