Sony's up to it again... (sigh)

[Super Laydock]

First of all I know all three major companies are doing this to some extend, but this message on the Lik-Sang site deals with Sony, so let's concentrate on this case alright as it could have major consequences for westerners importing stuff through Hong Kong companies..

http://www.lik-sang.com/news.php?artc=3666

If I read this post correctly the lawsuit Sony filed against Lik-Sang could possibly in the most extreme case lead to a halt all the selling of Japanese stuff through Hong Kong to western customers.

Reading the article, it sounds like Sony has little chance (unlike in simmilar cases against some UK companies selling PSP to westerners), but who knows!?

God, do I hate corporate empires abusing their position and money to screw over their customers.

[SAM]

The next step is for Sony to suit eBay for allowing their seller to sell Japanses version games and console overseas...

[marcus12024]

My problem with this garbage is that - if import purchases are hurting sales in any way, shouldn't that say something about the validity of translating these titles and releasing them in other parts of the world?

[iatneH]

It really sucks for Lik-sang that they're so well-established, so they get picked on way too much. Remember when Nintendo sued them for selling GBA flash carts? Seems like Nintendo just wanted to pick on an easy target and didn't bother going after the other hundreds of online sellers (not to mention dozens of local HK sellers and the obvious flash cart manufacturers/distributors themselves).

It will be a sad day when Lik-sang are driven out of business by (and I don't think I've ever said this until now) EVIL corporations wanting to put the blame on someone else for their own failures.

[The n00b]

Fuckin $ony. I know MS does this but $ony have always been the ones to take this crap to the max. Oh well at least they are saving the UK from buying a shoddily made game less piece of hardware.

[Specineff]

Hong Kong law is very loose when it comes to bootlegs. I doubt it will allow Sony to thwart the sale of legal imports.

[99pence]

If I can buy a fruit from the other side of the world I can buy videogames from the damn well fook I like.

I think imported fruit should be banned, it infringes copyright as it looks the same as domestic fruit.

They'll never stop it, they're just annoying their own customers.

[jp]

Its Sony...



... what did you expect?

[llabnip]

Fuckin $ony. I know MS does this but $ony have always been the ones to take this crap to the max.

Actually, Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony all filed lawsuits against Lik Sang International Limited in 2002 over mod-chip distribution. This is not the first time these corporations have done it and it won't be the last. They all do it - Sony is no exception but they are the biggest kid on the block and so get the most press. They developed the products they have the right to control distrubtion in a manner they see fit. Big successful corporations always draw the ire of some consumers... it comes with the territory.

Sega is no angel here either... though they are less lawsuit prone. Sega attempted to lock out game companies from making Genesis games unless they paid Sega a fee. They basically looked for a copyright notice in the loaded ROM or the system would not play the game. If a 3rd party company added the copyright notice (to bypass the check), Sega would sue them for trademark infringment. Sega lost this lawsuit.

Anyway, reading a story on Lik-Sang about how they are being bullied by Sony is likely to be a bit one-sided. Few people know all the facts - but I'd bet both sides have valid points (free trade vs. product distribution rights). The law generally comes down on the side of the corporations.

[jp]

Anyway, reading a story on Lik-Sang about how they are being bullied by Sony is likely to be a bit one-sided. Few people know all the facts - but I'd bet both sides have valid points (free trade vs. product distribution rights). The law generally comes down on the side of the corporations.

Like Bleem?

[llabnip]

Anyway, reading a story on Lik-Sang about how they are being bullied by Sony is likely to be a bit one-sided. Few people know all the facts - but I'd bet both sides have valid points (free trade vs. product distribution rights). The law generally comes down on the side of the corporations.

Like Bleem?

In that case, the law didn't come down on anyone's side. Sony simply had deeper pockets and the Bleemcast folks couldn't sustain the financial drain of a long lawsuit. There was no telling what would have been the eventual decision handed down by the courts (I'm guessing the Bleemcast folks would have won but that's just a guess... I would have liked to see the Bleamcast folks win it).

I'm not saying I agree with the practice and I don't want to see import sales stunted. I'm just saying that one should use caution before passing judgement. All the major console makers have had territory lockouts on most of their systems (a few rare exceptions). All have been involved in lawsuits for copyright/trademark infringement. Sony, being the biggest of them all, is always highly visible when these things hit. They may have a legitimate case - I don't know all the facts (and the lik-sang article is very one-sided). It's highly likely to be more legitimate than some of the crap Nintendo did back in the day (sued by Sega and eventually won by Sega) where they forced companies to exclusive contracts, forced retailers to put Nintendo products at a certian advantage (including shelf height, location, posters, etc) over Sega's or else they might find their Super Mario Bros. 3 shipment a bit late in arriving to the store. There is a long history of this prior to Sony - but there is every possibility that this lawsuit may have some grounding based on the rights they are entitled to for their products.

[dave4shmups]

Anyway, reading a story on Lik-Sang about how they are being bullied by Sony is likely to be a bit one-sided. Few people know all the facts - but I'd bet both sides have valid points (free trade vs. product distribution rights). The law generally comes down on the side of the corporations.

Like Bleem?

In that case, the law didn't come down on anyone's side. Sony simply had deeper pockets and the Bleemcast folks couldn't sustain the financial drain of a long lawsuit. There was no telling what would have been the eventual decision handed down by the courts (I'm guessing the Bleemcast folks would have won but that's just a guess... I would have liked to see the Bleamcast folks win it).

I'm not saying I agree with the practice and I don't want to see import sales stunted. I'm just saying that one should use caution before passing judgement. All the major console makers have had territory lockouts on most of their systems (a few rare exceptions). All have been involved in lawsuits for copyright/trademark infringement. Sony, being the biggest of them all, is always highly visible when these things hit. They may have a legitimate case - I don't know all the facts (and the lik-sang article is very one-sided). It's highly likely to be more legitimate than some of the crap Nintendo did back in the day (sued by Sega and eventually won by Sega) where they forced companies to exclusive contracts, forced retailers to put Nintendo products at a certian advantage (including shelf height, location, posters, etc) over Sega's or else they might find their Super Mario Bros. 3 shipment a bit late in arriving to the store. There is a long history of this prior to Sony - but there is every possibility that this lawsuit may have some grounding based on the rights they are entitled to for their products.

Thank you, let's quit the Sony-bashing. Nintendo was as bad or worse back in the day; at least Sony isn't trying to bully Microsoft and Nintendo out of the console business, like Nintendo tried to do with Sega.

I'm not worried about import PS1 and PS2 software or hardware sales stopping because of one store. Heck, even at the end of this press release, Lik Sang states that,

"Daily business is unaffected by this lawsuit. Customers in the UK and elsewhere don't have to worry about negative side effects or disruption of service. Shipping, Customer Support and Order Processing are fully operational and Lik-Sang.com remains open as usual."

Yes, I feel sorry for Lik-Sang, but Play-Asia has as good or better selection of import software for Sony consoles, and Lik-Sang has enough of a loyal customer base that I seriously doubt they'll go out of business. And the folks at Lik Sang should've been smart enough not to put up the text of the PSP manual on their own website.

And, IMO, there's simply no feasible way to make such a ban all-encompasing. Even if Lik-Sang, Play-Asia, and other import game stores in Hong Kong were prevented from selling import Sony Hardware and Software, there are SO many other businesses, and on-line forums, where the selling and trading of such products goes on, that there's no way Sony could stop all of it.

I do agree with 99Pence, though; there's absolutely nothing unethical about purchasing games from where one wants to purchase them from, unless they're bootlegs or some other such illegal crap.

[Specineff]

Sega is no angel here either... though they are less lawsuit prone. Sega attempted to lock out game companies from making Genesis games unless they paid Sega a fee. They basically looked for a copyright notice in the loaded ROM or the system would not play the game. If a 3rd party company added the copyright notice (to bypass the check), Sega would sue them for trademark infringment. Sega lost this lawsuit.

Actually Sega won, but settled with Accolade. And they went on to produce the worst games of their life. Funny how Star Control, Onslaught, and Turrican were better games when they worked without a license.

[neorichieb1971]

The sooner corperations realize this is a global market and the highest bidder wins irregardless of region, culture or religion.. The Better.


Regionalization is discrimination.

[ThirdStrike]

Sony Should Sue themselves for allowing Jak Of All games to release Mobile Light Force 1 and 2 with those ugly fucking covers.

For gods sake they would not allow Puyo Pop Fever and Metal Slug 3 out.

And lets not forget the Snk Vs Capcom Debacle.

[SAM]

Fuckin $ony. I know MS does this but $ony have always been the ones to take this crap to the max.

Actually, Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony all filed lawsuits against Lik Sang International Limited in 2002 over mod-chip distribution. This is not the first time these corporations have done it and it won't be the last. They all do it - Sony is no exception but they are the biggest kid on the block and so get the most press. They developed the products they have the right to control distrubtion in a manner they see fit. Big successful corporations always draw the ire of some consumers... it comes with the territory.

I think you are wrong in that case. Do you know that mod chips not only allow you to play import games, they actually allow you to play CD-R DVD-R boogle on your system.

The problem GBA Flesh is much more obvious, it allow you to play Rom images (which you may not own) that you have downloaded from the internet.

Mod Chips and Fleash cards are tools for Priacy. Lik-Sang desirve a lawsuit againest them for selling Priacy tools. But suiting Lik-Sang for selling Japanese PSP to Europe is really a bit too much.

I don't know the reason behind for putting those regional lock on the console. But the problem is they won't publish anything less than "mainsteam" overseas. Who are you Sony to decide which games the American, the European, the Asian, the Japanese (they don't get some American games either) should get and play?

In the final analysis, the actually winners are those game importers like Lik-Sang, who are selling games to overseas at a price 20% to 65% (see notes ** below)higher than that any local game store in Hong Kong. And they even dare to overcharged you in postage and then lie to you about the shipping date.

Note :-
** - MushiHime-Sama is selling at $46.45 when it first came out in store. Lik-Sang Price $60, 30% higher. And for the over 60% example, I guess you properby won't want to know... send me a PM if you do.

Meanwhile, the Hong Kong legistration is putting forward a law outlawing those who modified a console with a mod chips. The moded cosoles would soon disappeared in the product menu, or else Hong Kong Custom Officiers would show up in Lik-Sang's Headquarter.

[D]

Sony jap is envious/angry at European customers for owning SCART RGB tv's.

Importing stuff is illegal. It is not intended for use outside of Japan. Same with movie DVD's. All of us that import are criminals that should be put in jail. Even buying second hand Japanese merchandise, we are so guilty, we will burn in hell.

I feel bad for lik Sang, I like their style.

[Specineff]

Somebody should remind Sony of their own hypocrisy. Isn't false advertising also illegal? Two words for you Sony:

DAVE MANNING.


Why, it was only self promotion. It's not lying, it's simply disguising the truth in order to rack up more sales.

You do deserve the pwning Samsung and Apple are giving you. And Kutaragi deserves a vacation in a padded cell. With the placing of the window unquestioned by anyone.

/Rant.

[Acid King]

The sooner corperations realize this is a global market and the highest bidder wins irregardless of region, culture or religion.. The Better.


Regionalization is discrimination.

Word!

[gameoverDude]

Sony Should Sue themselves for allowing Jak Of All games to release Mobile Light Force 1 and 2 with those ugly fucking covers.

For gods sake they would not allow Puyo Pop Fever and Metal Slug 3 out.

And lets not forget the Snk Vs Capcom Debacle.

Yep. Unfortunately SVC ended up "Only on Xbox". While it's not The King, it'd still be nice to see released here.

Regionalization is discrimination.

Agreed.

Sony UK has everything to gain from sales of legitimate PSP domestic titles being placed into Japanese PSPs. Might they be whining about the fact that Japanese PSPs play Region 2 Movie discs?

I never wanted UMD movie capability in the PSP anyway. It is a game machine. If I want a movie, I'll put a DVD into a player hooked to a full size TV. Using a PSP to watch movies is like using your $1000 stereo for a coffee table. Same goes for using your PS2 as a dedicated DVD player IMO.

Regionalization of movies is also a terrible thing. I think game and movie publishers' foreign arms should be merely distribution houses, ala the old SNK. I have no problem with Western games being freely offered to the Japanese market. Sony should kill region lockouts on PS3, but we all know they won't.

[Thunder Force]

Play-Asia has reportedly also been told by SCEE not to allow sales of import PSP stuff to EU countries. Prior to that SCEE targetted eBay sales. They seem to be going for all the major distribution points so they can isolate PAL gamers from importing any PSP hardware or software.

There's speculation that this will be a permanent policy that might also affect PS3 imports upon release of that system.

[Vexorg]

You do deserve the pwning Samsung and Apple are giving you. And Kutaragi deserves a vacation in a padded cell. With the placing of the window unquestioned by anyone.

Based on some of Kutaragi's claims, all I know is if I see the PS3 coming out with a "Powered by Vasteel Technology" sticker on it I'm headed for the hills.

[dave4shmups]

Play-Asia has reportedly also been told by SCEE not to allow sales of import PSP stuff to EU countries. Prior to that SCEE targetted eBay sales. They seem to be going for all the major distribution points so they can isolate PAL gamers from importing any PSP hardware or software.

There's speculation that this will be a permanent policy that might also affect PS3 imports upon release of that system.

Oh man! Even though I don't live in Europe, that just makes me SAD!
Why SCEE, WHY?? Like...why does SCEE want to isolate PAL gamers, but SCEA doesn't want to isolate NTSC gamers??

Also, since the European Union is involved with imports and export standards with member nations, couldn't gamers, and import game stores in EU countries file some kind of class-action suit against SCEE, through the EU; or at least present their case to the EU?

Well, I guess one can only hope that Ebay is as stupid about spotting import games on Ebay's European site as they are about bootleg stuff on their American site.

[TWITCHDOCTOR]

My two pennies...
With stricter import laws/red tape, it will only encourage more piracy.
If you cannot "legally" buy the game, BURN BURN and BURN it again!!!!!
That sucks for those of us who dislike a bunch or blue-green CDR's in our collections, but at least we can actually play a fucking shmup!

[Specineff]

You do deserve the pwning Samsung and Apple are giving you. And Kutaragi deserves a vacation in a padded cell. With the placing of the window unquestioned by anyone.

Based on some of Kutaragi's claims, all I know is if I see the PS3 coming out with a "Powered by Vasteel Technology" sticker on it I'm headed for the hills.

HA HA HA HA HA! ROFLMAO!

That made my day.

[99pence]

Damn Sony. Damn them when they stoped and got european ebay users banned for selling NTSC Dreamcast games on ebay. Damn Sony when they put those ads in the magazines threatening gamers who imported the PC Engine and then didn't even release it anyway.

[Thunder Force]

Damn Sony. Damn them when they stoped and got european ebay users banned for selling NTSC Dreamcast games on ebay.

Sega?

[BulletMagnet]

Based on some of Kutaragi's claims, all I know is if I see the PS3 coming out with a "Powered by Vasteel Technology" sticker on it I'm headed for the hills.

Hee hee, turn it on to the load-up screen and suddenly you hear a voice; "Model A: PS2. Status: Obsolete. Model B: PS3. Status: Operational. Human/Gamer...please, listen to me."

[dave4shmups]

Seriously, though-WHY PAL countries and not NTSC?? That's just...weird! Unless SCEE does business a lot different then SCEA.

[Zach Keene]

The language barrier probably keeps the Joe GTAs of North America from importing from Japan (and importing from Europe to NA is usually pointless, and for console games adds NTSC/PAL display issues to boot.)

I could be wrong, but I'd guess that per capita there's more English-literate folk in Europe than Japanese-literate people in NA. So any time some game comes out last in Europe for whatever reason, there's little stopping the people there from just getting the NA version (or even the Japanese version if they like.) And therefore it stands to reason SCEE would be more threatened by importing than SCEA.

Or I could just be talking out of my ass.