Jackal & Hound, inc.

[Y2135]

Okay, summer 2012 update.
Shining Armour is DEAD. But what we have here?



Working title: Jackal & Hound, inc.
Genre: HORIZONTAL MANIC SHMUP. This means lots of fast & targeted projectiles. No bullet hell candy at all.
Inspiration titles: Forgotten Worlds, Neo Contra, Contra: Hard Core, Shock Troopers, Gradius V, Air Gallet, Captain Savior 1&2, Dual Survival, John Rambo.
About the mess: Super-duper corporation producing war cyborgs and weapons decided to wipe out all Earth except their own property - trans-planetary skyscraper. You are the inseparable couple of special force mercenaries "Jackal & Hound, inc." that accomplished countless missions together (homosexual theme, must have in 201X projects) and once again have to risk their lives for the sake of humanity. You have your heavy machine-guns, unguided missiles and super flying chairs to complete the task.

1st PLAYER
Name: Jackal.
Nationality: Japanese.
Age: 26.
Favorite joke: "What do you do if you see a one-legged alien? Laugh and reload".

2nd PLAYER
Name: Hound.
Nationality: Navajo.
Age: 28.
Favourite joke: "Ladies, indians ride bareback".

It's possible to build an alpha version with test stage and some enemies here and there, but I think that videos and pics are ok for now. Of course, I'll upload build if you'll request =)

Now working on: new enemies and interactive environment.

[mjclark]

Really enjoying this and the graphics are fantastic- looks and plays rather like a Naomi/Dreamcast shooter and that's got to be a good thing.
1) The main shot feels a bit underpowered for so much bullet manicness
2) The ships move a little too slowly so it feels like wading through treacle
3) The self-extractor chose to extract to C:Program Files/Firefox by default which is a bit weird
4) Joypad support please!
5) Like the multiplier mechanic
6) Less onscreen narrative cos it just gets in the way of the action
7) Would like it to fill the whole 4:3 screen lika a vertizontal (Mars Matrix, Gigawing, Fast Striker etc)
8) That first boss is really cool
9) Some other powerups apart from score multipliers would be nice
10) More of this please cos it feels like a quality production

Anyways, impressed by the demo so keep 'em comin' :D

[Y2135]

Thank you very much for such a detailed respond. I'll try to comment it:

- The main shot feels a bit underpowered for so much bullet manicness.
I wanted player to use main shot only for light enemy crafts to create dilemma KILL_THEM_ALL/DODGE_BULLETS. Also main shot goes right through the enemies dealing more damage (is this noticable or must be done more obvious?). And I have a question in turn: Is it fun/playable to bash SHIFT MODE during FIRE key down to produce swinging of the satellites or it's more like unnecessary difficulty?

- The ships move a little too slowly so it feels like wading through treacle
It can be fixed, but will result in much less time of enemies' presence on the screen.

- The self-extractor chose to extract to C:Program Files/Firefox by default which is a bit weird
That's strange=) May be it tries to extract into the same directory where it is )

- Joypad support please!
Promise (next update)!

- Like the multiplier mechanic
Thank you. It is done so that destroying big enemy spawns a medal for player.

- Less onscreen narrative cos it just gets in the way of the action
I was afraid of that! =)) May be just remove solid background for the text?

- Would like it to fill the whole 4:3 screen lika a vertizontal (Mars Matrix, Gigawing, Fast Striker etc)
You know what, square gamescreen had to be a feature! But, after all may be it's betwixt and between really...

- That first boss is really cool
Still don't know what to do with the unexpectedness of the beam attacks =(

- Some other powerups apart from score multipliers would be nice
When I started making this game, there were four different weapons (standart bullets, slow but powerful curtain-missiles, very powerful but very shot-ranged flamethrower and flying-through-everything wave-patterned slugs gravitating around the vertical axis) and every weapon had four levels of upgrade (by spread range and number of particles), there were no satellites completely. But lurking here and there about shmup mechanics I saw people complaining on power up systems as such and about them disbalancing the gameplay. So, all weapons were cut out.
Indeed, I'm in doubts about whole weapons system so far...

- More of this please cos it feels like a quality production
That's what I'm longing for )

[mjclark]

-

Less onscreen narrative cos it just gets in the way of the action
I was afraid of that! =)) May be just remove solid background for the text?

Yeah- and maybe less text altogether- this is about shooting not reading!

-

Would like it to fill the whole 4:3 screen lika a vertizontal (Mars Matrix, Gigawing, Fast Striker etc)
You know what, square gamescreen had to be a feature! But, after all may be it's betwixt and between really...

What are you using to make this then? Would it at least be possible to fill the black borders with information or some wallpaper/ maybe that's where the text could go.

-

That first boss is really cool
Still don't know what to do with the unexpectedness of the beam attacks =(

Those beam attacks are great and remind me of a Dreamcast shooter.

-

Some other powerups apart from score multipliers would be nice
When I started making this game, there were four different weapons (standart bullets, slow but powerful curtain-missiles, very powerful but very shot-ranged flamethrower and flying-through-everything wave-patterned slugs gravitating around the vertical axis) and every weapon had four levels of upgrade (by spread range and number of particles), there were no satellites completely. But lurking here and there about shmup mechanics I saw people complaining on power up systems as such and about them disbalancing the gameplay. So, all weapons were cut out.
Indeed, I'm in doubts about whole weapons system so far...

Nah- lack of powerups makes this a bit flat and it would definitely make this much more exciting if you could powerup the main weapon and change the weapons. if it's done properly it will greatly enhance the game
Also the idea of swinging the satellites is cool and novel, giving this something really new but it definitely needs to go hand in hand with a more powerful main shot.

Anyway, really looking forward to the next update.
Do you have Twitter or a website to follow developements on, or is this the best way to stay in touch?

[Y2135]

First of all, I uploaded the video with early build of the game when all weapons were in place:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UL4rB_1_JAc - Just to show what I was talking about.

Yeah- and maybe less text altogether- this is about shooting not reading!

Naked truth!

What are you using to make this then? Would it at least be possible to fill the black borders with information or some wallpaper/ maybe that's where the text could go.

I desided to widen the game screen, after all. More room for the future co-op, and more widescale action =)

Those beam attacks are great and remind me of a Dreamcast shooter.

I ment that in many games developers give a warning about appearence of such beams.

Nah- lack of powerups makes this a bit flat and it would definitely make this much more exciting if you could powerup the main weapon and change the weapons. if it's done properly it will greatly enhance the game
Also the idea of swinging the satellites is cool and novel, giving this something really new but it definitely needs to go hand in hand with a more powerful main shot.

Ah, the balance is such a pain =)

Do you have Twitter or a website to follow developements on, or is this the best way to stay in touch?

I will make a blog account for the project and announce the link here or in my profile.

[mjclark]

I will make a blog account for the project and announce the link here or in my profile.

Great- bookmarking your blog now

[Krimzon Kitzune]

While I haven't played the game yet, the trailer looks promising. I might have to keep on eye on this one. I'll probably grab the demo later on and tell you what I think of it.

[lilmanjs]

this really reminds me of the psyvariar series from the trailer. I shall have to check the demo out!

[Y2135]

this really reminds me of the psyvariar series from the trailer. I shall have to check the demo out!

Yeah, psyvariar touched me =) But no parallels in global aspects please =))) Psyvariar is too cool to be compared with =)

[Y2135]

While working on improvements goes pretty smooth, there is one crucial update I want to announce individually here and may be (if you'll like) to discuss it.
Testing and optimization lead me to idea that 4:3 screen proportions are wrong for the game I'm making. Because all action takes place in the air and there will be no ground enemies and/or structures to destroy, and all enemies' movements are pretty fast -player has no motivation to voyage so wide around. 4:3 is an appanage of the shmups, where you have to destroy buildings slowly passing by and etc.
There is possibility to leave open areas, but I think that it will weaken the tone and make player fly around bullet patterns rather than navigate through them.

In conclusion... are there any wide-fielded scroll-shooters with lack of terrain action? There are ones with vertical-oriented proportions and ground gameplay, but vise-versa.. I don't know for sure.Ikaruga, Psyvariar and others only prove this concept, or am I wrong?

So what's your opinion about all this mess? =)

[BPzeBanshee]

There are wide-field scrolling shooters with a lack of terrain action, but I wouldn't call them great examples of shmups. Tyrian is one such notion, it has a mixture of ground-based stages and within-space stages.

Also, Hellsinker has horizontal wobble scrolling while being in the air all the time AND while having an aspect ratio of being more tall than wide when it comes to its game screen. That is a more successful game than Tyrian though it has its issues, none of which are related to the game screen.

In your case you may be better off changing the aspect to be more correct instead of what I understand you to have now, but take my view with a grain of salt because I haven't gotten around to even trying your game yet. Depending on how the game is made to take advantage of the existing game screen you may not even need to change it.

[mjclark]

Well this is your game and if you really feel 4:3 is wrong for it then at least don't just leave black borders (like in the first demo). And I take your point, if it's only concentrated aerial firing then maybe a narrower screen will make the pace seem faster (like Cho Ren Sha).
Those borders could be used for detailed scoring information, player status, commentary etc (Crimzon Clover does this extremely well I think).
This is looking really exciting but please please no black borders

[Y2135]

Hellsinker has horizontal wobble scrolling while being in the air all the time AND while having an aspect ratio of being more tall than wide when it comes to its game screen.

Yeah, this technique combines both intense air combat and ground clean-up, but it's too complicated for me now))

Those borders could be used for detailed scoring information, player status, commentary etc (Crimzon Clover does this extremely well I think). This is looking really exciting but please please no black borders

Think this is the most fitting solution, in addition I wanted to add some story so freed screen space is really in hand =)

[mjclark]

Matthew Doucette of Xona Games said about Score Rush: "The dual-stick firing was born out of necessity from the wide screen that made full coverage very hard with a slow moving fighter, and the slow fighter was required to navigate the bullet hell!", so the same problem you're talking about with 4:3 screen proportions was dealt with in Score Rush by having 360deg firing capability of ship (like in arena shooters)!

[Y2135]

In some reason japanese (as a pioneers and leaders of the genre) don't give up fixed direction firing (Death Smiles allows for turning around but it is not the same as round o'clock)...
probably score-rush manic shmups are destined for tate =) or they will become "Crimson Land"s (no offense to latter) because technical (and visual) realization comes from gameplay idea, not vice-versa. To widen game field for the sake of wide screen is strange. In my opinion, the best solution is to give ability to turn screen layout 90 degrees clockwise - game will become horizontal scroller BUT it fills like some kind of consensus =)

[mjclark]

Actually yeah- a tate option for Shining Armour would be totally excellent

[Y2135]

New tech video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8_TPtY4Jag

[mjclark]

New tech video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8_TPtY4Jag

Very nice! Is the Karma Reactor like the Concept Reactor in Refrain Prism Memories?
Also pleased to see from blog that tate option will be available

[Y2135]

um, as like as filling the bar makes BOOM =)

to start chain reaction (total explosion) bar has to reach it's maximum. after that goes uncontrollable discharge, so you have to plan when to max the scale. karma scale fills when enemy bullets buzz through the area close to player (like buzzing level-ups in psyvariar). i want to accent that karma reactor is the benefit for navigating through hard bullet curtains in the first place - no need to charge it if you like it this way.

[RNGmaster]

Not enough constructive criticism so far (and it seems mjclark is genetically incapable of saying anything negative about any indie shmup). We need Udderdude in here pronto.

[mjclark]

Not enough constructive criticism so far (and it seems mjclark is genetically incapable of saying anything negative about any indie shmup). We need Udderdude in here pronto.

Maybe it would be more helpful if you supplied some constructive criticism about this game, but if you really can't manage that then two points spring to mind in response:
1) I'm sure Udderdude can decide for himself if he wishes to comment on this project without you having to enter into a civil partnership with him first
and
2) I promise you that if you were to develop an indie shmup I'd be pleased to tell you that it was shit lol

In the meantime I'll stick to talking about (and encouraging) games I like the look of and this is definitely one of them

[RNGmaster]

Well, for a game that trumpets itself as "fast and frantic", the bullets sure are slow. Not much challenge in tap-dodging those. Also, more devs should do scoring systems that don't involve chaining.

[BPzeBanshee]

Well, for a game that trumpets itself as "fast and frantic", the bullets sure are slow. Not much challenge in tap-dodging those. Also, more devs should do scoring systems that don't involve chaining.

not impressed :/

Do better.

There's constructive criticism, and then there's unhelpful trolling and bashing. Learn the difference, or at least provide some kind of working alternative that would please your anti-chaining taste.

[Y2135]

Hey men don't squabble yet =) I'm sure everyone has his own point and it's really helps me to work more objectively, so please let your discussion here be not irritating, but fun =)

Well, for a game that trumpets itself as "fast and frantic", the bullets sure are slow. Not much challenge in tap-dodging those. Also, more devs should do scoring systems that don't involve chaining.

Yes, bullet speed will be faster, but within the bounds. I don't want to make the game playable only by maniacs =)
Does my game have chaining system?

[worstplayer]

Perhaps the lack of replies is because Letitbit is so hard to figure out. Put it on Mediafire maybe?

Anyway, so far I kind of like the the game, except few things:
-As already mentioned, main weapon feels extremely underpowered and HUD elements (dialog boxes to be more precise) obscure the action.
-Steering bullets everywhere. I fucking hate steering bullets.

[Y2135]

Perhaps the lack of replies is because Letitbit is so hard to figure out. Put it on Mediafire maybe?

Mediafire? ok. Next demo will be there.

Anyway, so far I kind of like the the game, except few things:
-As already mentioned, main weapon feels extremely underpowered and HUD elements (dialog boxes to be more precise) obscure the action.
-Steering bullets everywhere. I fucking hate steering bullets.

The first is changed, the second will be, but not totally - or the player will feel himself unnecessary imho.

------------
June 11, 2011 UPDATE:
Now, making things a bit clearer, about terms.
First demo was v0.02b and published on June 01, 2011.
I'm planning the next one (v0.03b) on June 17. It will be the light version with renewed mechanics, gamepad support, etc. Definetly, enough things for you to check out.
Until that day, I will not make any videos, may be screenshots. And of course any discussions/answering questions will be awesome.
I'm here regularly.
Here is the pole if you don't mind =)

[BPzeBanshee]

Looking forward to the gamepad support.

You may have done this already, but with the support, unless you do separate movement actions like twinstick shooters and stuff make use of the POV hat directions for movement as well. I've spotted some games (and indeed the initial build Nimitz sent of my project with joystick support) had only the analog stick directions for movement and not the POVs, which is not good for people who want to use the D-Pad as opposed to their analog sticks on say, Xbox controllers.

[Y2135]

Thank you!
Yes it's implemented now, but POV movement has to be powered with drivers for the actual controller from official manufacturer, so it won't work with standard windows drivers.

wiki says: "computer gamepads modelled after PlayStation DualShock controllers assign POV switch scancodes to the D-pad of it.".
So actual POV head scans are necessary only for joys with separated POV/D-PAD controls. In these cases full driver support needed or it won't work. May be there are workarounds, but game has to be bestseller to pay off the whole mess =)

[BPzeBanshee]

This is true. I was mainly asking for it due to gamepads such as the Xbox 360 Controller I use (which I tested for my game project) and also the PS3 controllers, but gamepads in general will have something like X-Axis + etc for its analog sticks and POV_HAT for the D-Pad. As you say, not every controller does it like this. I can't say for how people get their controllers working with other games to begin with, so long as the functions to accept POV for input within the game are there it should work with *most* joysticks and gamepads.

In my experience, for my Xbox 360 Controller I use XBCD a third-party custom driver for it. For PS3 controllers people would have their own custom drivers as well, though when I previously tried setting up such with my cousin's Sixaxis PS3 controller it didn't work so well.

[Y2135]

June 17, 2011 UPDATE:
Technical demo is available right now. You can download it through THIS link. Check out README.TXT in game folder or at the first post in this thread.

Please pay attention to "MESSAGE FOR PLAYERS" part of the readme before feedbacking. Also, I will HEAVENLY APPRECIATE including the score you gained.
I hope you'll enjoy this demo.