Pricing in XBLA

[bcass]

If cheaper prices didn't get them more sales, why would MS continue having frequent discounts on XBLA titles?

As a means to promote old games. And yes, it does get them extra sales, but does it get more sales than had they just re-promoted the game at the same price at a later date? The answer is, we don't know. In a way, it's a different argument, because most products lose their value over time anyway.

[nZero]

Don't forget that the discounts they do offer are often limited to the people who are already paying $40~60/yr for XBL Gold. As far as the shooters priced at 1200MSP, Raystorm HD has yet to receive a discount, and R-Type Dimensions was available for 800MSP to Gold members for 1 week back in 2009 (Deal of the Week promotion).

Edit - Since I guess this came from the RSG thread-- I don't understand the argument about including "both" versions, the Saturn version already had Saturn + Arcade mode, why not just call it a port/graphical remake of the Saturn version?

[Paradigm]

As I said, 1200 is a more than fair price considered what people usually pay for this game. But when I have the option of paying 600/800 rather than 1200 by waiting 6-12 months, I'll do that

You'd prefer to wait 6-12 months just to save about $5?

Do you live in a cardboard box?

[Necronom]

As I said, 1200 is a more than fair price considered what people usually pay for this game. But when I have the option of paying 600/800 rather than 1200 by waiting 6-12 months, I'll do that

You'd prefer to wait 6-12 months just to save about $5?

Do you live in a cardboard box?

If you're sitting on a pile of unfinished games a wait of six months might be quite reasonable, yes
Seriously, this xbla summer will get quite busy anyway...and bloody hell, have you seen the trailer for the new Bloodrayne game?! And then there are Bastion, From Dust, Insanely Twisted Shadow Planet...RSG can wait imho.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

PPl moaning about 1200msp games is a pet peeve of mine, while I can see the point of waiting 6 months for a £40 to hit the bargin bin (Which is what I do myself). I cant understand why gamers get their knickers in a twist over a couple of quid when the game is a bargin anyway.

Ill add those guys who buy used games from gamestop for £5 off the RRP (even though they can buy it even cheaper new from Amazon).

If you're sitting on a pile of unfinished games a wait of six months might be quite reasonable, yes
Seriously, this xbla summer will get quite busy anyway...and bloody hell, have you seen the trailer for the new Bloodrayne game?! And then there are Bastion, From Dust, Insanely Twisted Shadow Planet...RSG can wait imho.

Yeah I suppose theres nothing wrong with that, as its something ive done with indie steam games, but I dont feel buthurt about the games original price

[Jeneki]

Since we've got a pricing topic running here, I'm curious how the price of indie games are chosen. Some are a buck, some up to three. And I have to say there are more $1 games I enjoy than $3 games. Is it just the filesize of the download?

[Sumez]

If you're sitting on a pile of unfinished games a wait of six months might be quite reasonable, yes

Exactly. Even if I buy RS when it comes out, I probably wouldn't get around to play it until 6 months later anyway.

PPl moaning about 1200msp games is a pet peeve of mine, while I can see the point of waiting 6 months for a £40 to hit the bargin bin (Which is what I do myself). I cant understand why gamers get their knickers in a twist over a couple of quid when the game is a bargin anyway.

The thing is, no one is getting "their knickers in a twist", I'm merely stating that IF the game gets a 1200 msp price tag, I'll wait till it's available cheaper because I CAN, and a lot of other people will do the same.
I'd never have a problem actually paying 1200 msp for the game, but people seem to constantly miss out that part of my posts.

[Sumez]

Since we've got a pricing topic running here, I'm curious how the price of indie games are chosen. Some are a buck, some up to three. And I have to say there are more $1 games I enjoy than $3 games. Is it just the filesize of the download?

Well, there are three available price tags for XBLIG titles - 80, 240 and 400 MSP
However, the 80msp price is only available if your game is smaller than 50MB

Despite bcass's claim that the fact that cheapers games sell more copies is an unproven fact, people have been running some pretty in-depth studies proving that you'll not only sell hell a lot more games on XBLIG with a cheaper price, you'll also end up making a lot more profit. Like you said, you are at least as likely to enjoy the $1 games, so you'd rather try out three $1 games than one $3 game, right?

If an indie game is below 50MB, a good approach might be to release it at 240 points, and then lower the price to 80 after three months. Of course, it all depends on the amount of PR you put into the project.

[bcass]

Despite bcass's claim that the fact that cheapers games sell more copies is an unproven fact, people have been running some pretty in-depth studies proving that you'll not only sell hell a lot more games on XBLIG with a cheaper price, you'll also end up making a lot more profit.

Please don't misquote me. I continually went out of my way in my posts to make it explicit that I was talking about XBLA, not XBLIG. The iPhone/Android/XBLIG ultra-budget markets are completely different, which is why I never once mentioned them.

[Sumez]

Well, I was talking game in general, not just XBLA.
I can't really think of any arguments why the trend should be different for XBLA titles, compared to physical retail games and everything else that costs money, but I don't really feel like we get anywhere by continuing that discussion.

[bcass]

I can't really think of any arguments why the trend should be different for XBLA titles

I can think of plenty. Those market places are completely different. On the one hand you have XBLA where most games are released at the upper price points, then you have XBLIG where almost everything is released at the lowest price point. Even then, only a very, very tiny minority are seeing anything remotely approaching half decent sales. People aren't flocking to it because there's money to be made. If they are, then I think they're deluded and would be better making games on other platforms.

[Sumez]

This is the third time you quote one of my posts, cutting off half of the sentence - which would be fine if you'd at least not completely ignore the second half, pretending I said something entirely different.

I can't really think of any arguments why the trend should be different for XBLA titles, compared to physical retail games and everything else that costs money

[bcass]

Don't be such a drama queen. My response works eitherway, with or without the part I omitted. After all, do XBLIG titles not cost money? Of course they do. That's the flaw in your argument. You're trying to apply some single arbitrary rule to vastly different markets.

[Sumez]

It is one of the most basic rules of any type of marketing
Fine with me if you won't believe me, but I don't see the point in discussing it.

[bcass]

I don't believe you because it simply doesn't exist. There is no single rule that governs all markets where pricing is concerned.

[jepjepjep]

It's quite simple. They're charging 1200 space bucks because they think that the profit will be greater (at the higher price vs. the increased sales from the fence-sitters at the lower price). Price is set by demand (or perceived demand, NOT by development costs). RSG has a long tradition of word-of-mouth praise, and it has been a very expensive import for a long time. I'm sure Treasure recognizes this and is hoping to cash in $$$.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

The thing is, no one is getting "their knickers in a twist", I'm merely stating that IF the game gets a 1200 msp price tag, I'll wait till it's available cheaper because I CAN, and a lot of other people will do the same.
I'd never have a problem actually paying 1200 msp for the game, but people seem to constantly miss out that part of my posts.

Yeah fair dues, I was mostly making a blanket statement at gamers in general than at you. Just think of me as an old codger who likes to break out in a rant everytime other ppl discuss history or politics

[Austin]

Here is my take on the whole thing...

Radiant Silvergun. I will pay the $15 in a heartbeat. There are many factors contributing to this, but it being one of my favorite games out there and it being ridiculously expensive on the Saturn equals an instant purchase from me.

Now with that out of the way, I am disappointed by $15 being the average price for XBLA games these days. I very rarely buy XBLA titles anymore, outside of the occasional shmup that is published (most recently, Trouble Witches and Strania).

Four or five years ago, I bought XBLA games on the regular. This is partly due to there being more games I was interested in (Smash TV, Geometry Wars, TMNT, Contra, Double Dragon, etc.), but a huge factor was price. $5 a pop for those classics? Hell yes, bring it on, I say.

Those were the good old days of XBLA gaming. Sure, there were plenty of 800 point games. Street Fighter II, DOOM, etc. Even those were OK though. They brought the classics back with added functionality. Sweet. And there were still plenty of 400 point games to go around, so all was good.

NOW, just about every new game is 800 points. Most seem to be moving to 1200 points. There are a lot of factors involved, sure--the average game is larger and there is probably more money being put into development, but what the hell man.. If your games are going to be so large and in-depth, distribute through Games on Demand instead. Or in other cases (Monkey Island games, for instance), release a packaged compilation on disc. Then at least we know our games will still be around once this 360 service bites the dust (yet another reason I am hesitant in spending $15 on a XBLA title).

[Sumez]

That pretty much echoes how I feel about it

[bcass]

You get what you pay for. For example, those early coin-op XBLA releases were just a bunch of emulators. Imperfect ones at that - some of the music in Double Dragon, for example, is completely fucked up. The amount of effort required to cobble that kind of release together is a world apart from the effort required to do what Treasure have done with Radiant Silvergun. I know which I prefer.

[Necronom]

You get what you pay for. For example, those early coin-op XBLA releases were just a bunch of emulators. Imperfect ones at that - some of the music in Double Dragon, for example, is completely fucked up. The amount of effort required to cobble that kind of release together is a world apart from the effort required to do what Treasure have done with Radiant Silvergun. I know which I prefer.

While the above said is certainly true one has to wonder whether this new trend of charging 1200 for most new xbla releases will not end up undermining the system. The premium price point of 1200 msp most certainly results in a lot less impulse buys because it so closely approaches the actual price of older or second-hand disc based games. For example, why should anybody buy a new shmup for 1200 on xbla when they can have the disc release of Deathsmiles for around 15 Euros from zavi or some other online shop? I prefer G.rev's elegant solution - charge 800 msp for the main game and then 400 for the additional content.

[bcass]

On the whole, I think the quality of titles on that service has gone through the roof recently, especially in the last year or so. Compare the quality from 5 years ago to what we have now and it's apples and oranges. Some of the titles being released now were started 2 to 3 years ago (even longer in the case of Fez). I don't think it's too much to ask players to pay a price that reflects both the quality of the product and the amount of effort that goes into making it.

The way I always look at it is like this - how many beers would £10 buy you in a bar? Not more than 3 (and quite often just 2). It's not going to take you more than an hour to an hour and a half to drink those beers. Can you honestly say that a professionally produced peice of entertainment that has taken a small group of people 2+ years is not worth the price of 2 or 3 beers? Even the shortest games take longer than 2 hours to complete, and that's not even taking into account replayability.

Apple has a lot to answer for by selling software at rock-bottom prices, but most games on that service are complete shit and were cobbled together in a matter of weeks/months, not years.

[Sumez]

However, you're still assuming that a titles priced 33% lower will also make 33% less profit (even if you think I can't "prove" that it's not the case, I dare say you can't prove otherwise)
The thing is, the price doesn't necessarily have to reflect "the effort gone into making the game", especially in this age of digital distribution, where lower prices have proven to be a great source of income for developers.

[bcass]

lower prices have proven to be a great source of income for developers.

On iOS devices and Steam maybe. There aren't many people making any money out of selling their games for 80MSP on XBLIG.

[Sumez]

Generally, there aren't a lot of people making money off XBLIG