Does anyone occasionally get burned out with the STG genre?

[rancor]

This thread makes me sad. No, I don't feel this way at all and I think its because my experience is exactly as Observer put it above. I don't care for or need Hollywood cinematics or the "latest in 3d visualz!". RPGs are a "grind", RTS games take too long, FPS games are awesome, but I just don't have the time to dedicate, and I don't care much for fighters. With a wife, a full time job, and a child, my time is limited and I want to spend the most amount of time eliminating enemies and dropping bombs as I can. Not to mention that there are so many good games out there! I just got into Battle Garegga - it's kicking my ass, and I LOVE it! I don't even own a 360 yet, but when I get one there's another lifetimes worth of titles to play.
I suppose it's inevitable for people to drift in and out. I frequently browse old posts, and aside from a few names (Spadgy, GP, Rob, etc.) I really don't recognize many people that posted back even as recently as 2008-09 that still post today.

[gs68]

I remember my slump from 2006 to ~2008 when I pretty much just stopped being so passionate about shmups--I think the PS2 port of Mushihime-sama may have had something to do with it.

In fact, in 2007, I made absolutely NO posts on this forum.

[Mero]

Nah I'm not burned out yet, still playing stg's virtually every day and very little of other genres (Puzzle Bobble and Pang 3 are 2 non stg games that I've played recently, but nothing else).

If a game's really doing your head in just switch to something else, I had no qualms about shelving various J360 stg's after I got sick of them. No point torturing yourself.

I could never switch to mainstream current gen games, I wouldn't touch that kind of stuff with a bargepole

[emphatic]

Summer's coming, guys. Lot's of other activities (short skirted ones) right now.

I'm a parent, so I can't grind shmups anymore (I've really only did this when playing ESPGALUDA and Ketsui), but I only play arcade games AS INTENDED. No save states, no training modes. It feels like cheating to me and completely ruins the arcade experience.

[CptRansom]

I'm just now pulling myself out of a burnout stage. I seem to only get truly burned out when a game is kicking my ass, and then I stay in that state until I either stop getting my ass kicked (which is why I'm coming out of a burnout state right now - I'm finally figuring out Raiden 3 after a month or so of hammering away at it, getting nowhere, and nearly giving up on the shootan gaemz completely) or I finally just give up and move on.

A lot of my problem comes from my mindset though. I fixed that recently (finally - people have been trying to help me with my mindset towards STGs for a long time now, and everything they've said has FINALLY started to sink in...), and I've been enjoying these games a LOT more since I did.

I'm looking forward to summer vacation now so that I can actually have some time to pump out some (hopefully) half-decent scores!

[evil_ash_xero]

I get bored with just about everything, if I do it too much. After some tragic stuff happening a couple of months ago, I just quit playing completely. Now, i'm starting to get a bit more in the groove. But I always take breaks.

But yeah, the more you play these slow as molasses games, that are million sellers, the more you will enjoy the instant gratification of the shmup again. Or old-school games, in general.

[Weak Boson]

My interest in pretty much everything is variable. I've only been into shmups a couple of years but there have been times when I've just wanted to switch off and play an RPG or something. That's not the same as being disillusioned with genre, though. As fun as they are they can be very demanding; I often put my ambitions aside and make some time for recuperation. I definitely appreciate shmups more when I go back to them having played some other genre, though. For me while the appeal isn’t constant it is enduring.

[Thjodbjorn]

I don't get "burned out", but I do go through periods where I spend my time doing some other things or playing some other games. I don't game nearly enough to burn myself out.

[Snake]

I play shmups in concentrated bursts. If you're seriously trying to improve your score in a game the process can start to be a bit like work. When I get burnt out I leave shmups alone for a while and play something else.

Shmups really show you how easy other genres, especially major console titles are. But I also don't want to, or can't, play at my absolute limit all the time. Mainstream games are a good way to cool off.

[austere]

I hope I never get bored with STGs, that'd be too sad, but as the proverb goes, "all good things must come to an end".

I only play arcade games AS INTENDED. No save states, no training modes. It feels like cheating to me and completely ruins the arcade experience.

Amen!!!

This thread makes me sad. No, I don't feel this way at all and I think its because my experience is exactly as Observer put it above. I don't care for or need Hollywood cinematics or the "latest in 3d visualz!". RPGs are a "grind", RTS games take too long, FPS games are awesome, but I just don't have the time to dedicate, and I don't care much for fighters.

The trouble is the fun/time quotient is pretty low for many of the games they're releasing now. That is the most important measure for gamers of our age -- or any age, they just don't realise it yet! Not "valuez for monies" and whatever nonsense the game websites promote. STGs have a large fun/time quotient, that's what makes them attractive for people who value their time.

Shooters and arcade games in general are just something you would start up and play, then close and do something else. You can't really do that with RTSs (single player), CRPGs (which are essentially boring) and FPSs (single player) since they need long periods of concentration. Fighting games aren't too bad though I see how they're not for everyone, you do have to sink quite a bit of time into training yourself with each revision of new fighting games. I still like them, despite that, but I haven't been playing them much recently. Only STGs and RTSs... and a bit of FPS when my friends LAN it up, a rare occasion these days.

[Kaiser]

Summer's coming, guys. Lot's of other activities (short skirted ones) right now.

I'm a parent, so I can't grind shmups anymore (I've really only did this when playing ESPGALUDA and Ketsui), but I only play arcade games AS INTENDED. No save states, no training modes. It feels like cheating to me and completely ruins the arcade experience.

I have a question to you emphatic then, if we can't use save states or training modes, as a form of real practice, don't you think we should just credit feed and try to learn the tricks that way? I mean some games are TOO obnoxious to master at a faster rate with just one coin.

[emphatic]

I have a question to you emphatic then, if we can't use save states or training modes, as a form of real practice, don't you think we should just credit feed and try to learn the tricks that way? I mean some games are TOO obnoxious to master at a faster rate with just one coin.

Name the obnoxious games, please.

[austere]

as a form of real practice, don't you think we should just credit feed and try to learn the tricks that way?

It's really a different way of playing. It's true that credit feeding, save-stating, practice mode will allow you to improve faster if you stick with it, but for people who are into gradual improvements, the tension and excitement of the real deal, it spoils the game and turns them into a kind of work instead of play. It kills the mystique and compresses narrative, taking away from the emotional experience intended for the player.

If your goal is pure performance though, and you genuinely enjoy it, for sure credit feed/savestate to perfection. As long as you're having fun while doing it, it's not a waste of time. If you find yourself only having fun at the very end of your achievement though ... I dunno, maybe you have to think about your priorities.

I'm interested to know why emphatic has adopted his methodology anyway, it works against the tide, so to speak.

P.S. There was a thread on insomnia about this topic where Recap and Rob had a pretty interesting debate but its no longer publicly accessible.

[Siren2011]

I'm obviously not emphatic, but I nevertheless feel the need to address this point:

I mean some games are TOO obnoxious to master at a faster rate with just one coin.

It all depends on your circumstances. If you're in a hurry, credit feeding would be ideal for some. But I agree with emphatic. Credit feeding through the decent into EVAC ruined whatever thrills were left to be had from Ketsui for me.

Moreover,

if we can't use save states or training modes, as a form of real practice, don't you think we should just credit feed and try to learn the tricks that way?

all of these things except for training modes (and only for the levels you've already reached fairly) amount to the same thing: cheating. Playing these games with the one credit rule gives you more than enough practice. I know this because I played Guwange without continuing once, and it remains one of my most cherished gaming experiences to this day.

There are times when I am tired of getting my ass whooped, and I am guilty of credit feeding on more than one occasion. But that degrades the experience a great deal. If death is no longer a problem, then what fun is there to be had? It's like if everyone was immortal, no one would value life.

Players learn to play well because our brains are hard-wired to avoid dying in the game. It's the reason why our bullet-dodging reflexes exist. I have noticed that whenever I credit feed, my reflexes are dulled and the game becomes boring. The stakes must be high for any game to be exciting. That means risking losing that last life on stage 5 when you've gotten there 23 times already in one day.

I mean, sure you could credit feed. But you'd be surprised at how much you're missing out on.

[emphatic]

I'm interested to know why emphatic has adopted his methodology anyway, it works against the tide, so to speak.

I grew up playing games in the arcades. I would walk a couple of miles in the rain to play Twin Cobra with enough money in pocket for that one credit. I didn't have a lot of money to spend on anything, but it all went into being that guy with respect in the arcades. There were lot's of spoiled kids there who could credit feed through the games, but what did they get except money/time spent? I didn't have that luxury so I had to PLAY BETTER. I play modern shmups the same way. Sure, I restart a lot (on stage 1), but that's because it's FREE now, and doesn't alter the overall credit. I don't expect everyone to think I'm sane. With most modern (CAVE) shmups, scoring is key to surviving, and I really love that aspect, as it has nothing tedious about it (hey, that must be why I don't like MMP, because of the boss milking). It's the school of hard knocks I guess.

Also, I like to take risks to make things interesting. Sure the last pattern of Ketsui's 3rd boss is easy if you just follow and keep close to the blue bullets, but try skipping between them from left to right once in a while, it's fun!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzeC-MdQ ... age#t=580s

My tips on how to get better is: watch other people play. Back in the day, you would stand beside the cabinet and eyeball the other guys you used to hang out with. Sure not all of them were talents, but once in a while they would do something game breaking without them even noticing themselves. Now you can just go to YouTube and get lots of tips just like that.

[austere]

Now you can just go to YouTube and get lots of tips just like that.

Yeah totally, it's a shame low-end players like me don't post that many videos of full runs. I find them a lot more helpful than superplays and if it's someone I know, it kicks in the competitive spirit.

I guess there's no replacing arcades though, nothing can come close to that experience.

[louisg]

Now you can just go to YouTube and get lots of tips just like that.

Yeah totally, it's a shame low-end players like me don't post that many videos of full runs. I find them a lot more helpful than superplays and if it's someone I know, it kicks in the competitive spirit.

I guess there's no replacing arcades though, nothing can come close to that experience.

I'd be really interested in seeing some other people around my skill level play some of these games. I'm not great, but I can usually get to the last boss or last level if I apply myself. I'd make some vids of the games I'm OK at, but I have no capture equipment.

Maybe recording runs is something that could happen at a shmupmeet.

[emphatic]

Now you can just go to YouTube and get lots of tips just like that.

Yeah totally, it's a shame low-end players like me don't post that many videos of full runs. I find them a lot more helpful than superplays and if it's someone I know, it kicks in the competitive spirit.

I guess there's no replacing arcades though, nothing can come close to that experience.

I'd be really interested in seeing some other people around my skill level play some of these games. I'm not great, but I can usually get to the last boss or last level if I apply myself. I'd make some vids of the games I'm OK at, but I have no capture equipment.

Maybe recording runs is something that could happen at a shmupmeet.

When playing in MAME, it's very easy. But with all the weird frame rates of PCB's it's a different story. Shmupmeets are the best, but often (unless there are more of you than there are cabinets) people just pay attention to their own cabinet's action unless it's some game people hasn't played before.

[louisg]

When playing in MAME, it's very easy. But with all the weird frame rates of PCB's it's a different story. Shmupmeets are the best, but often (unless there are more of you than there are cabinets) people just pay attention to their own cabinet's action unless it's some game people hasn't played before.

Yeah, most of the games I'm OK at don't run so well in MAME. But I could probably record a MediocrePlay of GigaWing to the last level with some practice.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

On the topic of different methods of mastering the games, im starting to think that I shouldnt be grinding as much. In the past I would just pratice one stage over and over again so it wasnt my general shmupping skills, rather my memory and muscle memory. Ofc I still think praticing is usefull as an aid to commit the most major parts of each stage to memory like cheap death spots or other bits that give me alot of trouble. But not the daily 3 hour pratice sessions I would do while trying to 1CC / 1loop DDP. Instead maybe I should go back to playing full runs in rather short sessions. Hopefully I wont have any more annoying situations like I did with Mars matrix, where ild practiced every stage and could play each individual stage at a competant level. But when it came to the full runs I couldnt piece it all together.

Im curious, I know many good players recommend praticing individual stages or save state play. But how often do you pratice yourselves. Ive got a sneeky feeling that many of you guys will play almost nothing but full runs until you get that 1CC down (having fun while you do). Its only when you start playing for score where the practicing / save states is best usefull as an aid to analysing the stages in detail working out scoring routes and risk vs reward.

I think where I go wrong is that I started grinding / praticing almost day one while Im trying to get that 1CC, I might be better served working on my overall technique and focusing on weak aspects of me as a shmupper in a focused way instead of banging my head against a wall for hours on end.

[Mortificator]

I grew up playing games in the arcades. I would walk a couple of miles in the rain to play Twin Cobra with enough money in pocket for that one credit. I didn't have a lot of money to spend on anything, but it all went into being that guy with respect in the arcades. There were lot's of spoiled kids there who could credit feed through the games

... including the game's creator, who states he designed it to be cleared with multiple credits.

(to be fair, though, Uemura would have been using the version with checkpoints)

There are times when I am tired of getting my ass whooped, and I am guilty of credit feeding on more than one occasion. But that degrades the experience a great deal. If death is no longer a problem, then what fun is there to be had? It's like if everyone was immortal, no one would value life.

You're still "immortal" the way you play, as you can restart an infinite number of times. If everyone could redo their existence, would anyone value life? If you really believed your analogy, you'd only play one credit and then never again.

[Siren2011]

You're still "immortal" the way you play, as you can restart an infinite number of times. If everyone could redo their existence, would anyone value life? If you really believed your analogy, you'd only play one credit and then never again.

I stand corrected. Good point. Though I don't think anyone ever would resort to such measures, out of "love for the game".

[austere]

If you really believed your analogy, you'd only play one credit and then never again.

This is how I played Pink Sweets. But really, you're quite right that completing the game this way is the "ultimate 1CC", everything else is a different kind of simulation.

EDIT: Of course there's one step above this but it's pretty extreme.

[Special World]

I'm in a little bit of a slump myself. I blame it on these factors:

A) Too many shooters coming out means I can't spend enough time with any of them
B) DDP DFK is totally boring to me, while DFK BL is just a bit better
C) Recent oversaturation means I've been totally overexposed

I'm aiming to get back in the swing of things with Akai Katana, which just looks A+. I also have some Seimitsu parts in the mail (finally!) and I'm going to customize both of my fightsticks with some rad Futari and Ibara art.

In the meantime I'm gonna keep trucking because I'm always disappointed with big name titles these days. Every single time. I do find a number of great things on XBLA though, such as Clash of Heroes, Meat Boy, Pac Man CE DX, etc. Really, I can't be assed to play story driven games anymore. I don't think they're bad (mostly anyhow), it's just that there's too much foreplay when I could just jump right into a great scrolling shooter, platformer, puzzler, etc.

[chempop]

I usually only play a credit or two before work, and on the weekends. Very rarely do I feel burnt out, and I have many other recreational outlets and artwork to keep me busy until I get the urge to play again. Sure, a few weeks might pass without playing much, but I still look forward to new releases, high score boards, finding good deals on classics and whatnot. I don't play anything but shmups so my gaming hobby is completely focussed.

Sure the last pattern of Ketsui's 3rd boss is easy if you just follow and keep close to the blue bullets

I just figured this out on my own today!!!!
See this is why I don't study superplays, because knowing how to dodge that crap would have been boring, I can't tell you how I used to nearly have a heart attack trying to evade that pattern!!!
Figuring it out was like finding a piece to a puzzle that allows you to connect large sections together, I love it.

[Deca]

I tend to go through cycles with my interests, gaming wise the shifts are primarily between bemani and shooters. I'll play one to great excess until I burn out and then swing over to the other and do the same. It used to bother me, noticing I'd lost interest in something I had put so much time and effort into and enjoyed so much, but after a while I came to realize that the interest always comes back.

Despite all this, I currently seem to be in some weird middle ground at the moment. Been cracking away at Raizing games and getting back into the habit of playing ITG regularly, will be back on 2dx as well once I work out a decent setup somewhere in the new house.

I do have to say that I've definitely burned out on Cave games, the initial attraction is gone. They all feel so samey even when they're radically different...the only one I really find myself wanting to play anymore is Futari, and even then I'd rather play Garegga or Batrider.

[Kollision]

I think variety is important. Sticking to the same style will eventually wear you out, that's why I'm always alternating hard shmups with easier ones. This helps to keep me in high spirits if that particular game is kicking my ass hard.

Having other interests, not only in gaming, is also of great importance to avoid burnouts. I'm a movie buff, so if I'm not in the mood to play I can always spend time watching classic 70's horror flicks. Chatting with friends, meeting different people with different interests, going on small trips to different places, Marvel comic books, etc. I love this shit.

[dunpeal2064]

Thats funny it was while playing MM where I started to burn myself out. Its all Robs fault!

Mars Matrix cuts down the weak.

I've been enjoying older shooters lately: single screen, 80s Toaplan, etc. The old stuff gets the basics of the genre right. Cave games do not - they're not exciting pick up and play types of games. They will wear you down like grind-heavy RPGs.

Hell yeah, Cave shmups and grind heavy rpgs kick ass.

My gf plays mushi once a day at the most, and does not watch superplays or anything, and still progresses and loves the game. Some people aren't always looking at endgame, and just enjoy great music, bullet patterns that are meant to be dodged through, and a fun and easy to pick up scoring system

Cave > Takumi

[Siren2011]

Of course there's one step above this but it's pretty extreme.

What step would that be? Losing one life and ceasing to play again forever? lol. I doubt even the great icycalm himself (or Recap) would follow such a rule. But you're right, it is pretty damn extreme.

[Icarus]

Having other interests, not only in gaming, is also of great importance to avoid burnouts.

This is how I avoid burnouts.
Art, design, music, movies, socialising, sport, travel, etc usually come first, but I play a little when I have nothing important I need to do.