Why modern anime sucks nowadays?

[Obiwanshinobi]

Perfect Blue, while not very fullfilling, wasn't bad in terms of pure filmmaking. Satoshi Kon works, however, lack compassion and attatchment to the world of living necessary to breath life into stories he tries to tell. Perhaps he'd have been better off making unblushingly infantile giallo slashers rather than "psychological" cinema.
I've been reading the manga Soil by Atsushi Kaneko lately and, being also a "gothic" detective story, it has everything Paranoia Agent lacks to make me happy.

[Siren2011]

Perfect Blue, while not very fullfilling, wasn't bad in terms of pure filmmaking. Satoshi Kon works, however, lack compassion and attatchment to the world of living necessary to breath life into stories he tries to tell.

I'm starting to worry about you. A show cannot feel emotions, and it cannot feel compassion toward any one person, and certainly not a "world" (not even humans can feel compassionate about the world, only a living creature in it). That's like saying "a tree has an underbite." It's nonsensical.

Here's some Orwell for you:

In certain kinds of writing, particularly in art criticism and literary criticism, it is normal to come across long passages which are almost completely lacking in meaning. Words like romantic, plastic, values, human, dead, sentimental, natural, vitality, as used in art criticism, are strictly meaningless, in the sense that they not only do not point to any discoverable object, but are hardly ever expected to do so by the reader. When one critic writes, "The outstanding feature of Mr. X's work is its living quality", while another writes, "The immediately striking thing about Mr. X's work is its peculiar deadness", the reader accepts this as a simple difference opinion. If words like black and white were involved, instead of the jargon words dead and living, he would see at once that language was being used in an improper way.

[chempop]

Just skimmed this topic and mostly agree that it's hard to find a decent series these days. I started watching anime when I was about 5, my babysitter brought over tapes of Robotech and to this day I still hum the theme song in my head when doing awesome shit. I was into Ranma, Lum, Bubblegum Crisis, you name it, those there the golden years. I was definitely on the young side for watching shows like Vampire Hunter D, Akira, etc, but those are the perks of having an older sibling.

I stopped watching a whole lot in the 90's missed out on the whole Eva bandwagon, but in 2000 I got back I to it full fledged. Good timing too because a lot was being published in the US and the owner of a small rental store opened had excellent taste. I got turned onto Berserk and I was back in the swing of things. Some of my top picks since then include:

Gungrave
Texhnolyze
GitS:SaC
MushiShi
Gankutsuou
Baccano
Ergo Proxy
Shigurui
Kinos Journey
Last Exile
Otogi Zoshi
Black Lagoon
Wolfs Rain
Monster
Boogiepop Phantom
Paranoia Agent
Paprika (film)
Tekkonkinkreet (film)

...as you can see, I dont think any of those were made in te last 5 years or so. I've tried a number of series since that era of above titles and almost nothing compares. I need a good mecha show like the olden days, I need something that doesn't in any way imaginable look like Code Gease.

Glad a least one person mention this show, it's badass

[Obiwanshinobi]

I need a good mecha show like the olden days, I need something that doesn't in any way imaginable look like Code Gease.

Eureka Seven (TV series) and Scrapped Princess.

[Barrakketh]

I need a good mecha show like the olden days, I need something that doesn't in any way imaginable look like Code Gease.

Geass.

Which I enjoyed, though it wasn't a mecha series per se so much as it merely happened to have giant robots in it. I've also never watched Death Note (which I mention since Lelouch's scheming and magnificent bastardry often gets compared to that series) and have an aversion to Clamp noodle-people but still found it entertaining.

I need a good mecha show like the olden days, I need something that doesn't in any way imaginable look like Code Gease.

Eureka Seven (TV series)

I will note that the series has a slow start. I also consider it more of a love/coming of age story that has giant robots in it. Nice OST, too.

Late 90s and early 2000s has Gao Gai Gar (TV series was out around 1997, FINAL around 2003).

[Elixir]

I've never liked anime, nor actively watched seasons up until Steins;Gate's distribution recently, and that's only because I'm a fan of the original novel.

My only true experience with anime is Samurai 7, sometime in 2004, when I was blindly messing around with Winamp's streams. It was good, but suffered from a massive quality drop when they realized they weren't financially in a position to churn out elaborate amounts per episode. You could tell they stockpiled everything into the last few episodes as well. Unfortunate, because otherwise it was enjoyable. It's been moe moe kyun garbage ever since.

For novel to anime, they're always horribly inaccurate transitions which are either too fast, too slow, or miss memorable moments from the games. I'm not really into novel games myself, but Steins;Gate takes my interest, primarily because I was a fan of huke. Oh, and because the game itself is really, really good. That shit will make you cry.

What I don't recommend is going from anime to game. It just doesn't "feel" right, like watching a movie the second time.

In recent times, I've watched Cowboy Bebop for the first time, thanks to someone streaming the entire thing. Pretty good, but I really have no idea why people highly regard Bebop. It's like the three final episodes are the only ones that have any continuity to them, the rest is just filled with aimless fluff. Speaking of aimless, Lucky Star is another title which had such a bloated amount of hype behind it that I just had to check it out - for 3 episodes - before I realized it was aimless and another one of those shows that have nothing of value in them.

Mecha stuff bores me to death. We aren't going there.

[Siren2011]

I just want to say that, as the lamentable lack of content available to the true anime fan continues to increase as years go by, I feel very fortunate to have lived in such a prosperous era as far as Japanese animation is concerned (Ninja Scroll, Eva, Dragon Ball Z, Bubblegum Crisis, Burn Up W, Outlaw Star, Gunbuster, Tekken: The Movie, etc.). I feel sorry for the next generation of kids and onward. Most of them will never be bothered to search out anything that isn't shoved down their throats by the media (Miley Cyrus and other such pitiful drivel). We had it great, guys.

[austere]

...can anyone propose a reason for this cultural decline?

Rise of the internet allowed Japanese shutins to create a religion (ie collective hallucination) were it's acceptable to fantasize about raping your little sister, since non-children/family members are so hard to talk to. Then these unremarkable specimen become animators and writers.

The mechanism you described in an very concise way are evident. I was actually going for a more general reason, looking far and beyond Japan itself, which has declined a little later in the game, thus attracting the "Otaku/Weeabo" culture in the west. The important step here is the creation and wide acceptance of a religion as you stated. One remaining question is why Japanese people accept the shutin culture, why can't they pressure their offsprings to ... become human beings?

It even infected the masters. Pre-internet shutinnery gave us the Appleseed and Berserk mangas.

There's an eye to every poo storm, check out Akumetsu by Yoshiaki Tabata and Yuki Yugo. I might check out their other stuff too, just to see if they still represent the old school.

Actually, that question has been weighing on my mind for some time now! I've not found an answer. If you could meticulously explain the reason and how all of these things are connected (if they are), then I'm all ears, bro. You write some interesting stuff.

I threw the question out there because I was interested in people's replies. I really liked JoshF's explanation for the Japanese domain. I haven't completed my own investigation, but icy's genealogy is a great place to start -- it gave me the final clue I needed to nail it. I highly recommend you read it (if you haven't already), especially the second chapter. I've been working on this topic since the start of 2004, prompted by the declines I saw all around me. Once I've thought through it all and put pen to paper (to finally free myself) I'll let you know.

Anyways, western modern animation suckage comparison:

Old school transformers intro (Season 2): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdz1oWtYU-0
New school transformers intro (get out your vomit bags): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WElNiiPJvUA

Complete lack of creativity. Zero interesting animations. Shitty proportions of "robot" characters. Poorly rearranged music. "But, but, rose tinted gla--*front teeth gets knocked out by sucker punch*".

[ratikal]

Stupid amounts of pointless fan-service. Just look at High School of the Dead. That show alone is why I don't tell people I watch anime, because that's probably what they'll think of, and judge me accordingly...

[GaijinPunch]

I think the fun thing about the hobby in the early 90's (in the US) was the mystery behind it all. Interwebs were young. To find out what was coming out you had to (gasp) by magazines, talk on BBS's and even trade VHS tapes through snail mail and pray to God it was subtitled.

[Never_Scurred]

I think the fun thing about the hobby in the early 90's (in the US) was the mystery behind it all. Interwebs were young. To find out what was coming out you had to (gasp) by magazines, talk on BBS's and even trade VHS tapes through snail mail and pray to God it was subtitled.

"sighs"....so true.
What sucked the most was when your local rental shop would only have a few episodes of a series. I was like "why bother with an incomplete series? errrrr...."
I first saw Bubblegum Crisis and Dominion Police Tank back in 1996. Didn't complete either series until 2008. Thanks, internet.

[Blackbird]

Well, here's a little something to break up your modern anime doldrums a bit. It's nothing earth-shatteringly revolutionary, but it'll only take you a little over 6 mins to watch, and is (probably?) funny.

The Legend of Koizumi

Yes, that is George W. Bush on a segway.

[Randorama]

30 years ago we were limited to what was shown on tv, anime-wise. Western channels, especially European ones (France, Italy, Uk, Germany and Spain to a lesser extent) tended to import series with more content than the average drivel shown on Japanese tv.

By a way of an hyperbole, France had the "Albator" generation (Harlock's "French name") because Tekkaman Blade was considered too stupid to taint the french youth. Berlusconi's tvs were constantly criticized for importing Shojo anime (e.g. Kimagura Orange Road), while public tv (Rai) showed e.g. Gundam, Area 88, Heidi by Miyazaki.

Hokuto no Ken or similar others went to pirate private tvs, because they were really garbage ("Me huge guy! Make you explode! 80 episodes of this!"...do you guys really miss this?). Mecha anime except Gundam were *banned* from all tv except pirate ones: "monster of the week" series were considered garbage by default.

Nowadays it takes a click to discover that Anime is mostly made up of garbage, etc. etc. etc. What changed between 30 years ago and now is the ability for pathetic western losers to access more garbage than before. I am pretty sure that nowadays there are more series in production than 30 years ago, so the amount of fodder has to be in proportion higher. The perception that quality has gone down is likely based on this increase, as well.

In all seriousness, one would need to sit down, take the list of anime per year, check plot and content, find a way to objectively measure "quality" (please re-read this last sentence...), etc.

Then, one could make a comparison between now and then and check if anime has gone down the drain. That's enough work for an expert of japanese culture to write a Ph.D. thesis about, and probably do a post-doc on it, since it involves really a market which was not for gaijin until a few years ago, and involves likely a ten thousand of series or so.

Said this: a certain style of old-school anime has indeed disappeared. Shows that included a critique of society, or presented the point of view of marginalized people (again, Ashita no Joe, others I am forgetting) appear to have faded away, especially within sci-fi settings.

Works such as Harlock, Towards the terra, Ashita no Joe, Honnemaise, now would probably be completely ignored. Let's not forget that Harlock was "re-conceptualized" after a few years as 'the endless odyssey' series, which removed only worthwhile, intelligent aspects and became a "let's fight the aliens gaijin zomg!' garbage.

There is still something worthwhile to watch - Planetes is a superb hard sci-fi series, Arakawa under the bridge is a touching story about denpasan and one salaryman, other *Seinen* series that I can't recall now are there, and they are well-crafted. There are still anime targeted for adults that are worth watching, but they need scavenging. Or: Skykid, don't whinge all time about the drivel, anime producers in Japan don't think about adults when designing afternoon series (i.e. rubbish). They didn't 30 years ago, they're not doing it now.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

I need a good mecha show like the olden days, I need something that doesn't in any way imaginable look like Code Gease.

For chempop,

Check out all twelve episodes of "Viper's Creed" streaming on Sony's Crackle.com site. It features some cool futuristic motorcycle mecha that transform into armored slave suits. The first episode has a cool main enemy "boxy" mecha unit that looks that it'd fit in the GiTS universe with it's overall aestethics/design indeed.

Or check out all three Blu-ray OVA episodes or streaming versions of "Gundam Unicorn U.C. 0096" in full 1080p -- they feature some bad-ass Gundam gun battles in zero-gravity enviroments. The storyline gets rather complicated (a nod towards old-school anime/OVA titles when they had such complex plots/numerous characters to advance the story/pacing along -- i.e. "Crystal Triangle" anime film comes to mind). The events that take place during the Universal Century 0096 timeline with an experimental Gundam unit code named RX-0. It's on Sony's USA region PSN site & Xbox Live's Zune site -- as a live-stream or d/l rental.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[GaijinPunch]

The Legend of Koizumi

Yes, that is George W. Bush on a segway.

I was about to make a Prime Minister joke until I realized that's what it is.

A bunch of stuff.

Part of it (well, most of it) is the nostalgic aspect, obviously. However, looking back at some of the "children's" kids shows I grew up on (Gatchaman, Yamato) I'd definitely rate them above drivel. Even if the stories weren't award-winning (they were aimed at children, remember?) they still had creativity and by and large lacked cliche'. A lot of stuff I enjoyed from the 80's started to employ cliche' and other crap, but I don't think to the extent that it is today. Throw in the whole CG versus hand-painted argument (which I agree, is no different than vinyl vs. digital, 2D versus 3D, RGB vs. S-Video) and I think it's quite obvious what we miss (and it's also a valid complaint).

Saying that the majority of anime is garbage is not really fair... well, it's just painfully obvious. Why? The majority of everything is garbage. Music -- all genres, games, movies, TV, you name it. I love electronic music, but when I buy tracks to DJ I generally put an average of 3 for every hundred I hear in my cart, and probably only eventually buy half of those at best. And that's sticking to my main genre. O_o

As a new father, I've had my eyes opened about what makes a child's mine tick... well, my son's, anyway. He's quite young and mainly watches educational stuff and Anpanman. But, his latest thing is some cheesy Sentai show (Gowchaser or some shit) but he only watches the opening sequence. When it all comes down to it, rather than substance I'd rather see creativity, and I know that's what my son wants to see. I felt there was more of that going around back then as compared to now.

As for some of the specifics of the drivel comment... I think a lot of the drama-esque shoes from back then are crap. I think I watched all of Orange Road even though it did nothing for me. However, after clicking through an episode after moving here (one came on late night cable at the house of my GF [now wife] some time ago), you pick up on a lot of cultural and linguistic intricacies. Most of my Japanese friends told me ages ago they didn't see how anyone that wasn't Japanese would enjoy such a show. To an extent, they are right. Being an otaku doesn't make you a Japanese culture guru. I think many can enjoy them, but it's a different type of enjoyment. Honestly, I'd simply tip my hat to a lot of Japanese-produced kids shows of old as they were the only ones with any type of serial storyline, which by definition is more challenging than self-contained episodes.

[Randorama]

Part of it (well, most of it) is the nostalgic aspect, obviously. However, looking back at some of the "children's" kids shows I grew up on (Gatchaman, Yamato) I'd definitely rate them above drivel. Even if the stories weren't award-winning (they were aimed at children, remember?) they still had creativity and by and large lacked cliche'. A lot of stuff I enjoyed from the 80's started to employ cliche' and other crap, but I don't think to the extent that it is today.

I did not focus on this aspect, true. This is little topic of discussion by itself. I agree that A LOT of modern series recycle cliches to no end, but older series were not completely innocent too. It is much harder to track back the source. A while ago Gualtiero Accorsi, who worked on the acclaimed Italian versions of Ghibli's movies, told me that early anime very often recycled cliches from other media, and as such early critics of the (then) "new" medium criticized this lack of originality, especially since people were using a new form of communication. Recycling is a standard practice in crafts - sometimes it is not that obvious, or we're not old enough to spot it.


[/quote]
Saying that the majority of anime is garbage is not really fair... well, it's just painfully obvious. Why? The majority of everything is garbage. Music -- all genres, movies, TV, you name it. I love electronic music, but when I buy tracks to DJ I generally put an average of 3 for every hundred I hear in my cart, and probably only eventually buy half of those at best.
[/quote]

Let me be clearer. My main point was that the percentage of good, not top-notch anime may have not decreased over the years, while I am not sure about good (not outstanding) works. If the percentages have decreased, what we perceive is that overall quality declined, because for e.g. a constant of 1 top-quality series per year, we now get e.g. 14 instead of 9 decent series (per year).

Furthermore, if the quality of the one top series per year has increased over time, then the "average" series will look worse, and the effect will be magnified by their higher numbers. In general, it is the change in ratios of quality that give us the feeling that things have improved/worsened.

As a new father, I've had my eyes opened about what makes a child's mine tick... well, my son's, anyway. He's quite young and mainly watches educational stuff and Anpanman. But, his latest thing is some cheesy Sentai show (Gowchaser or some shit) but he only watches the opening sequence. When it all comes down to it, rather than substance I'd rather see creativity, and I know that's what my son wants to see. I felt there was more of that going around back then as compared to now.

ask your son how many of his friends worship sentai. Or, as an experiment, grab some 70s sentai stuff and see how he reacts. I doubt that he would tolerate sentai of yesteryear - they were garbage then, and they are now. I'd worry about lack of creativity in other genres, to be fair.

As for some of the specifics of the drivel comment... I think a lot of the drama-esque shoes from back then are crap. I think I watched all of Orange Road even though it did nothing for me. However, after clicking through an episode after moving here (one came on late night cable at the house of my GF [now wife] some time ago), you pick up on a lot of cultural and linguistic intricacies.

Ok, but you're mentioning a genre which has improved over the years. Oshojo mangas nowadays tend to be better, and reflect the *slight* improvement of the role of women in japanese society. Some have a well-done character development (Ouran High School club), which was a no-no in older series. Classic shojos were *all* about stereotypes, while some modern authors are slowing eroding away this attitude to the genre. Other genres weren't that lucky: modern sci-fi anime are really a mixed bunch, for instance.

Most of my Japanese friends told me ages ago they didn't see how anyone that wasn't Japanese would enjoy such a show.

You mean Kimagura? It has a "generational" status in Italy, France and some other Latin countries. Same for Maison Ikkoku and Rough. Have your Japanese friends travelled abroad? I am sorry but I find this kind of comments to be deeply myopic, although we'd probably agree that the average japanese person (say, my future brother-in-law) is quite naive about the impact of Japanese culture outside Japan.

I think many can enjoy them, but it's a different type of enjoyment. Honestly, I'd simply tip my hat to a lot of Japanese-produced kids shows of old as they were the only ones with any type of serial storyline, which by definition is more challenging than self-contained episodes.

I don't know about this. I wonder what was the ratio of "monster of the week" to "well designed series" back in, say, '83. Maybe lower than now, maybe higher. Certainly, if we focus on sci-fi series, some old serializations "for children" were of higher quality than the ones going around now.

[GaijinPunch]

Recycling is a standard practice in crafts - sometimes it is not that obvious, or we're not old enough to spot it.

Indeed, we can go back and say that just about everything has been done. Is anything truly original? Not really -- it's all inspired by something else. Some is just done better than others. Perhaps it's just after X years of being a fan, it got old.

Let me be clearer. My main point was that the percentage of good, not top-notch anime may have not decreased over the years, while I am not sure about good (not outstanding) works. If the percentages have decreased, what we perceive is that overall quality declined, because for e.g. a constant of 1 top-quality series per year, we now get e.g. 14 instead of 9 decent series (per year).

Definitely not keeping score. I can say that I've seen nothing of the caliber of Wings of Honneamise or Akira since... well, Wings or Akira. There's some good stuff out there, but Akira's soundtrack has yet to be topped... or even approached. Albeit I'm out of the picture but I try to keep up music on all fronts when I can.

Ok, but you're mentioning a genre which has improved over the years. Oshojo mangas nowadays tend to be better, and reflect the *slight* improvement of the role of women in japanese society. Some have a well-done character development (Ouran High School club), which was a no-no in older series. Classic shojos were *all* about stereotypes, while some modern authors are slowing eroding away this attitude to the genre. Other genres weren't that lucky: modern sci-fi anime are really a mixed bunch, for instance.

Never really read them... and fair enough if they're really touching on issues women have in society today. This would kind of come to my point about not being able to fully appreciate a Japanese series of any media without a lot of experience in the culture. Women in the work place? Ha --

You mean Kimagura? It has a "generational" status in Italy, France and some other Latin countries. Same for Maison Ikkoku and Rough. Have your Japanese friends travelled abroad? I am sorry but I find this kind of comments to be deeply myopic, although we'd probably agree that the average japanese person (say, my future brother-in-law) is quite naive about the impact of Japanese culture outside Japan.

I heard these statements before I moved to Japan... one by a Japanese guy that lived in the US from somewhere around middle school. By and large, he was right though. Maison Ikkoku was pretty popular (I quite liked it) as I thought I could relate to it. Then, I spent 18 months living in a single-room apartment and getting down to my last few thousand yen each month. Anyone can enjoy it, true, but that's like saying a Japanese can properly enjoy an episode of Seinfeld.

I don't know about this. I wonder what was the ratio of "monster of the week" to "well designed series" back in, say, '83. Maybe lower than now, maybe higher. Certainly, if we focus on sci-fi series, some old serializations "for children" were of higher quality than the ones going around now.

I can't think of any US shows I watched as a kid that were serialized.

[JoshF]

I doubt that he would tolerate sentai of yesteryear - they were garbage then, and they are now. I'd worry about lack of creativity in other genres, to be fair.

What's wrong with sentai/monster of the week? Monster of the week, like boss of the end of the stage, is an evergreen concept as long as some imagination and occasional twists are put into it.

I'm glad austere liked my explanation even though it was primarily intended for humor. I don't doubt is has some truth but it's probably just the tip of the iceberg. To describe the degradation process without getting into psychoanalysis I'd say it's mostly caused by less talented people's work becoming a model. For example look at that awful Bruce Timm Batman from the 90s. It looks like a bunch of squares and triangles put together and the form/musculature is so simplified it looks like a rough sketch. It was done either because Bruce Timm is a bad artist (I haven't seen much of his stuff so I'm not sure) or so animators could crank out more cels with less effort and talent, or maybe both. When it became acceptable for something to look like that it erased all past perceptions of aesthetics for the industry.

[Blackbird]

I don't really remember the soundtrack to Akira being all that good. It's been a long time though. I should really go back and watch it one of these days, I can probably appreciate it better now that I'm older.

[GaijinPunch]

I don't really remember the soundtrack to Akira being all that good. It's been a long time though. I should really go back and watch it one of these days, I can probably appreciate it better now that I'm older.

If you thrive on stuff on the radio, you likely won't like it. If you like most other Japanese production, you likely won't like it. If you like your ears to be challenged, then it might be up your alley. I rank it as the best Japanese production ever (and I've heard a fairly decent amount). I think in reality it went over most people's heads though. Seeing it performed live is also a treat, although it doesn't have the oompf of their current electric production.

For those that do like the soundtrack, Geinoh Yamashirogumi's Ecophony Gaia is their Kesha-styled offering and is amazing.

[chempop]

I sure am glad I had an older brother who not only got me watching Akira when I was in elementary school, but imported the soundtrack (best soundtrack ever btw). Yes, I also got way into the Project A-Ko soundtrack (Explosion and Spaceship in the Dark!!!) and still listen to that to this day.

My bro imported laserdiscs, and he download translations on-line... What a couple freaks we were. I still give him shit for selling off his turbo-duo and macross toys... Those Invids probably go for a fortune now.

[Randorama]

Long rant, sorry...

Perhaps it's just after X years of being a fan, it got old.

"Philosophy feels a lot like watching re-runs of the Jeffersons, after you pass the '40s" Jerry Fodor (!) (I think I am getting the tv show wrong).

Definitely not keeping score. I can say that I've seen nothing of the caliber of Wings of Honneamise or Akira since... well, Wings or Akira. There's some good stuff out there, but Akira's soundtrack has yet to be topped... or even approached. Albeit I'm out of the picture but I try to keep up music on all fronts when I can.

Paul, dear, you're citing two exceptions to any written rule about animation for sure, and perhaps art in general. I know that Akira did very well, but for all its lavish and undeniable artistic quality, it did stick to certain canons of manly sci-fi anime, so the relevant demographic was willing to pay money for it.

Wings of Honnemaise was a total failure, you know? The crisis that brought Gainax to collapse during Evangelion was born with "Wings". As far as I know "Wings" was found irksome by the average basement nationalist war-monger mama-con fan, and sold remarkably poorly (Greg actually knows the actually story behind its flop well, I recall).

Aside quixotic hyperboles, I simply don't think that now any anime company would be willing to throw away tons of yens to produce a Milestone that wouldn't sell to the hardcore fans. Once was enough, apparently.

I heard these statements before I moved to Japan... one by a Japanese guy that lived in the US from somewhere around middle school. By and large, he was right though. Maison Ikkoku was pretty popular (I quite liked it) as I thought I could relate to it. Then, I spent 18 months living in a single-room apartment and getting down to my last few thousand yen each month. Anyone can enjoy it, true, but that's like saying a Japanese can properly enjoy an episode of Seinfeld.

"C'mon, can you?! You're not from New York!" a Queens' mother of a friend of mine regarding Seinfeld. Doesn't Jerry Seinfeld speak with a *specific* form of NY accent?

No, one can't really get all the details, but how much detail is really significant for a series to be enjoyed? Just to be pedantic, if culture-specific "details" make up 5% of a series' volume of attractive aspects, I doubt the series' appeal is lost in translation. Just to stick to Kimagura or Maison Ikkoku, I think that the general appeal of those series lies in the elegant presentation of humanity they offer.

Sure, the Tokyo-specific details of their lives were invisible to me or millions of Italians and French 20 years ago, but evidently they did not weigh that much to weaken the impact of the series.
















And how about this: I saw Honnemaise on tv, on a Saturday in 1991, introduced by a 20-minutes special on Rai Tre on Japanese sci-fi culture. The host was visibly proud to introduce the movie to the audience (Rai 3=Italy's BBC3/4, i.e. the "public/snob" channel). My father bought pizza and Cola and told me that we were going to watch something special. He decked me at least twice telling me to STFU, since I was *about* to make a question instead of being silent during the movie.

[Obiwanshinobi]

If you thrive on stuff on the radio, you likely won't like it.

That surely depends on the station. When I couldn't afford to buy that many records and piracy wasn't as easy as the internet made it, I very much thrived on the radio stuff and that's how I got introduced to Neu!, Zeni Geva, High Tide and many other obscurities. Hearing Akira OST one of these days on the radio wouldn't have surprised me.

[Devil REI]

I love how everyone is now correctly ignoring the icycocksucking circlejerk squad.

Meanwhile: Tiger and Bunny, guys. Goooooooooood shit.

[Siren2011]

You sound like a nerd on the playground making fun of the older kids because they enjoy playing soccer and being social, unlike sitting at the lunch table alone picking your nose and eating your boogers. Seriously, weaboo. Grow up.

[Skykid]

I don't really remember the soundtrack to Akira being all that good. It's been a long time though. I should really go back and watch it one of these days, I can probably appreciate it better now that I'm older.

If you thrive on stuff on the radio, you likely won't like it. If you like most other Japanese production, you likely won't like it. If you like your ears to be challenged, then it might be up your alley. I rank it as the best Japanese production ever (and I've heard a fairly decent amount). I think in reality it went over most people's heads though. Seeing it performed live is also a treat, although it doesn't have the oompf of their current electric production..

Akira's soundtrack is a marvellous piece of work. There's as much love and integrity in its composition as there is in the film, and it's genuinely unique for a cinema score.

I love how everyone is now correctly ignoring the icycocksucking circlejerk squad.

I'm not.

Well, I'm ignoring anything related to Icycalm being considered an acceptable or intelligent human being, but apart from that Siren has raised some good arguments, most of which (in relation to anime) I agree with.

[GaijinPunch]

Paul, dear, you're citing two exceptions to any written rule about animation for sure, and perhaps art in general. I know that Akira did very well, but for all its lavish and undeniable artistic quality, it did stick to certain canons of manly sci-fi anime, so the relevant demographic was willing to pay money for it.

Wings of Honnemaise was a total failure, you know? The crisis that brought Gainax to collapse during Evangelion was born with "Wings". As far as I know "Wings" was found irksome by the average basement nationalist war-monger mama-con fan, and sold remarkably poorly (Greg actually knows the actually story behind its flop well, I recall).

Hmmm... Shenmue was a total failure as well -- doesn't make it any less awesome. I'm purely talking about something high quality, and conceived out of the box (boy, that sounded perverted). The above two had both, were both pretty to look at. Both had stellar soundtracks (something 99% of anime has never had due to the infusion w/ the abomination that is J-Pop). I don't have to have an entire studio animate a cloud to move me, and I admit I'm not current on things. But every time I poke my head into the underbelly of the anime world, I don't find anything that really woos me (although I've wanted to see Redline for a while now).

Aside quixotic hyperboles, I simply don't think that now any anime company would be willing to throw away tons of yens to produce a Milestone that wouldn't sell to the hardcore fans. Once was enough, apparently.

We can move this argument to the form of any media. It's why the games industry sucks big old balls right now.

"C'mon, can you?! You're not from New York!" a Queens' mother of a friend of mine regarding Seinfeld. Doesn't Jerry Seinfeld speak with a *specific* form of NY accent?

Japanese aren't going to be familiar with all the off-the-cuff Jewish jabs, and whatnot. The puns are a whole other story. I've actually watched the show (and similar) w/ English speaking Japanese people. There's lots of explaining gong on.

Sure, the Tokyo-specific details of their lives were invisible to me or millions of Italians and French 20 years ago, but evidently they did not weigh that much to weaken the impact of the series.

To me, it's the subtleties that make a show though.

That surely depends on the station.

Of course -- that's just a fancy way of saying "regular music".

I love how everyone is now correctly ignoring the icycocksucking circlejerk squad.

Who are the members of said squad?

[GaijinPunch]

Fun Fact: Apparently the only reason Gainax stuck together was b/c they had to pay back loans they took out for Honeamise. Wonder if it made money in some alternate universe.

[Skykid]

Fun Fact: Apparently the only reason Gainax stuck together was b/c they had to pay back loans they took out for Honeamise. Wonder if it made money in some alternate universe.

That's terrible.

[Randorama]

Hmmm... Shenmue was a total failure as well -- doesn't make it any less awesome. I'm purely talking about something high quality, and conceived out of the box (boy, that sounded perverted). The above two had both, were both pretty to look at. Both had stellar soundtracks (something 99% of anime has never had due to the infusion w/ the abomination that is J-Pop).

Economical success is not causally related to quality, otherwise there would be no "musical industry" right now, I think. I think that Honnemaise tried too much at once, to be economically successful.

In general, there's a limit to how much one can think outside of the box, and be palatable to the masses.

Craig Venter

was told that his method for decoding the DNA sequence was not good enough, and yet he did it before anyone else. He went from lunatic to hero, but because his gamble paid off. He thought outside the box, but not that much.

Babbage's failure in producing a differential machine that actually worked, for mechanical reasons (his machines worked but were too big), had a big negative impact on research regarding automatic computations. He thought completely outside the box, to the point that his ideas were, like, 100 years too early. He thought too much outside the box.

I think that Honnemaise fell in the 'babbage' case...I would not be surprised that in some circles, the movie is conceived as a memento for not trying too hard to produce stellar (but "too innovative") products.