Sticks and Shmups.

[legendnthamaking]

Question is simple. What stick do you use to play your shmups?
Sanwa or Semitsu? Mad Catz or Hori? What do you think is the best stick to use for the genre?

[whoozwah]

Seimitsu for shmups although I've heard some really good things about the suzo 500.

The manufacturer of the stick enclosure only matters as far as how easy it is to modify it afaik.

[burgerkingdiamond]

I use Seimitsu LS-32.

[Barrakketh]

Seimitsu LS-40.

[emphatic]

I use SUZO 500 with custom shaft, custom 8-way restrictor and OMRON switches and a Virtstick (best stick evah).

[ZOM]

LS-32 & OBSF-30

EDIT:

Virtstick (best stick evah).

Seen the pics on your site, looks tasty. How does it differ from the LS-32, completely different feel or just a little less "tight"?

[emphatic]

Seen the pics on your site, looks tasty. How does it differ from the LS-32, completely different feel or just a little less "tight"?

It depends on what micro switches you use with it. I have rather hard ones, and it feels tighter than an LS-32. There is hardly any dead zone, the tiny, yet annoying "wiggle room" that the Seimitsu allows without actually tilting the shaft is nowhere to be found. Perfection.

[ZOM]

Tighter than the LS-32 and deadzone kept to a minimum? Win. Do you have the parts number/make of the microswitches you're using? I'm mildly interested.

More importanty, who made that Virtstick?

[emphatic]

Tighter than the LS-32 and deadzone kept to a minimum? Win. Do you have the parts number/make of the microswitches you're using? I'm mildly interested.

More importanty, who made that Virtstick?

I got Kensington switches with the stick (as engineered by virtvic on ArcadeOtaku). I initially tried Lee switches as I didn't have a harness that would fit the Kensington blades (they are wide).

[ZOM]

Thanks for the info emph. I think the next stick I want to try is the Suzo 500.

[emphatic]

Thanks for the info emph. I think the next stick I want to try is the Suzo 500.

A nice choice. Be aware that it's kinda a bitch to mount in most arcade sticks/panels though. Also, when you pick it apart and assemble it again, the switches are loose and can get seated unevenly, making some directions hair trigger sensitive, so will need some "tweaking" to get just right.

[BulletMagnet]

I know this topic is primarily about sticks used on full-fledged cabinets, but I'll throw a console-centric query out here...I've used pads pretty much forever, but I'm trying to "get the feel" for sticks, as I know a lot of shmuppers prefer them. I finally picked up a cheap Hori EX2 for the 360 a little while back, but it doesn't feel as accurate or responsive to me as a decent pad, for either shmups or fighters. Would a different model be the way to go (not sure how well-regarded this stick is overall, and can't really compare it to much else), or should I just stick to d-pads and be done with it?

[whoozwah]

I don't know anything about that particular stick but if you feel like you play better on the pad than on the stick, use the pad!

[chempop]

Bulletmagnet, I mainly used pads for shmups for a good 20 years before switching to sticks and let me tell you, it definitely took time to get a feel for it. At first I was all over the place, it was hilarious. But I didn't give up because it was more fun using a stick. I'd say it took 6 months for it to feel like second nature and now I can easily say that it was worth it.

1CC using pad = 1(?)
1CC using stick = 20ish

About your EX2, I've heard mixed things, but then again I use assortment of sticks that vary in quality. Personally though, for 360 I wouldn't use anything outside a HRAP EX-SE, for about $100 it's godly.

[emphatic]

The only reason for learning to play with a stick if you feel that you're already in control with your pad is for those times when you go to a shmup meet or an arcade and need to show off your skills. For me it's not hard to perform on a bad/loose joystick since you can compensate, but I can't for the life of me play shmups on a pad.

[BulletMagnet]

The only reason for learning to play with a stick if you feel that you're already in control with your pad is for those times when you go to a shmup meet or an arcade and need to show off your skills.

Well, there aren't many shmeets around here (back when poor ol' bay used to try to get something going only a handful of people would ever show up) so that's not a concern, but enough people swear by a good stick to make me curious as to whether I'm missing something...of course, people swear on genuine arcade hardware too, but that's not an upgrade I can make, heh. My skills are pretty middling with the pad, though I'm definitely more comfortable with it - on the EX2 it just doesn't seem I can make movements as precisely as when I plug in my Street Fighter IV pad, even the most minute shift in the stick moves me a lot farther than a light tap on the pad. Again, I'm not sure how much of it is my lack of experience, and how much has to do with the stick itself...

[emphatic]

The only reason for learning to play with a stick if you feel that you're already in control with your pad is for those times when you go to a shmup meet or an arcade and need to show off your skills.

Well, there aren't many shmeets around here (back when poor ol' bay used to try to get something going only a handful of people would ever show up) so that's not a concern, but enough people swear by a good stick to make me curious as to whether I'm missing something...of course, people swear on genuine arcade hardware too, but that's not an upgrade I can make, heh. My skills are pretty middling with the pad, though I'm definitely more comfortable with it - on the EX2 it just doesn't seem I can make movements as precisely as when I plug in my Street Fighter IV pad, even the most minute shift in the stick moves me a lot farther than a light tap on the pad. Again, I'm not sure how much of it is my lack of experience, and how much has to do with the stick itself...

If the stock stick is anything like the stock stick in the HORI Tekken 6 stick, then I'd say the stick itself is pretty bad. With a SUZO 500, Seimitsu LS-32, LS-40, SANWA JLF etc, the stick is very precise. But sticks have the disadvantage called dead zone as well.

[man9child]

This is going to be a strange answer, but for me what I prefer depends on the game. If it's something I played an asston on a gamepad, say most everything on the Saturn, or something like R-Type or Thunderforce, I'm more comfortable with a gamepad. That might just be an issue of muscle memory.

Other than that, I find as a general matter that Cave shmups are easier for me to play on a stick, in part because of the ability to hit the A and C buttons at once. Also the manual speed control helps with whatever "slipperyness" the stick has over the pad. I'll agree that for me personally, comparing a Saturn pad to an LS-32 or LS-40, I'm able to make smaller movements with the dpad, and I feel slightly more in control. But on games where I learned to play using a stick (mostly this gen Cave titles) it feels really strange to play with a pad.

I'll just go with my first answer and say it's all about muscle memory, or what you started with first.

Also, a bad stick is just as detrimental as a bad d-pad. Difference between a seimitsu stick and a hori is like the difference between a Saturn D-pad and a 360 one.

[chempop]

A decent Hori still ain't bad imho. I think what makes the biggest difference is if you have spent enough time getting used to whatever your setup is.

I sorta agree that certain games it helps more than others, like you said, especially if you like to hold A and C down at the same time. That's a great point actually, I think the biggest overlooked aspect of using a stick isn't even the stick - it's the buttons. Using 3 buttons with 3 different fingers is going to be WAY quicker to press than moving my thumb across a pad. Maybe not the case with everyone, but certainly makes panic bombing a lot more precise and reliable for me.

Still though, it's a matter of having more fun and recreating the arcade experience - that's the main reason why I prefer sticks.

[emphatic]

Agreed on the button being the bigger disadvantage of a pad. I've seen some pads with an added button box (on shoryuken forums) and it looked very... interesting. But really, if you can't hold down A+C with easy, you're kinda fucked.

[xavierjesus]

FWIW, I can't play for shit with pads, primarily, as mentioned above, because of the buttons - seems like a lotta extra ground for your thumb to cover, with regard to multiple button combos, rather than having your index finger, middle finger etc. etc. spread out, mapped over one button to each digit - ideally around a Sega CP style layout. (Plus I ain't never used a pad with buttons as sensitive as Sanwas - almost feels like breathing on them would trigger 'em!)

Secondly, with regard to stick Vs d-pad; whether it's a Seimitsu stick or whatever, I just can't 'twitch' move as accurately with a d-pad. Always feels like my thumb lingers on the movement too long - I need to be able to make super-fine little taps on the stick, right on the micro-switch edge, to get through danmaku patterns. D-pad always feels like it's draggin' me INTO the bullets

Finally, for some purely anecdotal evidence - DL'd (finally) Futari BL last week. Yes, an easy 1cc for sure, but getting past stage 3 was completely un-doable for me with the Xbox pad. Whacked in my trusty ol' modded MC SF4 TE, and bingo, 1CC'S all round! 'Nuff said.

So, a stick, ANY stick (hell, even the DC Agetec!) for me, or else I can't play STG. End of.

[BuckoA51]

I use an X-arcade modded with Sanwa sticks and those curvy dome shaped tops (don't understand why anyone would want a ball-top stick, but I guess it takes all sorts)

[chempop]

I hate to bring this up, but I have one example that completely contradicts what I was saying earlier. One of my best shmup feats was clearing the first loop of DOJ-BL, and I used a stock 360 pad. I did map rapid C to the R trigger though which I almost always do while using a pad.

I think it was in the middle of the night when I don't like to make a ton of noise clanking a stick and wailing on buttons which is why I was using a pad, but hey, it worked! lol

[Thjodbjorn]

For A+C, I just map C to X, and A to A. Then I use the middle part of my thumb to press while I'm already holding down X with the main part of my thumb. Bomb goes to RB, and if there's a fourth button, that goes on LB.

I pretty much only use pads for Deathsmiles now, though, resting my thumb in the middle of the face buttons.

[Edwards80]

I didn't actually mind playing shmups with my 360 pad so much but after a while my hand would ache. Switched to an LS-32 stick and I cannot imagine going back to a pad again now

[Rebel Ninja]

Is the stick below any good? I prefer control pads for fighters, however I'd like to get a decent but not too expensive arcade stick for shmups.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hori-BlazBlue-C ... 065&sr=1-1

[StarCreator]

Is the stick below any good? I prefer control pads for fighters, however I'd like to get a decent but not too expensive arcade stick for shmups.

Rebranded Hori EX2. Piece of crap. Avoid.

[Rebel Ninja]

Is the stick below any good? I prefer control pads for fighters, however I'd like to get a decent but not too expensive arcade stick for shmups.

Rebranded Hori EX2. Piece of crap. Avoid.

Okay then, thanks. If I was going to go with a Hori would a "Real Arcade Pro EX" be a good choice?

[StarCreator]

Okay then, thanks. If I was going to go with a Hori would a "Real Arcade Pro EX" be a good choice?

Depends on the cost - I'd personally go for either an EX-SE (same design as the EX except it has all Seimitsu parts out of the box), or a VX (newer case design) over a vanilla EX, but if the EX is significantly less expensive than the other two options it's definitely worth a go. The vanilla EX comes with a Sanwa lever and Hori's cheap mushy buttons, but the buttons can be easily swapped out.

[Rebel Ninja]

Okay then, thanks. If I was going to go with a Hori would a "Real Arcade Pro EX" be a good choice?

Depends on the cost - I'd personally go for either an EX-SE (same design as the EX except it has all Seimitsu parts out of the box), or a VX (newer case design) over a vanilla EX, but if the EX is significantly less expensive than the other two options it's definitely worth a go. The vanilla EX comes with a Sanwa lever and Hori's cheap mushy buttons, but the buttons can be easily swapped out.

So the VX is the same as the EX-SE except for the case?