Osama Bin Laden is dead

[adversity1]

Le double post

[antron]

seriously "if" i was a patriotic american solider and shot obama i woudn't even crack a smile.If he deserved to die is besides the point.His death has/will acheive nothing but a false sense of victory and a swelling of national pride.

call the secret police!

[burgerkingdiamond]

seriously "if" i was a patriotic american solider and shot obama i woudn't even crack a smile.If he deserved to die is besides the point.His death has/will acheive nothing but a false sense of victory and a swelling of national pride.

I agree that it hasn't probably accomplished much.

But the fact remains that he was a bad, bad guy who deserved to die for the things that he did in his life. He got what was coming to him, and if that makes people happy enough to go out and celebrate then fine.

[Skykid]

Is this enough to convince you that Al-Queda was responsible for 9-11?

responsible? we were just trying to convince him that they took credit for it (which is obvious).

Does that mean to say you don't know if they are responsible?

I'm almost 100% convinced Al-quaeda took credit for the attacks, which means that I'd most likely be swayed toward them also being responsible. That said the chain of events that lead up to the attacks and those afterward (such as adverse's recent links) wouldn't be the reason for that swaying.
The capture of al-shibh after the interview is not necessarily directly related to the interview, its conjecture.

The US has the most powerful military in the world, for them to apprehend such individuals at an opportune time is of no surprise to me. Taking 11 years to apprehend Bin Laden however, is almost beyond belief.

actually, the point was just to show that he is unreasonable.

It's unreasonable for you to suggest I'm unreasonable because I don't trust the US government or equally powerful media news corporations to tell the truth. I would say you're unreasonable for having an unwillingness to entertain possibilities outside the realm of the mainstream obvious.

He deserved to die. I dont see a problem celebrating it.

If I was an American rather than a holder of US citizenship, I would want to see that head on a plate before I started running drunkenly through the streets, pulling my pants down and throwing beer over everyone in the name of patriotism and mythical freedom. Then again it probably helps to abate the fact you're getting your economic ass handed to you by a bunch of commies.

[charlie chong]

bwaha aha

OOPZ DIDD I MAKE MYSELF LOOK DUM AGAINZ

NO CHANCE OF NINJA 3DIT

[burgerkingdiamond]

@SK

I personally have better things to do, so you're not gonna find me out celebrating. And I do want to see some proof as well.

[charlie chong]

3,000 American dead on 9/11, countless more in the Middle East, up to half a million Muslims dead in Iraq and Afghanistan and 10 years trying to find Bin Laden, pray let us have no more "resounding triumphs".

[antron]

I'm yet to see any concrete evidence of Bin Laden claiming responsibility in the eleven years since the attacks, so you could say I remain unsatisfied on the subject.

I'm almost 100% convinced Al-quaeda took credit for the attacks, which means that I'd most likely be swayed toward them also being responsible.

Does that mean to say you don't know if they are responsible?

I don't know anything for sure. But chances look pretty good that they are. Pretty good as in I'd bet my total worth on it.

[Specineff]

The alternative is to believe that the "actual" intellectual author of the terrorist attacks is still at large, and planning his next move, partially hidden from the shadows, anime-style.

What sounds less plausible, dare I ask?

[Acid King]

It's unreasonable for you to suggest I'm unreasonable because I don't trust the US government or equally powerful media news corporations to tell the truth. I would say you're unreasonable for having an unwillingness to entertain possibilities outside the realm of the mainstream obvious.

In order to entertain alternate possibilities, you have to have some justification to believe they could be true besides trite assertions about how you don't trust corporate media and the government. In other words, you need evidence. The question then becomes what, besides conjecture, makes you believe they are lying in this instance?

[Arasoi]

Hey cool, they got him..

Lol @ the same old American bullshit. Keep living the dream folks.

You and everyone else with an IQ over fifty.

If I was an American rather than a holder of US citizenship, I would want to see that head on a plate before I started running drunkenly through the streets, pulling my pants down and throwing beer over everyone in the name of patriotism and mythical freedom. Then again it probably helps to abate the fact you're getting your economic ass handed to you by a bunch of commies.

[Skykid]

I'm yet to see any concrete evidence of Bin Laden claiming responsibility in the eleven years since the attacks, so you could say I remain unsatisfied on the subject.

I'm almost 100% convinced Al-quaeda took credit for the attacks, which means that I'd most likely be swayed toward them also being responsible.

Why quote this? Bin Laden and Al Qaeda can be viewed as separate entities, I just said I hadn't seen Bin Laden claiming responsibility. All instances of his claiming responsibility are highly dubious, including the footage of his cave party (does that look like him to you?)
Collected information uses often overlooked but important words to describe his ownership of the attacks such as "purported". It's also important to remember it swings both ways, as more than one letter was received at Al Jazeera after the attacks, supposedly from Bin Laden, stating that he claimed no responsbility for 911:

"I stress that I have not carried out this act, which appears to have been carried out by individuals with their own motivation."

See here for a collection of all Bin Laden statements made after 911.

In order to entertain alternate possibilities, you have to have some justification to believe they could be true besides trite assertions about how you don't trust corporate media and the government. In other words, you need evidence. The question then becomes what, besides conjecture, makes you believe they are lying in this instance?

The justification is historical. As I mentioned earlier, governments (especially the US) has a terrible track record when it comes to truth, from Nixon to Reagan funding the Contras to the Bay of Pigs and everything else in between. There are plenty of factual accounts of government deception (rather than conspiracy fuel) that would make any upstanding citizen wary if only they could get that stupid flag out of their face. Why now are they suddenly whiter that white in your eyes?

You honestly believe you've been given the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god, yet you still wait patiently for some footage of Bin Laden's dead mush to make it to your TV screen nearly five days since his death?

You're a man of impressive faith.

[ryu]

some people have been speculating that they might not have released any footage yet, as not to piss off osama's followers any more.

i think that sounds reasonable.

[Zeron]

For your information guys Al Qaeda is not a centralised organisation its a loose group made of different terrorist organisations.

[Acid King]

The justification is historical.

In other words, you have no evidence. I never said they were whiter than white or that they have never lied, so don't try to put words in my mouth. Saying they've lied before isn't evidence of anything but past lies which relates to credibility. It means they are more likely to lie, not that every statement is a lie. Regardless of credibility, you need evidence that contradicts their story and you have fuck all to base your assertions that they are lying in this instance. Show me something that undermines the story they're provided and if you can't provide that then please, shut the fuck up.

[Never_Scurred]

I'm yet to see any concrete evidence of Bin Laden claiming responsibility in the eleven years since the attacks, so you could say I remain unsatisfied on the subject.

Evidence of responsibility? Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnn. Y'all takin this shit way to seriously.
Osama's dead, fuck it, we over here crankin' dat robocop.....YUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

am i the only one disgusted at americans partying about this?
just cos osama's dead doesn't bring back any of the dead people who died in 9/11 or the people who have died since including your own soldiers.hardly a cause for celebration ! you do realize how disrespectful of the dead you are being by whooping it up?

Youre not the only one, I know Americans have a need to shout USA! USA! every chance they get but I too felt disgusted seeing those pictures of ppl partying, as on top of moral reasons its something I felt made us better then them. Oh well, atleast there was no flag burning and corpse parading.

As for me since I live in a town thats half muslim and the area where the most of the London bombers came from, Ill be keeping my mouth shut in public for fear of been turned into a kabab. Ive also told my OAP mum to keep stum aswell since shes at that age where she doesnt give a damn what she says to ppl and loves having heated discussions with the muslims. She's already been party to someone kicking off in the news agents due to seeing what was on the 1st page of the papers

[Skykid]

The justification is historical.

In other words, you have no evidence. I never said they were whiter than white or that they have never lied, so don't try to put words in my mouth. Saying they've lied before isn't evidence of anything but past lies which relates to credibility. It means they are more likely to lie, not that every statement is a lie. Regardless of credibility, you need evidence that contradicts their story and you have fuck all to base your assertions that they are lying in this instance. Show me something that undermines the story they're provided and if you can't provide that then please, shut the fuck up.

Oh what is this with the swearing now? Why can't you just keep it civilised?

Consider the questions rhetorical, not as an intention to put words in your mouth. I'm not trying to dampen your national pride, I'm just wondering why no-one wants to ask any questions.

I don't have evidence to the contrary. I didn't ever assert this.

(SNIP: Actually can't be bothered)

(SNIP: Too much conflict)

In the meantime I'm going to chill and look forward to the footage.

[Elixir]

Why can't you just keep it civilised?

Good idea. Stop posting.

[Never_Scurred]

What I don't get, is the whole "what are you americans celebrating for?" moral complex some of you have.
Irregardless of what most of you think of us across the drink, what makes any of you any more morally righteous than the next man to judge someone finally achieving closure after years of public and private grieving? C'mon now. Of course the dead are dead and they're not coming back, that isn't the point.

[Never_Scurred]

Why can't you just keep it civilised?

Good idea. Stop posting.

Damn.
Shots Fired.

[Skykid]

Why can't you just keep it civilised?

Good idea. Stop posting.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

What I don't get, is the whole "what are you americans celebrating for?" moral complex some of you have.
Irregardless of what most of you think of us across the drink, what makes any of you any more morally righteous than the next man to judge someone finally achieving closure after years of public and private grieving? C'mon now. Of course the dead are dead and they're not coming back, that isn't the point.

Its about maintaing the common decency & respect for other ppl even those who are your enemy and wouldnt piss on you if you were on fire. Its partly this kind of bravado that so many ppl in the world hate USA (which Ill state for the record im not one of them).

This isnt some xbox vs ps3 fanboy shit, real people across the world will be affected because of those pictures of Americans partying and lives will be lost.

[Never_Scurred]

What I don't get, is the whole "what are you americans celebrating for?" moral complex some of you have.
Irregardless of what most of you think of us across the drink, what makes any of you any more morally righteous than the next man to judge someone finally achieving closure after years of public and private grieving? C'mon now. Of course the dead are dead and they're not coming back, that isn't the point.

Its about maintaing the common decency & respect for other ppl even those who are your enemy and wouldnt piss on you if you were on fire. Its partly this kind of bravado that so many ppl in the world hate USA (which Ill state for the record im not one of them).

This isnt some xbox vs ps3 fanboy shit, real people across the world will be affected because of those pictures of Americans partying and lives will be lost.

I don't see any bravado here.
I see people at ground zero holding vigils and celebrating in the name of justice (finally) being served.
And like I said before, its not like the Al-Queda/Taliban/Whoever has some secret Neo-Osama Voltron death machine somewhere (though, in a weird way that would rock) ready to avenge Bin Laden so i'm sure we're prepared for whatever retribution, retaliation, and getback that will come as a result of this (if ever).
Anyways, telling americans to calm the fuck down and show some respect for a bunch of bearded weirdos who thought it would be a swell idea to shove a couple of passenger jets up our asses in the morning because its the "moral thing to do" is a pretty fucked up position to take, and i'm being serious here-no gifs. Maybe not waking up to a bazillion news bulletins about planes hitting buildings would allow someone to take the stance of "please have some class", but, c'mon now man. Its not the people who "wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire" that we even consider to be our enemies from what i'm seeing, so why shit on people finally getting a resolution to their grief after 10 plus years of taunting? Show some respect and let people heal in their own way, even if that healing means throwing beach balls and taking the week off from work to blow some good kush and Guinness Extra Stout

[neorichieb1971]

I don't give a shit about morals. Except when I believe there is a small chance I feel Americans are being misled. That drives me ape shit.

Obama didn't even make a national holiday out of it. You got Independence day, but you could of had justice day too. You poor freedom fighters don't get many holidays, I feel sorry for you all.

[DragonInstall]

Sometimes I don't get the mind set of you people. Why do so many of you hate America? Especially the people in the UK.

[Snake]

Sometimes I don't get the mind set of you people. Why do so many of you hate America? Especially the people in the UK.

Think of it like a romantic comedy. When the two guys are chasing the girl do you root for the rich jerk or the goofy protagonist?

[Never_Scurred]

I don't give a shit about morals. Except when I believe there is a small chance I feel Americans are being misled. That drives me ape shit.
Obama didn't even make a national holiday out of it. You got Independence day, but you could of had justice day too. You poor freedom fighters don't get many holidays, I feel sorry for you all.

Word?
Sorry, but I can't take anyone seriously who's country prior to this weekend was content with forcefeeding the rest of the world this...

...as if it was actually newsworthy.

[neorichieb1971]

My son is American, its not a hate thing. America does a lot right, but not often the right way or for the right reasons. I could argue just as many points against the UK government. But unfortunately our government doesn't have as high profile as yours. Everything that has happened to the USA in the past 20 years that is bad, is because of hate/jealousy or revenge. I can assure you none of it came from the UK. Think of it like your little brother giving the bigger brother some advice. As far as the UK is concerned, we watch the US do a lot of shit from here. We admire you (most of the time) but not for one second are we clouded by American patriotism and sometimes that gives us a clearer head to see things in a way you can't. From my own perspective I often wonder why the US can't leave Israel/Iraq and Afghanistan alone. So what if they kill each other, they have done that for 2000 years. By joining a fight, you invite the war.. America just does it because they feel they can win it.. and they usually do.. But its the poor people of 911 that got the death penalty, not some big high browed politician sitting in the white house.

OBL probably didn't want a war, in a parallel universe he is probably living a respectful life in his own religion. The only difference is that in that universe, the USA left his people and beliefs alone. We all live by the rules of our country and traditions. Sure some of them are evil and screwed up, but by challenging them the evil is aimed at you instead. I am just glad that I can have an opinion on such matters and it not affect me. I try to steer clear of the news as much as humanely possible, just so that I can be ignorant to most of the shit going on in this world. I just want peace and would feel much happier if America created less news. I fear reprisals, and I fear even more what America will do after a reprisal. Again, I will spectate and judge.. But I don't like seeing it period.

[louisg]

Osama probably wouldn't have been peaceful in another world; he is too much of a religious zealot, though the point that the US's role as occupiers inspires terrorism is taken. Anyway, celebrating death doesn't show very much class. And anyone expecting this to somehow be the end of middle-eastern terrorism will probably be very disappointed.