Osama Bin Laden is dead

[DragonInstall]

I always know to come here for ridiculous theories. He's dead, Navy Seals don't fuck around. I only wish they drug his corpse through the streets, and mounted his head on a pike on the White House lawn.

Well shmups players in general are notorious for having the biggest egos on the internet. It's no surprise a forum like this would have some interesting ideas to say the least.

[Skykid]

I always know to come here for ridiculous theories. He's dead, Navy Seals don't fuck around. I only wish they drug his corpse through the streets, and mounted his head on a pike on the White House lawn.

You ain't the only one.

Do you think bin Laden and al Qaeda ultimatly claimed responsibility for the US 2001 attacks or not. It's a very simple question.

I'm yet to see any concrete evidence of Bin Laden claiming responsibility in the eleven years since the attacks, so you could say I remain unsatisfied on the subject. I don't "believe" it either way, as it's neither been proven nor disproven, which is quite a quandry when someone is urging you to throw in with one group or another.

[szycag]

Good job JSOC, but what really matters is what happens next. I'll celebrate if it means we're scaling back the war effort and TSA steps the fuck off with this x-ray bullshit. Otherwise it's just eye for an eye.

"Do not gloat when your enemy falls; when he stumbles, do not let your heart rejoice."

[dcharlie]

I'm yet to see any concrete evidence of Bin Laden claiming responsibility in the eleven years since the attacks, so you could say I remain unsatisfied on the subject. I don't "believe" it either way, as it's neither been proven nor disproven, which is quite a quandry when someone is urging you to throw in with one group or another.

who do you think was responsible then? Or is a straight up "don't know" (which is more than fine with me - people don't -have- to given an opinion of they aren't sure on the subject)

[Barrakketh]

I'm yet to see any concrete evidence of Bin Laden claiming responsibility in the eleven years since the attacks, so you could say I remain unsatisfied on the subject. I don't "believe" it either way, as it's neither been proven nor disproven, which is quite a quandry when someone is urging you to throw in with one group or another.

What do you consider concrete evidence?

[Udderdude]

You really believe those fake-as-fuck Bin Laden videos? You win some sort of award for gullibility.

[adversity1]

are you suggesting that bin Laden and al Qaeda didn't actually ultimatly claim responsibility for the US 2001 attacks? if not, then what are you saying. I get the fealing that you really don't believe anything because you are too afraid of ever being wrong. You just sick you head in the sands of questions, and ridicule others for sticking their heads in the sands of wrong answers.

Proof. Point me to it.

Thanks in advance.

Again, the lazy approach of a conspiracy theorist. You make other people look shit up for you otherwise you choose not to believe.

No one who has read a book about 9/11 cannot be familiar with the interview of Khalid Sheikh Muhammed by Yosri Fouda of Al-Jazeera, who was the only person to ever get to interview the guilty parties before they were apprehended. This is one link among hundreds that describes the interview:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/ma ... .terrorism

Read that and tell me Al-Queda never admitted to planning and executing 9/11.

Summoning every thread of experience and courage, I looked Khalid in the eye and asked: "Did you do it?" The reference to September 11 was implicit. Khalid responded with little fanfare: "I am the head of the al-Qaida military committee," he began, "and Ramzi is the coordinator of the Holy Tuesday operation. And yes, we did it."

[Kakizaki]

I have this sneaking suspicion that a few of you that are suspicious over the lack of proof provided by the U.S. in this situation would have been even more critical had the United States televised some sort of immediate conformation - claiming that we were creating some sort of gruesome spectacle of it all. Nothing wrong with being critical, but some are always looking for an opening to spout the same old bs. Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

[Barrakketh]

You really believe those fake-as-fuck Bin Laden videos?

I take it that you're a trained expert capable of verifying the authenticity of the video in question?

Do you also think I'm gullible for believing in the authenticity of Obama's "fake as fuck" birth certificate?

[GaijinPunch]

Could this all be one huge international conspiracy cutting across parties and nations, where everyone is in cahoots with each other creating the eternal conflicts depicted in 1984? Possibly, but there would have to be incredible secrecy, trust, and coordination, the likes of which we've never seen before.

This comes full circle to my statement I made to Skykid about conspiracy theories giving far more credit to the government than they could ever deserve.

[DragonInstall]

I have this sneaking suspicion that a few of you that are suspicious over the lack of proof provided by the U.S. in this situation would have been even more critical had the United States televised some sort of immediate conformation - claiming that we were creating some sort of gruesome spectacle of it all. Nothing wrong with being critical, but some are always looking for an opening to spout the same old bs. Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

I've noticed this as well. Usually it's the people not from America that are like that.

[Stormwatch]

2ch reaction:

USA! USA!

USB! USB!

IEEE1394! IEEE1394!

[Jeneki]

I love it when people completely ignore the drama and continue to post puns.

[neorichieb1971]

Going back to believing what is said. This is the country that said Iraq had WMD's. This is the country that showed live footage of flight 93's crash site "live" never to show it again. This is the country that had a plane crash in the Pentagon without so much as a wing hole in the building and just so happened to turn its CCTV off during that time and produce no more than 1 or 2 eye witnesses.

If there is a conspiracy theory, my bet is that the USA will invent a new face of terror now. They won't let you believe the terror is gone. Certainly OPEC won't. Perhaps Gadaffi has already taken that privileged position.

What the people of the USA really lack is people that are qualified at ASKING THE RIGHT QUESTIONS! It seems there always little proof that nobody can state facts. Which is what we have here and what we had in the past. When the opportunity presents itself to put minds to rest, it doesn't happen. That leaves me to believe at least one aspect of what is said, simply isn't true. Even if the other 90% is.

[GaijinPunch]

Going back to believing what is said. This is the country that said Iraq had WMD's. This is the country that showed live footage of flight 93's crash site "live" never to show it again. This is the country that had a plane crash in the Pentagon without so much as a wing hole in the building and just so happened to turn its CCTV off during that time and produce no more than 1 or 2 eye witnesses.

This is the country who couldn't keep the President getting a head pop a secret.

[Jockel]

Going back to believing what is said. This is the country that said Iraq had WMD's. This is the country that showed live footage of flight 93's crash site "live" never to show it again. This is the country that had a plane crash in the Pentagon without so much as a wing hole in the building and just so happened to turn its CCTV off during that time and produce no more than 1 or 2 eye witnesses.

This is the country who couldn't keep the President getting a head pop a secret.

something something magic bullet something

[e_tank]

i'm glad this happened when it did, with the media now focused on this 24x7 i won't have to hear about the fucking royal wedding every time i turn on the tv

[Skykid]

I'm not a conspiracy theorist.

I'm not a patriot.

I like to see proof, that doesn't make me lazy.

I don't believe everything I'm told just because.

Ignorance isn't bliss.

Not sharing your opinion doesn't make me a kook.

I'm distrustful of government because they regularly sell lies to substantiate their actions.

I'm happy that you're happy that the invisible man is dead. Now I'd like to see some footage and non-faked photos of the bearded felon.

After an eleven year manhunt, that's really the least we could hope for.

[BPzeBanshee]

i'm glad this happened when it did, with the media now focused on this 24x7 i won't have to hear about the fucking royal wedding every time i turn on the tv

+1

[dcharlie]

sorry. ignore.

[adversity1]

I like to see proof, that doesn't make me lazy.

I called you lazy because in this instance you did not seek truth, but expected it to be handed to you. We're ten years from 9/11 and you asked (on the shmups Off-Topic Forum, of all places) to be convinced that Al-Queda took credit for the 9/11 attacks. There's simply "not knowing" and then there's "actively avoiding knowledge that would challenge your world view".

By the way you didn't mention what you thought of Mr. Fouda's article.

A couple books I recommend on 9/11:

The Looming Tower (covers AQ's road to 9/11)
Firefight by Patrick Creed and Rick Newman (all about the Pentagon crash, including pictures of plane parts, accounts of firefighters picking up dead bodies and clearing airplane wreckage)
Touching History by Lynn Spencer (about the air traffic controllers of that day)

I would also recommend the 9/11 commission and NIST reports as references.

I don't believe everything I'm told just because.

I'm happy that you're happy that the invisible man is dead. Now I'd like to see some footage and non-faked photos of the bearded felon.

Although I don't think it will have any impact on the people with doubts now, I do hope they put out the images.

You might note that terrorist groups haven't waited to mourn Bin Laden's death: Lashkar e Taiba has held rallies protesting his murder and the Hamas president of Gaza has denounced the murder of a "holy warrior". Maybe they didn't get the Alex Jones memo that we should wait to find out if the corpse wasn't a lizardman body double?

I mean, how else could you explain their outrage?

[antron]

sk, how else do you explain the fact that even if every single al Qaeda recording was faked and fooled every single country that ever examined it, they never came out and denied being the perpetrators. is there a big internet filter that removes all real al Qaeda messages? i can't believe your views actually convince you to think you are smarter than everyone else, with your 50+ IQ. such delusion.

[Skykid]

I called you lazy because in this instance you did not seek truth, but expected it to be handed to you. We're ten years from 9/11 and you asked (on the shmups Off-Topic Forum, of all places) to be convinced that Al-Queda took credit for the 9/11 attacks. There's simply "not knowing" and then there's "actively avoiding knowledge that would challenge your world view".

By the way you didn't mention what you thought of Mr. Fouda's article.

I thought it was interesting, but I've read it before years ago. It's a very candid admission of guilt, of which no video exists (only audio) because apparently the video part was confiscated after the interview. Considering it's an Al Jazeera broadcast and its relative importance I expected the video portion of the interview to survive - if you're admitting the attacks you may as well show your face.
It aired on Al Jazeera on September 9th 2002, almost on the one year anniversary of the attack. I'm not suggesting this choice of date undermines the interview, but an audio recording of a man assuming all responsibility is only as significant as you want it to be.

Although I don't think it will have any impact on the people with doubts now, I do hope they put out the images.

It would impact my standpoint greatly if video was released showing footage of the attack and of the dead victim. I don't want just images, images are easily susceptible to manipulation. I think the US people and the people of the world who have had to endure a decade long manhunt, and the conflict, rifts and falling from favour that has come with it, deserve to see hard, indisputable evidence just once. If they managed to shoot him in the head and drop him in the drink within 24 hours without bothering to properly document anything that would probably re-inforce rather than mellow my opinion.

So I'm holding my breath, wondering if they might reconsider fishing the fucker out of the deep blue so we can have a good, long look.

EDIT: Just want to mention that, while I happen to be the only one to have any balls to join this thread and say what I think, I'm most certainly not the only person here with these views. While I'd appreciate the very many people of this forum (and the world) who hesitate to accept media versions of events to raise their voices and bring me some respite, I don't blame them for not wanting to jump in the firing line.
But by discussing this business with you I'd appreciate if you took stock of things by acknowledging that holding conflicting views doesn't necessarily make you a conspiracy nut job, and certainly not a lone crusader. I'm not a truther, just a proofer, and if that puts me somewhere on the fence I'm perfectly happy with that.

I do like George Carlin though.

[adversity1]

I thought it was interesting, but I've read it before years ago. It's a very candid admission of guilt, of which no video exists (only audio) because apparently the video part was confiscated after the interview. Considering it's an Al Jazeera broadcast and its relative importance I expected the video portion of the interview to survive - if you're admitting the attacks you may as well show your face.

Fair point, usually islamists are not so shy. In this instance however, it's quite possible that KSM was preparing to go into the field and didn't want his or bin al-shibh's faces exposed. KSM was later proven to be active in Iraq preparing islamic resistance cells, and was captured there by the American government.

It aired on Al Jazeera on September 9th 2002, almost on the one year anniversary of the attack. I'm not suggesting this choice of date undermines the interview, but an audio recording of a man assuming all responsibility is only as significant as you want it to be.

Well you can ask Mr. Fouda on Twitter if you have doubts: http://twitter.com/#!/YosriFouda

Although Fouda was blindfolded during the interview, he had enough information that he was able to pass on to the American government to help them get a location fix on, and apprehend bin al-shibh just days later:

http://mediamatters.org/research/200609220021

Is this enough to convince you that Al-Queda was responsible for 9-11?

There are also multiple martyr videos and declarations by Al-Queda which antron has brought up, such as this video of Waleed al Shehri, who was one of the hijackers of Flight 11:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 4812155210#

[antron]

Is this enough to convince you that Al-Queda was responsible for 9-11?

responsible? we were just trying to convince him that they took credit for it (which is obvious). you can forget getting any further than that.

actually, the point was just to show that he is unreasonable.

[charlie chong]

am i the only one disgusted at americans partying about this?
just cos osama's dead doesn't bring back any of the dead people who died in 9/11 or the people who have died since including your own soldiers.hardly a cause for celebration ! you do realize how disrespectful of the dead you are being by whooping it up?

also why are they so keen to observe muslim burial rights now when corpses of innocent muslims slain by mistake were just left to rot in the street?

burying at sea is not the right way to bury a muslim.they are meant to be put in a coffin with the corpses head pointing to mecca for a start.
jus sayin

[antron]

am i the only one disgusted at americans partying about this?
just cos osama's dead doesn't bring back any of the dead people who died in 9/11 or the people who have died since including your own soldiers.hardly a cause for celebration ! you do realize how disrespectful of the dead you are being by whooping it up?

also why are they so keen to observe muslim burial rights now when corpses of innocent muslims slain by mistake were just left to rot in the street?

burying at sea is not the right way to bury a muslim.they are meant to be put in a coffin with the corpses head pointing to mecca for a start.
jus sayin

I'm with you on the celebrations. prepare to be a lot more disgusted when they release a picture of his head today.

The sea dumping was just an excuse to deny him a shrine.

[burgerkingdiamond]

am i the only one disgusted at americans partying about this?
just cos osama's dead doesn't bring back any of the dead people who died in 9/11 or the people who have died since including your own soldiers.hardly a cause for celebration ! you do realize how disrespectful of the dead you are being by whooping it up?

also why are they so keen to observe muslim burial rights now when corpses of innocent muslims slain by mistake were just left to rot in the street?

burying at sea is not the right way to bury a muslim.they are meant to be put in a coffin with the corpses head pointing to mecca for a start.
jus sayin

He deserved to die. I dont see a problem celebrating it.

[charlie chong]

seriously "if" i was a patriotic american solider and shot obama i woudn't even crack a smile.If he deserved to die is besides the point.His death has/will acheive nothing but a false sense of victory and a swelling of national pride.

it's true tho that the u.s is DAMNED IF THEY DO DAMNED IF THEY DON'T

i really distrust all forms of media both corparate news and the conspiracy theorists.
now you got a whole generation of tinfoil hat wearers that make themselves look silly on a regular basis and the people who don't believe in either side are just left confused.(WARNING PUT TIN FOILED HAT ON)almost makes you wonder if the conspiracy theories are government prescribed because you can see what a destablizing effect the opposing views have even on a thread like this

[adversity1]

seriously "if" i was a patriotic american solider and shot obama i woudn't even crack a smile.If he deserved to die is besides the point.His death has/will acheive nothing but a false sense of victory and a swelling of national pride.