Why modern anime sucks nowadays?

[Obiwanshinobi]

Asking for lasers, robots and dreamy hunks with scars on barren chests wearing leather - is to be asking for mere fanservice. If people who fund Japanese animation listen to you and decide "now we are going to spend this bucketful of money targeting pouty manbabies raised overseas in eighties-nineties for a change", the outcome will most likely be as souless as this recent neo-proto-punk fad. When over a decade ago bands like Kyuss, The Presidents of the USA, Monster Magnet etc. played somewhat "retro" music, I found it fresh, exciting and coming from heart. What bands like The Strokes and White Stripes did, however, to my ears is a sound of exhumation. I can stand Motörhead, AC/DC, even The Rolling Stones doing their thing in this day and age just fine, but I'm not buying the lo-fi remake of rock & roll AGAIN. Like, for the third time? Analogically, I doubt something along those lines would do anime much good. Quality is not a matter of settings, fetishes and wishful thinking.
They made yet another Hokuto no Ken film a couple of years ago, didn't they? How did "the fans" like it?

[Skykid]

Asking for lasers, robots and dreamy hunks with scars on barren chests wearing leather - is to be asking for mere fanservice. If people who fund Japanese animation listen to you and decide "now we are going to spend this bucketful of money targeting pouty manbabies raised overseas in eighties-nineties for a change", the outcome will most likely be as souless as this recent neo-proto-punk fad. When over a decade ago bands like Kyuss, The Presidents of the USA, Monster Magnet etc. played somewhat "retro" music, I found it fresh, exciting and coming from heart. What bands like The Strokes and White Stripes did, however, to my ears is a sound of exhumation. I can stand Motörhead, AC/DC, even The Rolling Stones doing their thing in this day and age just fine, but I'm not buying the lo-fi remake of rock & roll AGAIN. Like, for the third time? Analogically, I doubt something along those lines would do anime much good. Quality is not a matter of settings, fetishes and wishful thinking.
They made yet another Hokuto no Ken film a couple of years ago, didn't they? How did "the fans" like it?

This is just another way of regurgitating the rose tinted spectacles argument again. Pointless.

We don't want them to go back and make carbon copies of themes from the 80's and 90's, we just want them to go and make something good. Surely that's not too much to ask.

[Obiwanshinobi]

We don't want them to go back and make carbon copies of themes from the 80's and 90's, we just want them to go and make something good. Surely that's not too much to ask.

There's plenty of asking for fanservice in this thread.

[Paradigm]

Basically I just wanna see less girly shit and more cool, violent shit.

[Never_Scurred]

In summary
More of this


Less (preferably NONE) of this
Link

Mod Edit: Pic too big.

We don't want them to go back and make carbon copies of themes from the 80's and 90's, we just want them to go and make something good. Surely that's not too much to ask.

Basically I just wanna see less girly shit and more cool, violent shit.

[Barrakketh]

Speaking of giant robots and "modern" anime, how many of you have watched the Gundam Unicorn OVAs?

[cstle]

We don't want them to go back and make carbon copies of themes from the 80's and 90's, we just want them to go and make something good. Surely that's not too much to ask.

There's plenty of good stuff though.

[DragonInstall]

Because most animes have stories that sound like it was aimed towards 13 year olds. Same typical girly happy go lucky stuff. No originality...

I feel as if they aren't putting any work into it and just cashing on stupid weeaboos who eat up all that bullshit. Very similar to how I feel about most modern day games.

[Blackbird]

I sort of feel like Anime is in the same position now that American comic books were in the 80's and early 90's. It's becoming ever increasingly focused only on pandering to it's hardcore audience, and I feel that the industry will eventually crash when that hardcore audience (eventually) ages and moves on, while no new fans have been attracted.

I don't feel like Anime is going to go away altogether, rather, I think there will be a crash, then, with any amount of luck, a resurgence of interest. Again, in the same manner that American comics saw increased interest in the classics with the adaptation of old standbys to film during the early 2000's. Now, American comics are enjoying a renaissance, and the acknowledgement of some of the better writers and their innovative (and edgy?) subject matter is driving a diversification of the medium, and revival of interest in comics as a whole.

Oh, and I suppose the advent of webcomics had a lot to do with that, as well, haha.

Bleh, rambling. The point I wanted to get to was that, while things look boring now, I think eventually the people making anime will rediscover what they found interesting about the medium in the first place, and it will become great again.

[Barrakketh]

I sort of feel like Anime is in the same position now that American comic books were in the 80's and early 90's. It's becoming ever increasingly focused only on pandering to it's hardcore audience, and I feel that the industry will eventually crash when that hardcore audience (eventually) ages and moves on, while no new fans have been attracted.

I don't know if you've been paying to the industry over the past few years, but there has already been a crash. That's partly the reason why so many moe-blob and mindless fanservice series have been produced - it's catering to the audience that is spending money on merchandise that any sane man would avoid because it would kill their chances of getting laid the second a woman saw that crap in their bedroom.

Studios producing lots of not-good series over the past several years hurt them a lot when people stopped buying a ton of the genuine crap (poorly produced in addition to being mindless tripe). Now they're mostly sticking to safe(r) sources of income and not taking many risks when it comes reaching out to the non-hardcore audiences.

To some degree the studios are also focusing more on OVA releases. They usually sell considerably better (and tend to be "long burners"), aren't under the same kind of time constraints as a TV series, and have a tendency to be better produced.

[Obiwanshinobi]

If there's not enough fast food eateries for your liking in your area, it's not because there's too many liquor stores. Those things don't compete with each other.
If you want violent stuff, watch Darker than Black. Not extremely graphic, but they do rough stuff to each other on a regular basis in that show. I'm pretty sure there's more stuff with violence as such being made.

There's plenty of good stuff though.

Perhaps, but since things can be good in more ways than one can imagine, for the sake of discovering good stuff you must personally watch what's out there and make your mind for yourself. It takes time, patience, good will and a spirit of adventure. Bitching about stuff you didn't even watch does not equal asking for something good.
If in your younger days things you liked were easier to come by, then how very comfortable for you, old chap. If you don't like what's been popular recently, go dig through some obscurities.

[DragonInstall]

I don't know if you've been paying to the industry over the past few years, but there has already been a crash. That's partly the reason why so many moe-blob and mindless fanservice series have been produced - it's catering to the audience that is spending money on merchandise that any sane man would avoid because it would kill their chances of getting laid the second a woman saw that crap in their bedroom.

That explains a lot to me. I was wondering why anime turned into this moe blob shit. What got me into anime as a kid was the serious tone anime was back then. It felt like grown up cartoons, but now it completely flip flopped.

My first exposure to anime was Ninja Scroll the movie, and damn that blew my mind away. To this day, thats my all that favorite anime.

Recently I've been feeling a bit retro and wanted to watch some tmnt2003 series just for fun, and I was amazed at how good the animation and fight scenes were compared to anime. Is that weird? A kid show had way more impressive animation and fight scenes then any modern anime?

[Blackbird]

I still think you guys just aren't watching the right anime. There is still plenty of well animated, dark anime out there oriented toward an adult audience. You just have to dig a little further to find it now, is all.

Another to add to the list: Hellsing Ultimate.

[Obiwanshinobi]

TMNT 2003 was animated by a South Korean studio. If you think much of its animation, watch Aachi & Ssipak.

dark anime out there oriented toward an adult audience

When I see such a sequence of words, it's usually peddling some juvenile, cringe-worthy, po-faced material. "Hey, it's DARK, don't you know. It's for ADULTS, no less. Isn't it, by any chance, MATURE?"

[Never_Scurred]

TMNT 2003 was animated by a South Korean studio. If you think much of its animation, watch Aachi & Ssipak.

dark anime out there oriented toward an adult audience

When I see such a sequence of words, it's usually peddling some juvenile, cringe-worthy, po-faced material. "Hey, it's DARK, don't you know. It's for ADULTS, no less. Isn't it, by any chance, MATURE?"

Oh, you mean the stuff thats actually entertaining to those who don't fancy watching little saucer-eyed girls and androgynous looking teenage boys prance around for 20+ episodes?

Haters gon' hate. "shrugs"

With that being said, I thought Claymore was decent, if a bit long winded. Never bothered to finish the series, I gotta dig it back up.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Dude, when you posted that gory pic-spam and labelled it "mature", I thought you were joking.
If anybody around here believes there was no bad stuff back in the day, go watch this. It's only 3 episodes, it's about as eighties as they get, it's got top-notch splatter, lesbians with fully developed bodies and it's fucking HORRIBLE (judging from the first episode, and I liked the very first Battle Athletes OAV, mind you).
I don't mind retro antics, but they are no recipe for brighter future of anime.

[DragonInstall]

TMNT 2003 was animated by a South Korean studio. If you think much of its animation, watch Aachi & Ssipak.

Oh wow didn't know that.

To be honest.. I've never seen choreographed fights look so flashy and well done in any form of animation. TMNT 2003 makes me wonder how in the hell they got a budget to do that. They do fight scenes straight out of martial arts films with funny stuff like Jackie Chan.

I'd say TMNT 2003 is the most impressive animated series I've seen, in terms of animation quality and choreographed fights. It's a very nice take on the old school 80's version.. I like it way more than that, and I grew up on the 80's version.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Hajime no Ippo is a safe recommendation when it comes to animated hand-to-hand combat. Without typical shounen manga over-the-top-ness, that is.

[Never_Scurred]

Dude, when you posted that gory pic-spam and labelled it "mature", I thought you were joking.
If anybody around here believes there was no bad stuff back in the day, go watch this. It's only 3 episodes, it's about as eighties as they get, it's got top-notch splatter, lesbians with fully developed bodies and it's fucking HORRIBLE (judging from the first episode, and I liked the very first Battle Athletes OAV, mind you).
I don't mind retro antics, but they are no recipe for brighter future of anime.

Nobody's glasses are THAT rose tinted to think there wasn't anything bad coming out of the anime scene back in the day so don't even try to play that card.
Its just that unlike now, much of the stuff that was considered bad was actually entertaining and didn't make you ashamed to enjoy it. Hell, I was a big fan of Ranma 1/2 back in high school despite never getting to finish the series (damn you Star Video...RIP), but just because something has blood and gore in it doesn't automatically make it bad, nor does a desire for more mature-themed anime automatically mean mindless boobs and ultraviolence (even though that would be cool, i'd be fine with that). I think both could coexist perfectly. The problem is that the market is too skewed in the favor of those who prefer looking at cutesy saucer-eyed little girls and whatever else comes with that scene and no one else for reasons already explained in this thread. I think something like Ninja Scroll fits the bill perfectly for something that was mature-themed, but had a great story and was crafted very well. Even something along the lines of Shigurui. Or does animated sex and violence turn you off completely?

[Never_Scurred]

TMNT 2003 was animated by a South Korean studio. If you think much of its animation, watch Aachi & Ssipak.

Oh wow didn't know that.

To be honest.. I've never seen choreographed fights look so flashy and well done in any form of animation. TMNT 2003 makes me wonder how in the hell they got a budget to do that. They do fight scenes straight out of martial arts films with funny stuff like Jackie Chan.

I'd say TMNT 2003 is the most impressive animated series I've seen, in terms of animation quality and choreographed fights. It's a very nice take on the old school 80's version.. I like it way more than that, and I grew up on the 80's version.

Wow...I may have to borrow the dvd to see how it looks.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Its just that unlike now, much of the stuff that was considered bad was actually entertaining and didn't make you ashamed to enjoy it.

Quite recently Innocent Venus did that for me. Good? Hell no. Entertaining? Sort of.
Even Texhnolyze, which I can easily file under "wanna-be-serious", is a well directed, properly paced show I enjoyed regardless of its pretentions.

I think something like Ninja Scroll fits the bill perfectly for something that was mature-themed, but had a great story and was crafted very well.

With this I can very much agree. It's a good film, no matter how you look at it.

Or does animated sex and violence turn you off completely?

Not at all. I just find the polarity of opinions stiffling. When you divide things into "old" and "new", or into "mature" and "kiddy", stuff like Windy Tales falls out of the picture and that's bloody wrong.

[Skykid]

I revelled in the immaturity of certain 90's anime because of its extremes. That was what made anime different from anything I'd seen before.

However, if you look at the list I posted up earlier, it's not a list composed entirely of slaughter flicks. My tastes, when it comes to what I consider to be the best stuff I've seen, actually panders less to that type of movie. I like films that are creative in style and visuals, but also in storytelling and imagination.

But looking at immaturity then (bare chested ultraviolence and decadent sex in a dark sci-fi universe), compared to immaturity now (peeking at seven year old girls in the shower), there's really no competition.

[Never_Scurred]

But looking at immaturity then (bare chested ultraviolence and decadent sex in a dark sci-fi universe), compared to immaturity now (peeking at seven year old girls in the shower), there's really no competition.

That is exactly what I was getting at. For myself, at least, being a teenager, I was hungry for newer, fresher cinematic experiences and anime helped provide that. It was easier for me to be entertained (even if I was totally aware that what I was watching was crap) simply out of the sheer novelty of seeing the medium peverted the way it was (though I will attest that the limited selection of titles had ALOT to do with it as well, beggars couldn't be choosers). BLOOD+GORE+TITS or BIG MECHS helped compensate for any shortcomings I was either too immature to perceive or that were too obvious to ignore (poor dubbing, fogging/blurring, etc.). I did appreciate the occasional reach for greatness (Wings of Honneamise, Grave of Fireflies, Akira), but I was mostly preoccupied by the FotNS, La Blue Girls and Ninja Scrolls cause that was what was readily available and we didn't have the internet as a filter to use beforehand. I remember stealing anime guides from Barnes and Noble just to get a good idea for what I was missing that hadn't been brought over here. I was hoping that with the rising popularity of anime in the west and the internet at the turn of the century, we would be seeing more of these types of flicks, but revisiting the scene in 2008, I was shocked that it was not the case. Instead what we got was more Adult Swim-styled shows which was good for a time, but ultimately led to the acceptance and then dominance of the moe/loli/cutesy/slice-of-life/androgynous dude shit that we have now. Its kinda the same reason that videogames suck now, kids these days just can't stfu and be entertained. I don't want everything to be Studio Ghibli all the time, damnit.

There's no such thing as getting too old for anime in general. What does happen when you get older is that you get a more refined taste. When you're very young you're just not very picky. The reason you no longer like Ninja Scroll is, frankly, because it's crap. There's a lot of good anime out there still, try watching something like Death Note or Spirited Away.

Its attitudes like this that is killing anime. Just because YOU got old and YOUR tastes became refined certainly doesn't mean that the good ol' nasty, exploitative nature of the medium (which made it popular outside of Japan in the first place) should be done away with. I could have respected that opinion up there if at least that same person didn't recommend Death Note of Spirited Away as alternatives. Man, kids are soft these days.

[Skykid]

I could have respected that opinion up there if at least that same person didn't recommend Death Note of Spirited Away as alternatives. Man, kids are gay these days.

Fixed.

And I absolutely agree, throwing up Death Note as an alternative to anything (letalone the sheer badassness of Ninja Scroll) is a bit like signing your credibility away in one fell swoop. And anything Miyazaki is like clutching at straws cos you can't think of any other example.

As Scurred said, when I was a kid it was all A.D Police, Wicked City, Golgo 13, Alita, Akira, Patlabor, Dominion TP, Urotsukidoji, Ultimate Teacher, Crying Freeman, Fist of the North Star, Cyber City Oedo, Project A-ko, Gunsmith Cats, Moldiver, Vampire Hunter D, Tenchi Muyo, 3X3 Eyes, Ghost in the Shell etc etc.

While I could tell some of it was total baloney and purely for titillation, I enjoyed its extremes. Looking back, Ninja Scroll remains high in my estimation because despite being of that 'genre', it's undoubtedly one of the best of the bunch (and is one of the only Anime where I prefer the US dub to subtitles).

But after I had exhausted everything the Manga Video label could give us here in the UK, I sought out other stuff like Perfect Blue (which I won a cinema preview to) and started to discover that anime went beyond the realms of straight up sex/violence/gore into cinema that could give any live action flick a run for its money.

Nowadays I can't find anything of that caliber, one of the reasons I was so sad to hear of Satoshi Kon's passing. When he died I remember thinking, "shit, who's left?"

[Obiwanshinobi]

I like to think I got hooked on anime because it was good rather than exotic.
The first anime I watched fully aware of its Japanese origins was Doubutsu Takarajima in a movie theater back in the eighties, and it was a downright enchanting experience. Having rewatched it in this century, I'd found it still mighty good (more compelling than recent Ghibli efforts).
But what do you know, the cartoons I liked best as a kid, having no idea where they came from, turned out to be Japanese as well: Maya the Honey Bee, Dogtanian and the Three Muskehounds, Around the World with Willy Fog, Arabian Nights: Sinbad's Adventures are what I remember as particulary badass.
I tend to not judge things by their target demographics.

Nowadays I can't find anything of that caliber, one of the reasons I was so sad to hear of Satoshi Kon's passing. When he died I remember thinking, "shit, who's left?"

I for one found his films (Perfect Blue and Paranoia Agent) immature in a bad way. He starts as if he wanted to screw with your head, but in the end shits out a story of Stephen King caliber. Those two times I was like "And...? Is that it?" Perfect Blue for my money didn't come close to giving Repulsion (or even Hitchcock flicks) a run for their money.

[Siren2011]

I hate to be anal retentive here, but Paranoia Agent is a series, not a "film".

I'd say TMNT 2003 is the most impressive animated series I've seen, in terms of animation quality and choreographed fights.

You mean the CG one? I don't remember much about it, but Advent Children probably puts it to shame in terms of action sequences. That said, AC was rubbish as far as the story was concerned. It was, by and large, a film capitalizing on the nostalgia of pre-pubescent otaku and G4TV fanatics. Nostalgia plays a key role in Square Enix's sales model. Otherwise, no one in their right mind would by tripe such as Crisis Core...and Dirge of Cerberus (This guy right here did).

[Obiwanshinobi]

I hate to be anal retentive here, but Paranoia Agent is a series, not a "film".

That's one of things wrong with it. Seems like he wanted to make a film, but was told to make 13 episodes instead, hence the dilution.

[Siren2011]

What difference does it make if it was a film or a show? Did the show have a lot of filler or something? Why the need to condense it into a movie?

Please be a bit more specific, Obiwan.

[Skykid]

Nowadays I can't find anything of that caliber, one of the reasons I was so sad to hear of Satoshi Kon's passing. When he died I remember thinking, "shit, who's left?"

I for one found his films (Perfect Blue and Paranoia Agent) immature in a bad way. He starts as if he wanted to screw with your head, but in the end shits out a story of Stephen King caliber. Those two times I was like "And...? Is that it?" Perfect Blue for my money didn't come close to giving Repulsion (or even Hitchcock flicks) a run for their money.

Perfect Blue is a very well directed movie. It's highly convoluted by the end, in the same way many Japanese productions with any semblance of plot tend to be (Kojima-itis), and for that reason it doesn't give cinema of Stanley Kubrick caliber a run for its money, but 95% of Hollywood garbage, sure.

And Paranoia Agent, despite having much the same failings, is also excellent.

My favourite Satoshi Kon flick is Tokyo Godfathers however, that one has it all.

[cstle]

Nowadays I can't find anything of that caliber, one of the reasons I was so sad to hear of Satoshi Kon's passing. When he died I remember thinking, "shit, who's left?"

Look harder.