Babycastles: The first arcade for artfags, by artfags.

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TrevHead (TVR)
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Re: Babycastles: The first arcade for artfags, by artfags.

Post by TrevHead (TVR) »

Yeah you have a point, if it acts as a gateway to arcade gaming for the COD kiddies then im all for it, although those games that were highlighted dont seem like arcade games, more like simple Wii party games. What are the other games like at babycastles? is there anything close to an arcade game at all?

If those organising Babycastles who claim to be classic arcade fans rather then pseudo fans should atleast make so effort to educate their customers as to what real arcade gaming really is and put a real arcade cab or a Winnitron cab with lesbian spider-queens of mars on it :)

Anyway looking at that pictures and that vid of the venue there's no chance in hell something like that would be able to exist in the UK as any local council would shut it down for Health & Safty / Beer licencing Laws as soon as they set their eyes on it :roll:
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Re: Babycastles: The first arcade for artfags, by artfags.

Post by dmauro »

TrevHead (TVR) wrote:If those organising Babycastles who claim to be classic arcade fans rather then pseudo fans should atleast make so effort to educate their customers as to what real arcade gaming really is and put a real arcade cab or a Winnitron cab with lesbian spider-queens of mars on it :)
I don't know that they claim to be classic arcade fans, but I know someone who helps organize the events and he is very much a classic arcade fan. The problem with getting a real arcade unit in there is that they are expensive and things in there are prone to getting damaged because they have shows and these things are getting moved around all the time. The DIY aspect of Babycastles has a lot to do with necessity as much as aesthetic I think.
CIT wrote:I bet the guys that started this are into Scott Pilgrim and stuff.
I'm not sure how you got from here to there, and I don't know that any of them are into it, but I am. It's a pretty decent game and my roommate made a sick as hell soundtrack for it. Maybe give it a try?
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Re: Babycastles: The first arcade for artfags, by artfags.

Post by TrevHead (TVR) »

but I know someone who helps organize the events and he is very much a classic arcade fan.
Maybe you could persuade the guy to put a DIY mame cab in there :)
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Re: Babycastles: The first arcade for artfags, by artfags.

Post by louisg »

dmauro wrote:
CIT wrote:I bet the guys that started this are into Scott Pilgrim and stuff.
I'm not sure how you got from here to there, and I don't know that any of them are into it, but I am. It's a pretty decent game and my roommate made a sick as hell soundtrack for it. Maybe give it a try?
You're roommates with one of the Anamaniguchi guys? I saw them a few years back when they performed at the DNA Lounge in SF. They were pretty good.. seemed like nice kids, too.
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Re: Babycastles: The first arcade for artfags, by artfags.

Post by jonny5 »

louisg wrote:
dmauro wrote:
CIT wrote:I bet the guys that started this are into Scott Pilgrim and stuff.
I'm not sure how you got from here to there, and I don't know that any of them are into it, but I am. It's a pretty decent game and my roommate made a sick as hell soundtrack for it. Maybe give it a try?
You're roommates with one of the Anamaniguchi guys? I saw them a few years back when they performed at the DNA Lounge in SF. They were pretty good.. seemed like nice kids, too.
I was gonna ask the same thing. :lol:

I caught them last time they played here. All the VGM kiddies weren't ready for me starting a circle pit and stage diving; imagine all those spindly arms trying to hold my drunken ass up while screaming along to 'my skateboard will go on'! Hey, its all punk rock to me man!

Good times! 8) :lol:
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Re: Babycastles: The first arcade for artfags, by artfags.

Post by dmauro »

TrevHead (TVR) wrote:
but I know someone who helps organize the events and he is very much a classic arcade fan.
Maybe you could persuade the guy to put a DIY mame cab in there :)
That's essentially what they are. They're all PCs, they just aren't running MAME because they're not trying to sell you on classic commercial titles, but the indie stuff that even fewer people are aware of.

I was there a few nights ago and played this great side-scrolling shooter, except you don't shoot, you have a magnet and you throw enemies' bullets back at them. It completely would have passed me by otherwise. Generally speaking, every time I go I'm introduced to at least one new game that I enjoy.

To clarify, this isn't a collection of games; think of it more as a gallery with different curators showing off various games.
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Re: Babycastles: The first arcade for artfags, by artfags.

Post by Udderdude »

dmauro wrote:I was there a few nights ago and played this great side-scrolling shooter, except you don't shoot, you have a magnet and you throw enemies' bullets back at them.
If you're talking about this .. http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=36284

It's ass.
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Re: Babycastles: The first arcade for artfags, by artfags.

Post by Elixir »

duckman wrote:
Siren2011 wrote:
Ah, the church of Icycalm lives on
Not a church, I just like his terminology. :wink:
Funny, I always liked icy's impeccable thinking.
Please, no ironic posting here.
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Re: Babycastles: The first arcade for artfags, by artfags.

Post by alastair jack »

Reminds me of these people http://youtu.be/tq3bXwVPChQ
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Re: Babycastles: The first arcade for artfags, by artfags.

Post by Udderdude »

alastair jack wrote:Reminds me of these people http://youtu.be/tq3bXwVPChQ
This is seriously the best thing Mega64 has ever done.

And I hate Mega64. :P
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Re: Babycastles: The first arcade for artfags, by artfags.

Post by Babycastles »

We're sorry, Shmups.System11.Org :oops:

http://vimeo.com/24273541
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Re: Babycastles: The first arcade for artfags, by artfags.

Post by spadgy »

dmauro wrote:it could actually be fun to go to a Brooklyn loft and try out a fun (yes, plenty of the games they showcase are a lot of fun) game you've never heard of with some strangers with similar interests.
This. The more arcades the better, and the more diverse the range of arcade the better. I'm so lucky to be part of an arcade community that meets up at a public arcade every week, and the more ways there are to do that, (guess what? ) the better. I've heard from people here in the UK Babycastles lacks some of the grimy, gaudy magic of what us lot consider a 'proper arcade', but it's still great that Babycastles exists, and I'd love to visit the place. Variety is the spice of life and all that, and there's little wrong with being open minded in this context.

That said, I'm an 'artfag'. I like indie games, dress like a prick and I live in East London.

EDIT:
Babycastles wrote:We're sorry, Shmups.System11.Org :oops:

http://vimeo.com/24273541
Brilliant! That makes me warm to Babycastles a lot!
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Re: Babycastles: The first arcade for artfags, by artfags.

Post by Udderdude »

Babycastles wrote:We're sorry, Shmups.System11.Org :oops:

http://vimeo.com/24273541
One of the statements in this video is true, and the other is false. See if you can figure out which .. :P
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Re: Babycastles: The first arcade for artfags, by artfags.

Post by Siren2011 »

Awesome! I have a greater influence on people than I thought! :lol:
I like indie games
Hey man, there's nothing wrong with liking a decent doujin game every now and then. I was merely poking fun at the whole "our boring, simplistic games are a neu form of videogame art, so take that Ebert!" mentality that many artfags seem to have. The truth is (and it should be obvious by now), Babycastles cannot be called an arcade. To do so is nonsensical (I know, I'm guilty as charged).

Arcade: an amusement center that has coin-operated games.

That means that Babycastles is nothing more than a gathering of artfags to showcase their latest homemade parodies of genuine games.

There's an "indie" STG that it's impossible to die in (I forgot it's name), and you hardly ever have to move. That is the kind of stripped down shit that is praised to no end for stupid reasons, such as "hidden meanings" and other such hallucinations and retardations, while they (the artfags) ignore the true works of art in the genre like they never happened. For if that crap was to be compared side-by-side with Mushihimesama Ultra, for example, the artfags would appear in the public's eye as silly as their game (assuming the general public was smart enough to recognize the difference in quality. Just don't hold your breath on that, eh?)

Just for the record, I used to be a brainwashed artfag, myself. I really enjoyed No More Heroes back in the day (I was attracted to the "violence" and "hidden meanings", not the core mechanics, and I couldn't care less about the game's lack of depth-- moreover, liking a game for "hidden meanings" is to be understood as utterly nihilistic and anti-gaming. :oops: ), when I had no idea that Ninja Gaiden ever existed. But when I got my hands on it, I never went back to NMH, or its sequel. This is how taste evolves-- I replaced a simple, ugly as sin game with something more exciting, aesthetically pleasing, and raw. If I never read that Insomnia review of the game (which offended me deeply at first), I would have never had the urge to seek out a real 3D Hack and Slasher. NMH belongs at the very bottom of the spectrum.
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Re: Babycastles: The first arcade for artfags, by artfags.

Post by Udderdude »

I'm just going to go on record saying that this animated GIF has more artistic merit than every game in Babby'sfirstindiegamecastle combined.

Image
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Re: Babycastles: The first arcade for artfags, by artfags.

Post by Siren2011 »

:D
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Re: Babycastles: The first arcade for artfags, by artfags.

Post by Weak Boson »

Button sounds dire but it's hard to get a sense of the games they have there are actually like; if people are playing games together and enjoying themselves then good for them. The only worry is that they distract people from (for want of a better word) real arcade games. Are people going to se Babycastles and think "oh, so that's what arcades are about"? I hope not, because it looks like they're rejecting pretty much everything that makes arcade gaming good.
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Re: Babycastles: The first arcade for artfags, by artfags.

Post by JoshF »

While there are people who like "indie" games because the word "indie" is used, there's no one who dislikes "indie" games because the word "indie" is used. The reason people dislike "indie" games is because "indie" is merely a subcategory of "shit" games, where words like "independant," "art," and "fan" are employed as shields against the obvious criticisms of their deficiencies. Companies like Insomniac and Platinum are as independant as the companies Ipecac and Touch and Go and certainly more independant than a couple of dudes in a basement with Game Maker, because their greater resources and skills give them more freedom of possibility a.k.a. independence. However you won't see Hideki Kamiya being talked about as one of the great "indie" designers of all time, because if people like him and his team's work were added to the pool it would really expose how childish, inept, and primative the "true" "indie" designers and their works really are. Similar situation with "fan games". Bayonetta was made by the biggest fans of Devil May Cry and 3D actions game. Not only were they in love with the mechanics of Devil May Cry but they also loved the spirit of Devil May Cry which was to create something way better than what previously existed. That's why the best fan games are better than their inspiration and not fucking 8-bit "demakes."
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Re: Babycastles: The first arcade for artfags, by artfags.

Post by JoshF »

"hidden meanings"
Let's talk about this too. Hidden meanings or messages are bad messages and messages communicated through symbolism and allegory are by definition simplistic and muddy. Let's compare:

Message communicated through written language by a linguist: http://www.amazon.com/Hegemony-Survival ... 0805074007

Message communicated through symbolism by an illustrator:
http://www.marriedtothesea.com/101207/p ... toon-2.gif
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Re: Babycastles: The first arcade for artfags, by artfags.

Post by louisg »

JoshF wrote:While there are people who like "indie" games because the word "indie" is used, there's no one who dislikes "indie" games because the word "indie" is used. The reason people dislike "indie" games is because "indie" is merely a subcategory of "shit" games, where words like "independant," "art," and "fan" are employed as shields against the obvious criticisms of their deficiencies. Companies like Insomniac and Platinum are as independant as the companies Ipecac and Touch and Go and certainly more independant than a couple of dudes in a basement with Game Maker, because their greater resources and skills give them more freedom of possibility a.k.a. independence. However you won't see Hideki Kamiya being talked about as one of the great "indie" designers of all time, because if people like him and his team's work were added to the pool it would really expose how childish, inept, and primative the "true" "indie" designers and their works really are. Similar situation with "fan games". Bayonetta was made by the biggest fans of Devil May Cry and 3D actions game. Not only were they in love with the mechanics of Devil May Cry but they also loved the spirit of Devil May Cry which was to create something way better than what previously existed. That's why the best fan games are better than their inspiration and not fucking 8-bit "demakes."
That's more or less true about bad art being exempt from criticism by being low budget. But, I think also one thing you're missing is the low (or non-existent) budget of modern indie games. I think the modern indie movement is maybe a little more like the early 90s shareware scene. For example, I used to love games like Secret Agent or Jill of the Jungle, and would probably have enjoyed a makeshift arcade where I could hang out and play them with other low-budget game fans. And this is a case of "a couple of guys make a game" and not "game designer manages to get Capcom to greenlight their game"-- two completely different cases.

One thing that does bug me a lot in games, music, and other media, is that hastily-assembled low budget creations are often hailed as more honest or raw than creations that have a lot of research and work put into them. That shouldn't be the case; the two should be able to co-exist, and people should be honest when one or the other sucks, and be honest when one or the other exceeds expectations.

Anyway, if you look at the games I cited above, you got Apogee and Epic Megagames out of the deal. Their first "indie" games weren't great, but Apogee catapulted ID Software to fame and Epic Megagames was eventually responsible for games like Gears of War. In the case of ID, you got an entirely new popular genre because people were willing to check out merely OKish games like Commander Keen and Wolfenstein 3d instead of just playing much better put-together games that were available on console.

That said, if I see one more crappy game like I Made A Game With Zombies In It, I'm gonna freak out, man!
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Re: Babycastles: The first arcade for artfags, by artfags.

Post by JoshF »

Doom came from Commander Keen and Wolfenstein 3D the same way Metal Slug came from Gunforce; there were a bunch or really talented and passionate people working together who had some experience that improved their skills and helped them learn from their past mistakes. Croteam didn't need a publisher to greenlight their game, they made an awesome game and a publisher came a'knockin'. Same with Doom, which was published by GT Interactive. If you watch Matt Chat on Youtube you'll see that all the old classics were made by guys who worked their asses off in high school, met some other cool people and made some cool shit. They weren't rich and no publisher had them at gunpoint. And back then, they didn't have the resources like Gamemaker and a robust internet.
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Re: Babycastles: The first arcade for artfags, by artfags.

Post by louisg »

JoshF wrote:Doom came from Commander Keen and Wolfenstein 3D the same way Metal Slug came from Gunforce; there were a bunch or really talented and passionate people working together who had some experience that improved their skills and helped them learn from their past mistakes. Croteam didn't need a publisher to greenlight their game, they made an awesome game and a publisher came a'knockin'. Same with Doom, which was published by GT Interactive. If you watch Matt Chat on Youtube you'll see that all the old classics were made by guys who worked their asses off in high school, met some other cool people and made some cool shit. They weren't rich and no publisher had them at gunpoint. And back then, they didn't have the resources like Gamemaker and a robust internet.
Oh, there were game construction kits all over the place. I used to make stuff in SEUCK and Arcade Game Construction Kit. There were others on the Apple (including one I think which was also called GameMaker).

It's true though, that the guys at ID were talented and hard working, but to be really honest, their early games were not very good. They certainly didn't play better than crap like Super Meat Boy. And their other contemporaries, Apogee and Epic (who managed to get a lot of attention), made and published plenty of mediocre games themselves.

None of these PC DOS shareware games up until Doom were quite as good or polished as many of the independent-but-more-commercial games made by 8 and 16-bit computer programmers. AFAIR, Doom was done after they had made plenty of moolah off lesser games, and I'm sure it had a comparatively large amount of time put into it (not to mention several people working on the thing).. it's a similar situation to now: Shareware was new and exciting, and there was the novelty of playing games on a DOS machine (as opposed to an Amiga or whatever), but you really would have to compare it to the other small scale commercial releases of the era, many of which were also essentially bedroom-programmer projects. Again, we're giving something like Commander Keen 1 free bonus points because it was underground, and it wasn't offered in stores.

Anyway, I'm not very tuned into the indie scene, and I'm absolutely turned off by a lot of what I see today, but I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater just yet-- some of these developers could turn into something later just as the other devs I mentioned have.
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Re: Babycastles: The first arcade for artfags, by artfags.

Post by lilmanjs »

Sumez wrote:B.U.T.T.O.N. sounds like it should be on XBLIG along with "get your girlfriend into games" and "avatar zombie massage".
B.U.T.T.O.N. is an XBLIG game if I remember correctly. The guy who did the music has made some great games for the PC :)
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Re: Babycastles: The first arcade for artfags, by artfags.

Post by TrevHead (TVR) »

Oh the drama :lol:

They might be artfags, but I like em
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Re: Babycastles: The first arcade for artfags, by artfags.

Post by RNGmaster »

Babycastles wrote:We're sorry, Shmups.System11.Org :oops:

http://vimeo.com/24273541
Best post from a new poster in a long time. I lol'd!
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Re: Babycastles: The first arcade for artfags, by artfags.

Post by Sumez »

Pretentious Indie Gamer Scene:
http://superfundungeonrun.com/pigscene/
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Re: Babycastles: The first arcade for artfags, by artfags.

Post by szycag »

I love the idea of arcade/art installations, but stuff like B.U.T.T.O.N. seems intentionally frivolous. People look like they're having a lot of fun though so I'm open-minded. Punk in the sense of being subversive can be an amazing thing, but this just seems punk as in "fuck trying hard, me and my friends did this and with some beers and stuff it'll be amazing". Which is cool too, I guess, but this seems more like a little house party than something that truly contributes to culture. My advice to you beardy guys is put some heart into it and do something truly innovative, I hope you can pay the rent long enough to do that.
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Re: Babycastles: The first arcade for artfags, by artfags.

Post by Lordstar »

spadgy wrote:
That said, I'm an 'artfag'. I like indie games, dress like a prick and I live in East London.
Yeah if you were any less nice than you are I would fucking rib you bad for that dude. :lol:
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Re: Babycastles: The first arcade for artfags, by artfags.

Post by Zeron »

I guess judging the whole place by just looks is wrong, but really they need to patch the place up right now it looks like some backalley where you would get molested.
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Re: Babycastles: The first arcade for artfags, by artfags.

Post by Udderdude »

By a beardo drinking Starbucks. >_>
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