Sorrowsong - An in-development 2.5D entry-level Shmup

[snobaste]

Sorrowsong is a currently in-development vertical shmup meant as an intro to shmups and bullet hells as a genre, with difficulty easier than most bullet hells (Touhou, etc.) while still being hard enough that the user doesn't feel cheated. Sorrowsong is expected to release in Summer 2011.

More info about the game can be found here.

Screenshots:











Gameplay Trailer

[Udderdude]

First thing I notice immediately is that the backgrounds are really bright. Almost as bright as the bullets. That's not a good thing, you really need to tone down the background brightness.

[ShmupSamurai]

AUGGGGGH! I've been blinded!

Seriously, if your bullets are going to be THAT bright, darken the background...A LOT.

PRO TIP- If you're going to use a health bar, please look up the Common Mistakes topic first. Avoid making the same flaws often noted in euroshumps with healthbars.

Maybe you should tone down the lighting effects on the bullets as well(not as much a the backdrops), because just looking at them for 2 minutes seems to give me eye strain...

Also, Tohou wanabe...

[snobaste]

Thanks for the feedback guys!

After looking at it again, I definitely agree that the backgrounds are too bright. I'm currently in the process of darkening them so the bullets are more distinguishable.

@ShmupSamurai - I read the section on health bars, but feel that having one in this game is justified. For any good player of bullet hells, playing through with 1 health would be relatively easy (there are no impossible to dodge patterns), but since this game aims more for the beginner having a health buffer instead of a frustrating instant-death seems to be the right thing to do.

[ShmupSamurai]

There's nothing actually wrong with using a healthbar, just so long that you don't fall into that same pit that ametuars commonly tend to stumble into. Kamui and Guwange are good examples of shmups that do lifebars properly.

Good luck on Sorrowsong, don't stress, and most importantly, have fun making your game.

[Udderdude]

There should still be some sort of bonus for health remaining at the end of each stage to promote not getting hit.

[worstplayer]

This looks really good.
It probably looks confusing due to the way the video is edited. Do you have a longer gameplay segment without cuts?

[BPzeBanshee]

Agreeing with all of the sentiments of this thread. Some of the stages need a little tweaking in brightness for best bullet visibility, and I noticed only the 'Fire' type was used so I'm curious to see how the 'Water' type works.

I dont really get the whole "OMGAWESOMEspells and Touhou style being a good introduction to shmups" thing but if it gets you players and does its job, win win.

I'll also state the obvious and warn you now - blaring gameplay issues are going to be seriously frowned upon here especially if its a direct result of cloning Touhou ie. annoying voices and dull patterns and useless features. So far the game appears to be doing well in not having these things. I'm also a little worried about having 12 levels though that will surely be decided when the game gets released.

This isn't really an absolute necessity but some features I'd like to see in this when it comes out *if its not implemented already, also stating obvious here*:
- framerate display option to check performance
- option to toggle removal of "motion blur, and alpha-blended particle effects" and other aesthetic junk in favour of performance
- TATE (at 90, 180 and 270 degrees to accomodate possible flipped or otherwise rotated screen displays)
- joystick and gamepad support with mappable buttons

I must also second Guwange as a source of inspiration to investigate when you get down to tweaking your healthbar-related balancing. There's a certain balance that you're going to have to hit right on the spot for the health buffer idea to be of any success, so that it promotes survival and NOT getting hit but also not completely whacking a brick across your face when you do.

This is all the criticism I can think of at this time. Don't be discouraged, there's already a lot of hurdles that you've overcome and what I've mentioned here is simple little tweaks and additions that are sure to be beneficial to Sorrowsong if implemented correctly. Good luck on the project.

[snobaste]

It probably looks confusing due to the way the video is edited. Do you have a longer gameplay segment without cuts?

I don't have one at the moment, but I'm planning on recording a 5-minute or so gameplay video soon.

- framerate display option to check performance

Already in place

- option to toggle removal of "motion blur, and alpha-blended particle effects" and other aesthetic junk in favour of performance

Have this too

- TATE (at 90, 180 and 270 degrees to accomodate possible flipped or otherwise rotated screen displays)

That's quite a good idea. I'll look into it!

- joystick and gamepad support with mappable buttons

I have this as well

Again, thanks for the input everyone! Anything to make this game a worthy shmup

[BPzeBanshee]

Excellent stuff indeed snobaste.

When things get more stable internally I'll be interested to know what version of OpenGL you guys are running as well as optimal system requirements. TF4R failed real badly in regards to support for older computers partially due to its lack of optimisation within Java and the OpenGL version exclusivity, I doubt it'll happen to you but I'd hate to see this go under the same trap.

[drei :3]

Agreeing with all of the sentiments of this thread.

I found your agreement agreeable.

Regarding health bars, here's a quote from one of the most brilliant people I know:

It makes the game feel imprecise when something as basic as whether getting hit by a certain attack will make you blow up isn't immediately clear to the player.
(...)
A fix that might actually work and is very easy to implement is to give the player a short time of invincibility after the energy bar is fully depleted. After that, anything is deadly.

Also, estimating quantities with a split-second glance is easier with circles or at least segmented bars than with smooth bars.

I hope you don't plan to have a lot of variety in how much damage different enemy projectiles do, I would find that very confusing. I'd rather have a clear system where most enemy shots eat the same amount of health and there's a unique-looking type that empties your health without killing you. Or something like that, definitely not more than 3 types of damage.

[Blackbird]

I would spend time making the backgrounds look more original.

For example, I can tell that you used the "clouds" filter in Photoshop (or something to it) to generate the backgrounds in the first two screenshots.

By contrast, Touhou, while still being extremely minimalist regarding backgrounds, presents the illusion of a phantasmal setting by including trees, strange hallways, waterfalls, and the like.

Edit: Should have watched the trailer first. This looks sooo much better when it's actually moving. I take back what I said above - it was just those particular screenshots that don't sell your game well. The backgrounds still look a little spare, but the textures don't look as simple while they are in motion.

You really are wearing your Touhou influences on your sleeve though. I'm pretty sure the music in the trailer is even a Touhou remix (I could be wrong though >_<). Is the ingame music going to be like that? I mean, if you're cool that your influences are on your sleeve, then that's fine, I'm just saying.

I'll add that I agree with the concern about the backgrounds being too bright, but I will refrain from further criticism until I have actually played the game.

[BPzeBanshee]

@BlackBird
It is indeed a Touhou OCRemix in his video and it's listed as such in its description.

Well said point nonetheless.

[Sumez]

There should still be some sort of bonus for health remaining at the end of each stage to promote not getting hit.

Or more importantly, severe punishment for getting hit. I have no idea what kind of scoring system you're using for this game, but breaking combos and cutting multipliers in half seems to be the tested and tried way to go).

[snobaste]

You really are wearing your Touhou influences on your sleeve though. I'm pretty sure the music in the trailer is even a Touhou remix (I could be wrong though >_<). Is the ingame music going to be like that? I mean, if you're cool that your influences are on your sleeve, then that's fine, I'm just saying.

I'll add that I agree with the concern about the backgrounds being too bright, but I will refrain from further criticism until I have actually played the game.

Yes, the trailer music is a Touhou OCRemix. It wasn't a blatant tie to the fact that my game is Touhou-inspired, I just found it a very fitting song for the trailer. While all the music in the game is comprised of OCRemixes, there are no Touhou remixes in the actual game.

I'm also not really trying to hide the fact that the main inspiration of Sorrowsong is, indeed, Touhou. However, I've tried to add my own flair to the game along with implementing ZUN's famous elements.

When things get more stable internally I'll be interested to know what version of OpenGL you guys are running as well as optimal system requirements. TF4R failed real badly in regards to support for older computers partially due to its lack of optimisation within Java and the OpenGL version exclusivity, I doubt it'll happen to you but I'd hate to see this go under the same trap.

The game runs in native OpenGL 3.0 (for the more visual features, such as alpha-blended particle effects, a FrameBuffer Object is needed). However, on startup the game detects the current OpenGL version and will automatically disable any extra visual features if an older version of OpenGL is detected.

Also, estimating quantities with a split-second glance is easier with circles or at least segmented bars than with smooth bars.

I hope you don't plan to have a lot of variety in how much damage different enemy projectiles do, I would find that very confusing. I'd rather have a clear system where most enemy shots eat the same amount of health and there's a unique-looking type that empties your health without killing you. Or something like that, definitely not more than 3 types of damage.

That sounds like a good idea! I'll look into making the system a little less esoteric than just a smooth health bar.

[Blackbird]

There's nothing wrong with looking to Touhou for inspiration, but don't forget to look elsewhere, too! There are lots of other good games/designers besides ZUN to draw ideas from.

That sounds like a good idea! I'll look into making the system a little less esoteric than just a smooth health bar.

For the purposes of providing better critical feedback to you, what was your reasoning for including a hit point bar, anyway?

I guess I have a bit of a beef with hit point bars (particularly ones that don't tell you how many hit points you have) in that they often obfuscate how many hits you can actually take. Never forget that hit points are really just an abstraction of this point.

You can have a character with 50 hit points taking 10 damage per hit. He dies in 5 hits.
A different character has 5,000,000 hit points and takes 1,000,000 damage per hit. He dies in 5 hits - the same number.

My point being that the hit points themselves don't mean anything - the only relevant number is how many hits you can take before dying.

To that end, I like systems like "You can take 2 hits, and on the third, you die" because they are completely transparent to the player. You know exactly how long you can live, how much risk you incur, and how screwed you are. Ah, getting off on a tangent now =P.

Edit: Come to think of it, I don't see any lives/bombs on the UI. Am I correct in assuming that health/mana are replacements for player stock/bomb count?

If that is their intended function, then I would definitely convert them into discrete units.

[xnovocaine]

Any news when this game will be released? Looks epic in my opinion. Can't wait, though the backgrounds could definitely be darkened like many others said. Other than that I love the overall look of the game. Reminds me a lot of Touhou.