Japanese earthquake relief giving

[Skykid]

Basically dismissing everything you don't think is right makes you look close-minded and proves you're not capable of thinking outside the box.

Yeah?

Tell it to the Osama Bin Laden thread.

[GaijinPunch]

Yeah?
Tell it to the Osama Bin Laden thread.

I believe you were told there, too. Going against the grain just to do so basically hands the debate to the other side. Do some research... don't simply be bitter against capitalism in general.

[Skykid]

Yeah?
Tell it to the Osama Bin Laden thread.

I believe you were told there, too. Going against the grain just to do so basically hands the debate to the other side. Do some research... don't simply be bitter against capitalism in general.

Why would you think I'm "going against the grain just to do so?", and that I draw conclusions without having assessed any information?

(Are you trolling me mofo? )

That's not my M.O. man, I don't make my bed in one camp just 'because': I assess the information I've been privy to and come to a conclusion based on that information.

Just like you, I'm sure.

Capitalism is a hymn sheet we all have to sing from, and you can make it work for you. Doesn't change the fact that it's an inherently flawed and outdated economic system that offers too much control to those with wealth so that they may accrue more wealth and more control. It's no different to slavery really, it's just slavery 9-5, 6 days a week and with a McDonalds badge.

The richest 1% of adults owned 40% of the world’s total assets in the year 2000. The richest 10% of adults accounted for 85% of total assets. The bottom half of the world adult population owned 1% of global wealth. (Source: World Institute for Development Economics Research, The World Distribution of Household Wealth, 2006).

And how do you keep dragging me into these conversations eh? Are you pushing me on purpose, or are you really suffering from 'last word syndrome'?

[nZero]

Just for fun, I grabbed this from our current userlist, sorted by current postcount, along with a couple of quotes from this very thread

Code: Select all

1  GaijinPunch  Mon Jan 31, 2005 19:22  10548
2  Ed Oscuro    Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:13  8152
3  BulletMagnet Wed Jan 26, 2005 00:05  8014
4  Rob          Tue Jan 25, 2005 20:58  6985
5  Skykid       Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:16  6884

are you really suffering from 'last word syndrome'?

Pot, kettle, black

[GaijinPunch]

Why would you think I'm "going against the grain just to do so?", and that I draw conclusions without having assessed any information?

B/c the following is a very broad-sweeping, and not true statement.

I'm sure the hard work is done by the grunts, same as everywhere else.

I've been surrounded by grunts that don't do jack shit. Trust me, not only do they exist, but they're the norm.

You can bitch and moan all you want about capitalism... the fact is, plenty of people benefit from hard work, on every level. I come from lower middle class in suburban fucking Texas. My parents had to make huge sacrifices to send me to a really cheap private school. I had to pay back my parents for part of my college so my sister could get married (but we had established this when it happened -- it was my study abroad here that tipped the scales). I have a Liberal Arts degree only, I'm now working in front office. Why? I busted my fucking balls to get here, and currently earn every penny I make. The fact is, most people want to do minimal work for their wage, and it shows. If these are the grunts you refer to as doing your work, you've assessed your information in some type of Bizarro utopia. I'm economically liberal, but I don't think people should be given something just because someone else has too much. There are rewards for a reason - to create the incentive to work. The same reason as adults we have consequences.

Note that I'm not talking about the distribution of wealth, which I believe is indeed skewed, but I can't get excited for people that don't want to help themselves. I know it's not for everyone, but when I got out of University, I started studying even harder. I cracked on my Japanese for hours a day, and eventually was reading about computers. Even now I'm continually upgrading myself for an ever changing marketplace, and I'm 36 with a wife & kid.

EDIT: Haha. N1, nZero.

[dcharlie]

yup - adding in to GP's statement. A long ramble with a point.

I'm from an area where the norm (from my generation) was to leave highschool at 16 with -maybe- 3 C grades. I'm from a working class family who burst their nuts to put me through University. I worked part time whilst studying for A-levels so i wasn't on the scrounge. I worked my ass off in my first job and made principle coder, then i applied for and got a job here which has been absolutely balls hard and stressful as hell.

When i go home, a fair few people there have this obsession with money and what you should and shouldn't be paid. I've had this conversation a few times and i've seen the notion repeated over and over in the local press at home. That notion is that -no one- should be paid more than 30k for their job. No one (though interestingly the people spouting this will be the first to brag about which multimillion pound signing their football team of choice just signed!) I just don't get it. The town actually managed to pursuade highly talented and influential people to come and help with the regeneration of the area - but people found out they were getting paid 100k plus a year and all hell broke loose.

So not only are there people where i'm from who don't want to help themselves, they also want to cap how much people who -do- want to help themselves can make.

I'm sure the hard work is done by the grunts, same as everywhere else

define what the hard work is and define what a grunt is.

Capitalism is a hymn sheet we all have to sing from, and you can make it work for you. Doesn't change the fact that it's an inherently flawed and outdated economic system that offers too much control to those with wealth so that they may accrue more wealth and more control. It's no different to slavery really, it's just slavery 9-5, 6 days a week and with a McDonalds badge.

bullshit.
it's fuck all like slavery. Which slave could quit? As per Gervais "Oh, i'm not enjoying it here and i hear i can get more working on the pyramids..."



Blackadder : Bloody explorers, ponce off
to mumbo-jumbo-land, come home with a tropical disease,
a suntan and a bag of brown lumpy things, and, Bob's your uncle,
everyone's got a picture of them in the lavatory. I mean,
what about the people that do all the work?

Baldrick: The servants.

Blackadder: No, me; *I'm* the people who do all the work. I mean *look*
at this! [goes to a table at the side of the room and
picks up a small brown thing and holds it up] *What* is it?

Baldrick: Oh, I'm surprised you've forgotten, my lord.

Blackadder: I haven't forgotten; it's a rhetorical question.

Baldrick: [looking at him] No, it's a potato.

Blackadder: To you it's a potato, to me it's a potato. But to
Sir Walter Bloody Raleigh it's country estates, fine carriages,
and as many girls as his tongue can cope with. He's making
a fortune out of the things; people are smoking them,
building houses out of them... They'll be eating them next.

[Skykid]

Way too much to do today to be drawn into another sprawling debate with the same two posters. Sorry gents.

If you think it's a perfect system, that's wonderful news.

[dcharlie]

If you think it's a perfect system, that's wonderful news.

i think you have a problem with jumping to conclusions - i don't think either of us have said it's a perfect system.

The main rebutals seem to be against the grunts doing all the work and that capitalism is slavery.

[GaijinPunch]

I work in a room by myself in shorts & a T-shirt. I could probably wank on the clock if I was fast enough although one boss did say it was against the rules in the office he rents for me. (Banging hookers is fair game according to him though). Real slave situation there

[Acid King]

That's not my M.O. man, I don't make my bed in one camp just 'because': I assess the information I've been privy to and come to a conclusion based on that information.

Only a moment ago you were all too happy to draw a conclusion based on absolutely no information so...

If you think it's a perfect system, that's wonderful news.

Bullshit cop out is bullshit.

[Skykid]

Bullshit cop out is bullshit.

No, bullshit cop out is sensible.

Debates on this forum tend to go on too long and round and round in circles. I'd love to talk up the virtues and foibles of the capitalistic system but I'd rather do it over a beer and face to face.

Short of writing an essay that no-one will read, trying to get points across in forum posts is tiring and easily mis-interpreted. I also have a bad habit of making blanket statements as generalisations that get scrutinised and in turn send debates off on tangents, forcing me to then rewind and do a full explanation from the ground up.

Economic and socioeconomic debate is complex an near inexhaustible and will probably spill into political and cultural splinter debates and so on and so forth.

I can't be bothered today. I have money to make.

Code: Select all

1  GaijinPunch  Mon Jan 31, 2005 19:22  10548
2  Ed Oscuro    Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:13  8152
3  BulletMagnet Wed Jan 26, 2005 00:05  8014
4  Rob          Tue Jan 25, 2005 20:58  6985
5  Skykid       Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:16  6884

^ Lol holy shit! :palm: I'm a fast typer and a score hunter, what can I say.

[Acid King]

No, bullshit cop out is sensible.

Bullshit cop out is bullshit by definition. Don't say hopelessly simplistic stuff about complicated topics if you don't feel like discussing them.

[GaijinPunch]

Debates on this forum tend to go on too long and round and round in circles. I'd love to talk up the virtues and foibles of the capitalistic system but I'd rather do it over a beer and face to face.

This is the only games forum I've been on, other than gamengai, where it doesn't turn into a bunch of grown men being titty babies. Ever seen a debate at Assembler or IC over the years? I could only imagine what goes on at NG.com.

[dcharlie]

or an endless stream of memes. It's all good, no one is falling out over and of the debates on this board.

So where were we....

[Skykid]

Edit: Misunderstanding

[dcharlie]

Edit: Misunderstanding 2 : Electric Boogaloo

[Skykid]

Debates on this forum tend to go on too long and round and round in circles. I'd love to talk up the virtues and foibles of the capitalistic system but I'd rather do it over a beer and face to face.

This is the only games forum I've been on, other than gamengai, where it doesn't turn into a bunch of grown men being titty babies. Ever seen a debate at Assembler or IC over the years? I could only imagine what goes on at NG.com.

I agree, that's why I enjoy butting heads here. For the most part (not always) it's worthwhile conversation even if there's rarely any ultimate agreement.

But forum debate can be frustrating too, at least for me, because when tone/sentiment/humour is misunderstood it takes a lot of effort to try to flesh out. And then there's a lot of folks who reply after skim reading only the first line of people's posts. Shit starts going in circles then.

One day I'd love to talk up capitalism and global economics with you, but it's better to end up agreeing to disagree when you're blind drunk rather than when you're stone cold sober.

[drei :3]

Touching anecdotes here about working hard and stuff, but anecdotes can't kill any claim that isn't about something having 100% or 0% probability :P

Picture a multiplayer shmup in development where players compete for who collects the most medals and each ship has a medal magnet that gets stronger by collecting medals.

Would the addition of any rubberband effect always dilute the competitive aspect of the game or isn't it rather the case that without any such mechanism a minor slip in the beginning can pretty much screw your chances to win, even against a much worse player, and henceforward result in very low incentive for both leading and tailing player to continue putting much effort into it?

It is immediately grasped that a game where each player's score grows in a similar fashion during a session and players tend to win as much as they lose, no matter who is playing against whom, isn't very competitive. If a game shows scores far apart at the end of a session and the pattern how the scores grow apart during a session always tends to look the same, no matter who is playing against whom, even when you replace players by random input, I wager that it doesn't have much to do with skill either. Again, playing several times should show the telling weak correlation between past and current success — but you don't have that info when the game doesn't reset once during your whole life; and the game goes on for several lifes and through the mechanism of wealth inheritance you are rewarded for stuff like having slaveholders in your lineage.