Issue with a member here

[ZOM]

From hearing both sides, I think the buyer was too impatient and the seller was too quick to react.

Sums it up.

$1000 will make anyone nervous and get you to react too quickly, a bit more patience from the buyer's side and less carelessness(buying stuff with the money before the deal is over) on the seller's side would have helped.

[spadgy]

I personally have only just got into the whole Play-Asia importing malarky, and havnt yet to started buying from privite sellers which seems to be a bit of a ball ache.

It worth noting that almost exclusively the sales that go bad get all the attention (such is the nature of everyone's attraction to drama).

Most of us have had nothing but pleasurable sales. Many of us have had many many good sales.

[Skykid]

I personally have only just got into the whole Play-Asia importing malarky, and havnt yet to started buying from privite sellers which seems to be a bit of a ball ache.

It worth noting that almost exclusively the sales that go bad get all the attention (such is the nature of everyone's attraction to drama).

Most of us have had nothing but pleasurable sales. Many of us have had many many good sales.

I'd rather buy from a forum member than anywhere else these days. Out of 200+ deals, 99% have been perfect.

[Matskat]

From hearing both sides, I think the buyer was too impatient and the seller was too quick to react.

Sums it up.

$1000 will make anyone nervous and get you to react too quickly, a bit more patience from the buyer's side and less carelessness(buying stuff with the money before the deal is over) on the seller's side would have helped.

That's the crux of it. Shit guys, I get nervous over $150 transactions with reputable traders just because it's the goddamn INTERNET.

It's the same as watching your back in a shady neighborhood...or something. Now make it $1000!? That's a mortgage payment, or 4 months of car payments, or a DFK 1.5 kit! I'd be shitting my pants as a buyer (maybe not in THIS situation as I am understanding of the roadblocks that arise with weekend shipping..and the whole "It's TUESDAY when in reality it's MONDAY).

BUT... Sometimes even Monday is difficult - work is crazy, etc.

As the SELLER, I TOTALLY see why dude tripped. The threat of refund after shipping is very real, and as the seller you're screwed. I could see dudes running scams like that - ie. force refund upon receiving shipping info, get the kit & the cash - there's a risk in being a pal and sending PayPal gift.

The lesson here is both parties pulled out their guns too fast - period.

Let's all learn from this - cuz knowing is 8/16th the battle

[undamned]

It is NOT Tuesday. It is Monday, which is the next day after Saturday...

Sorry, my brain has been warped to immediately think about "Friday, Friday!"
-ud

[njiska]

Anyone who doesn't falsify values on customs forms gets no business from me, period.
I don't pay tax premiums to buy people's old gaming shit, and I don't give a damn what the law says about it.

See I completely understand this because here in Canada we also get horribly raped in customs charges. For used good there is no need to actually state the transaction value because the actual value of the goods to customs is quite relative. Marking as a gift is also a must to avoid ridiculous charges.

For some reason a lot of the American's I talk to don't understand this and get a little iffy over misdeclaring. Maybe those guys don't have to suffer the heavy charges we do.

[brentsg]

For some reason a lot of the American's I talk to don't understand this and get a little iffy over misdeclaring. Maybe those guys don't have to suffer the heavy charges we do.

Correct, we don't have any VAT.. though the politicians are slobbering over the idea right now. Govt doesn't want the political backlash of a straight up tax increase on the middle class, so the pursuit is via indirect means like VAT.. energy taxes.. elimination of common tax deductions, while talking about the rich to get everyone riled up.

The biggest thing is that declaring at a low value also means no insurance. So unless the buyer is 100% trustworthy and willing to accept the risk, it's not something wise for the seller. Declaring low has nothing but downside for the seller, since the risk is increased. Sure, it helps to secure a buyer but with a bit of patience this isn't a big deal.

Skykid posted earlier that if an underdeclared package were to be lost then he'd try to split the loss with the seller. Personally, I'd rather just sell it elsewhere such that the package could be properly insured. Worst case scenario, the package is lost and since it never arrives, the buyer does a Paypal chargeback. So in that sense the risk is much greater for the seller and the benefit is only for the buyer.

[Barrakketh]

For some reason a lot of the American's I talk to don't understand this and get a little iffy over misdeclaring. Maybe those guys don't have to suffer the heavy charges we do.

That depends on the value of the item. Items less than $200 generally get cleared with no extra paperwork/charges. After that I think it's 5-10 percent up to $1,000 dollars, and beyond that it depends on how the item is classified under the Harmonized Tariff Schedule.

Incorrect paperwork or falsified documents might not turn out well for you. Customs can hold the item, assess it, and charge the applicable duty rate. That might end up being higher than the declared value would be since they'll be determining its worth. There's also the issue of the declared value being what the item is insured for.

At 10% that's higher than retail tax here (7% in my state/county), but not a huge issue. Compared to internet purchases it is higher since you aren't taxed for that, you're supposed to declare it as a "Use Tax" on your income tax forms...but nobody actually does that unless you're a business

[brentsg]

For some reason a lot of the American's I talk to don't understand this and get a little iffy over misdeclaring. Maybe those guys don't have to suffer the heavy charges we do.

That depends on the value of the item. Items less than $200 generally get cleared with no extra paperwork/charges. After that I think it's 5-10 percent up to $1,000 dollars, and beyond that it depends on how the item is classified under the Harmonized Tariff Schedule.

That's the key. Video games, even coin-op games, fall into a category that isn't assessed any import duty.

[njiska]

For some reason a lot of the American's I talk to don't understand this and get a little iffy over misdeclaring. Maybe those guys don't have to suffer the heavy charges we do.

That depends on the value of the item. Items less than $200 generally get cleared with no extra paperwork/charges. After that I think it's 5-10 percent up to $1,000 dollars, and beyond that it depends on how the item is classified under the Harmonized Tariff Schedule.

That's the key. Video games, even coin-op games, fall into a category that isn't assessed any import duty.

Here anything over $60 is assessed and can be charged base tax which is 13% + customs handling fee + additional duty charges based on the type of item and it's intended use. Sometimes you can catch a break by declaring it a gift, but not always. Usually my HMV orders sneak through without a charge, but I have a feeling my latest one will get hit.

[jonny5]

It's one thing to undervalue a cheap item, but to undervalue a $1000 item is downright stupid! If that package gets lost, the most you are going to get back on it is the declared value, unless you want to try and tell the postal company you wrote a fake price on it, at which point they will probably point out, 'hey, that's mail fraud'.

To put yourselves(buyer and seller) in that questionable a position just so you can save a few bucks if you do get hit by customs doesn't make any sense to me; if you are spending $1000 on something, whats a few more bucks in customs? Especially considering, if it does get lost or damaged, you will be compensated accordingly.

Also, paypal receipts are not acceptable proof of value, as it's a private transaction; it doesn't prove the value of anything, it simply shows the amounts exchanged on a transaction, a transaction that you can't really prove was for a specific item.

Not everything over $60 gets flagged in Canada, its random. I have had stuff well over $1000 come from the states and not had a customs charge, and I have had $25 package from Playasia hit with customs. It's pretty much luck of the draw on whether you get hit or not; if a customs officer picks up your box, its at least an $8 'handling' fee, plus 13% of declared value, but unless your package gets picked off the pile, so to speak, no customs. I prefer the peace of mind knowing my purchase was covered by insurance and the possibility of spending a few more bucks to get it into the country, than maybe saving a few bucks and have that one time something gets lost or damaged be a huge loss for me or the buyer/seller!

I will never understand people who are willing to throw down big money for stuff, but would rather throw all coverage to the wind just to save a couple bucks on a 'what if' like customs fees?

[neorichieb1971]

What were the feedback scores of the buyer/seller?

I would have gone off that personally. Its why its there in the first place. People who are unreasonable rarely get to 10 feedbacks without a negative.

[Dave_K.]

Skykid posted earlier that if an underdeclared package were to be lost then he'd try to split the loss with the seller. Personally, I'd rather just sell it elsewhere such that the package could be properly insured. Worst case scenario, the package is lost and since it never arrives, the buyer does a Paypal chargeback. So in that sense the risk is much greater for the seller and the benefit is only for the buyer.

This is exactly the point I was getting to (or hoping skykid would understand). If the buyer explicitly states they want the package devalued, then they are voiding insurance and taking on the complete risk of loss or damage. No splitting of costs, buyer is explicitly taking the gamble not the seller.

Further, in a transaction such as this, I would only accept PP gift, so the buyer can't file a chargeback when their gamble doesn't pay off.

[hd]

Still no refund from MSadda! How does it feel to keep near $1000 which do not belong to you ?
paypal dispute is in progress...

Thank you for opening this thread so everybody can follow and finally see how you are acting
first 3 days without shipping, then 5 days without refund. and soon the story will end.

Thanx to the mods for deleting the negative feedback he gave me.

[Skykid]

Skykid posted earlier that if an underdeclared package were to be lost then he'd try to split the loss with the seller. Personally, I'd rather just sell it elsewhere such that the package could be properly insured. Worst case scenario, the package is lost and since it never arrives, the buyer does a Paypal chargeback. So in that sense the risk is much greater for the seller and the benefit is only for the buyer.

This is exactly the point I was getting to (or hoping skykid would understand). If the buyer explicitly states they want the package devalued, then they are voiding insurance and taking on the complete risk of loss or damage. No splitting of costs, buyer is explicitly taking the gamble not the seller.

Further, in a transaction such as this, I would only accept PP gift, so the buyer can't file a chargeback when their gamble doesn't pay off.

How does undervaluing an item increase it's chances of loss?

The only thing the buyer agrees to is that if it's an insured service, they'll only be compensated for whatever was marked on the customs declaration. That's the buyers gamble.

If it's standard airmail, well then there's nothing in it anyway - zero compensation for loss.

Just because I say to mark some old Saturn game as $20 rather than the $60 I paid, still means I expect the seller to deliver it to me. If it fails to get here, it's up to both parties to amicably figure out what to do next - doesn't that make sense?

[cools]

If it fails to get here, it's up to both parties to amicably figure out what to do next - doesn't that make sense?

If it fails to arrive the buyer is only entitled to whatever the shipping firm provides as compensation, once the seller has gone through the fun process of claiming from them. There is absolutely no onus on the seller to give you any refund beyond that whatsoever.

[brentsg]

Just because I say to mark some old Saturn game as $20 rather than the $60 I paid, still means I expect the seller to deliver it to me. If it fails to get here, it's up to both parties to amicably figure out what to do next - doesn't that make sense?

No, because the seller will want to send it insured to minimize risk. The buyer waives the insurance in an effort to avoid paying the tax man. The benefit of the risk is 100% toward the buyer, so the buyer needs to assume the risk as well.

Anyways, this is all silly. You guys love your healthcare system, you need to pay that VAT.

[Trevor spencer]

You guys love your healthcare system, you need to pay that VAT.

Have you seen Sicko

[Casey120]

you do get hit by customs doesn't make any sense to me; if you are spending $1000 on something, whats a few more bucks in customs? Especially considering, if it does get lost or damaged, you will be compensated accordingly.

Although I agree and the risk is for the buyer, a $1000 game with shipping import tax and Vat would be more than $200 extra , that's not just " a few more bucks " .

[MmSadda]

Thanks HD, for opening a paypal dispute the day before I told you I could get to the bank to try to move finds around.

You need to find some patience. You will get your money back, but any good will I had towards speeding up that process is gone.

[Mortificator]

Members with issues here.

[captpain]

Members with issues here.

Members with members here.

[kernow]

Thanks HD, for opening a paypal dispute the day before I told you I could get to the bank to try to move finds around.

You need to find some patience. You will get your money back, but any good will I had towards speeding up that process is gone.

I haven't read this thread because it's terrible, but I am under the impression you now owe him $1000 you spent and he's got nothing and is just waiting for his money back. Thats not very good.

[mesh control]

Should this thread be closed and let the parties involved sort this out by PM?

[Paradigm]

Should this thread be closed and let the parties involved sort this out by PM?

This thread should never have been started in the first place.

You need to find some patience. You will get your money back, but any good will I had towards speeding up that process is gone.

This should have nothing to do with good will, you're not doing him a favour. Show some maturity and pay the man what he is owed ASAP.

[neorichieb1971]

I can't speak for the two members concerned. But everyone I've dealt with at shmups.com has been 110%, some are 200%.

The quicker this gets resolved the quicker this board can be sold to someone else. Thats got to be the best resolution I can think of

[Dave_K.]

How does undervaluing an item increase it's chances of loss?

It increases the risk, not chances of loss. Chances may be low it ends up lost or damaged, but risk can still be high if its a high dollar value like a PCB.

Just because I say to mark some old Saturn game as $20 rather than the $60 I paid, still means I expect the seller to deliver it to me. If it fails to get here, it's up to both parties to amicably figure out what to do next - doesn't that make sense?

Completely agree, especially for low value items. But for things of higher value I always require tracking, which means EMS (more expensive shipping). If the buyer wants to go cheap on shipping without tracking and devalue, then again, its his risk to take, not the seller.

[TonK]

Thanks HD, for opening a paypal dispute the day before I told you I could get to the bank to try to move finds around.

You need to find some patience. You will get your money back, but any good will I had towards speeding up that process is gone.

You really shouldn't have spent the money - dude is pissed you can spend his money but not give it back quick enough.

Best thing you could have done was withdrawal $1000 and go to WalMart for a GreenDot MoneyPak - instant transfer into PayPal and to HD.

You acting like a dick isn't helping your reputation.

Remember, I vouched for you.

[Matskat]

Thanks HD, for opening a paypal dispute the day before I told you I could get to the bank to try to move finds around.

You need to find some patience. You will get your money back, but any good will I had towards speeding up that process is gone.

You really shouldn't have spent the money - dude is pissed you can spend his money but not give it back quick enough.

Best thing you could have done was withdrawal $1000 and go to WalMart for a GreenDot MoneyPak - instant transfer into PayPal and to HD.

You acting like a dick isn't helping your reputation.

Remember, I vouched for you.

Damn, son!

This shit's like Wall Street. Tonk is like, Michael Douglas or something....and Mmsadda is like "winning" Charlie Sheen...

Or whatever...it's early.

[Demetori]

I'd just never sell or buy something with such a high value with out giving its true value for compensation if it got lost.