PSP Sengoku Cannon - Yay, it's actually a shmup

Thunder Force · Post by **Thunder Force** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:28 am

dave4shmups wrote:I now know 2 people who own a PSP INSTEAD of owning an TV-based console!

Yep, that actually makes sense to me. Much like people can now buy good laptops to replace full size PCs in some cases. Once the software library is a bit larger (and including emulation) then the PSP will probably do quite nicely as a TV-console replacement. You're not tied down to sitting in the same chair every day to play your games. You can live your life, and play games and watch movies (or music etc.) wherever you want. PSP is especially good for older working gamers often too tired or short on time during weekdays to sit down in front of a TV to game for hours at a time. IMO Sony has really delivered on their promise of reinventing what portable gaming is all about. Games like Wipeout Pure have really taken the hardcore gaming that used to be achievable only on non-portable systems and now made them available to play anywhere we want. I see this as just as big in some ways, as when we first got arcade-quality games on a regular basis on home consoles.

Hopefully the lifecycle and success of this system will match what Playstation and PS2 have done.

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:35 am

Thunder Force wrote:
dave4shmups wrote:I now know 2 people who own a PSP INSTEAD of owning an TV-based console!
Yep, that actually makes sense to me. Much like people can now buy good laptops to replace full size PCs in some cases. Once the software library is a bit larger (and including emulation) then the PSP will probably do quite nicely as a TV-console replacement. You're not tied down to sitting in the same chair every day to play your games. You can live your life, and play games and watch movies (or music etc.) wherever you want. PSP is especially good for older working gamers often too tired or short on time during weekdays to sit down in front of a TV to game for hours at a time. IMO Sony has really delivered on their promise of reinventing what portable gaming is all about. Games like Wipeout Pure have really taken the hardcore gaming that used to be achievable only on non-portable systems and now made them available to play anywhere we want. I see this as just as big in some ways, as when we first got arcade-quality games on a regular basis on home consoles.

Hopefully the lifecycle and success of this system will match what Playstation and PS2 have done.

Well, I've been told that Sony has a policy, at least with their TV-based consoles, to allow them to always have a certain life-span-forget how many years.

I can appreciate Sony making movies for the PSP, but as a gamer, I could really give a rip about watching movies on ANY console; handheld or otherwise. But, for the audience you're talking about, it does make sense.

I just hope that any future shmups we get, like a new Gradius, for example, aren't re-hashes of PS2 shmups-like a PSP re-hash of Gradius V, for example. Unless, of course, they add in extras, like Hudson has done with PSP Star Soldier.

Cthulhu · Post by **Cthulhu** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:50 pm

I picked up both Sengoku Cannon and Soldier Blade just before leaving Japan and 1CCed both of them on the way home... my first Psikyo 1CC!

Aine is horribly overpowered as always in the Sengoku games, so beating it with him wasn't -too- difficult, but the other characters just move too fast for the later levels. I was happy that one of my faves from Sengoku Blaede (the girl with the lemur, I forget her name) was back as one of the hidden chars, but she's totally useless... grr.

I agree that the backgrounds look pretty poor for the most part, and that it was kind of dissapointing that virtually all of the bosses are people and not larger enemies as in Blaede... but I still enjoyed the game as a whole. If you already have a PSP, I'd say go for it, but I wouldn't buy one just for this by any means.

gameoverDude · Post by **gameoverDude** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:34 am

Cthulhu wrote:I picked up both Sengoku Cannon and Soldier Blade just before leaving Japan and 1CCed both of them on the way home... my first Psikyo 1CC!

Aine is horribly overpowered as always in the Sengoku games, so beating it with him wasn't -too- difficult, but the other characters just move too fast for the later levels. I was happy that one of my faves from Sengoku Blaede (the girl with the lemur, I forget her name) was back as one of the hidden chars, but she's totally useless... grr.

I agree that the backgrounds look pretty poor for the most part, and that it was kind of dissapointing that virtually all of the bosses are people and not larger enemies as in Blaede... but I still enjoyed the game as a whole. If you already have a PSP, I'd say go for it, but I wouldn't buy one just for this by any means.

The girl's name is Junis, and the lemur's name is Socrates. She's actually decent in Sengoku Blade, so I'm under the impression that they somehow nerfed her in SC. Sounds like they may have made her too fast.

Cthulhu · Post by **Cthulhu** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:38 pm

gameoverDude wrote: The girl's name is Junis, and the lemur's name is Socrates. She's actually decent in Sengoku Blade, so I'm under the impression that they somehow nerfed her in SC. Sounds like they may have made her too fast.

Yep. She moves so quickly that by the middle of level 2 you're stuck using her power-attack just to keep from running into everything on screen... but that ruins your attack spread. I couldn't believe just how fast they made her... it's never happened in a Psikyo game before. Then again, this game seems to be only partially made by real Psikyo members.

jiji · Post by **jiji** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:54 pm

Cthulhu wrote:Yep. She moves so quickly that by the middle of level 2 you're stuck using her power-attack just to keep from running into everything on screen... but that ruins your attack spread. I couldn't believe just how fast they made her... it's never happened in a Psikyo game before.

This is how I feel about pretty much all the characters. Everyone moves too fast, and so there's no way I can properly dodge the patterns, especially with that D-pad and the tiny lag.

This game even makes me appreciate Sengoku Ace, a game I never really cared much for until now. T_T

brand1bil · Post by **brand1bil** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:38 pm

Can any of you guys who own this game record some sort of video of the game in action? Whould be appriciated!

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:11 pm

brand1bil wrote:Can any of you guys who own this game record some sort of video of the game in action? Whould be appriciated!

Diddo, I've been wanting to see this game in action for a while now.

Toxi · Post by **Toxi** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:35 pm

I received my copy of Sengoku Cannon today. I just playes a few minutes and the whole game looks really awful. It would have been better to use a plain light blue background that this 3d shit. The movement speed of the character isn't too bad. If you push the triangle button, your character moves very slow. You get used to it after a few minutes.

I just played a few minutes so I can' t really say if I like the game or not. The first impressions aren't really good.

Regards,

Toxi
http://www.triggerzone.com

8 1/2 · Post by **8 1/2** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 10:29 pm

Against all the bad reviews I decided to pick this game up today. I couldn't help it--the artwork is just so fucking pretty.

After about two hours with it I have to say I'm not hating it. I'm not loving it, but it's actually ok if you play as Aine and don't take it too seriously. I have Mushi for my "sit down and get serious" shmupping, but this, I think, is really going to serve me well at work.

It really is ugly though. The framerate is just barely good enough to manage the action and the 3D graphics are a shame. With a bit more polish this could have been a real classic, but as it stands it's just a nice time-killer. I'm happy with it though. I NEEDED a shmup for my PSP, and I simply don't like Space Invaders and I already played Star Soldier to death on the PS2 so this was sort of my last resort.

On a side-note the import store had Tenchu as well. When the hell did that come out? I almost got it instead...

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:30 pm

8 1/2 wrote:Against all the bad reviews I decided to pick this game up today. I couldn't help it--the artwork is just so fucking pretty.

After about two hours with it I have to say I'm not hating it. I'm not loving it, but it's actually ok if you play as Aine and don't take it too seriously. I have Mushi for my "sit down and get serious" shmupping, but this, I think, is really going to serve me well at work.

It really is ugly though. The framerate is just barely good enough to manage the action and the 3D graphics are a shame. With a bit more polish this could have been a real classic, but as it stands it's just a nice time-killer. I'm happy with it though. I NEEDED a shmup for my PSP, and I simply don't like Space Invaders and I already played Star Soldier to death on the PS2 so this was sort of my last resort.

On a side-note the import store had Tenchu as well. When the hell did that come out? I almost got it instead...

Dude, you should really consider getting PSP Star Soldier, despite the fact that you've already played the PS2 version. There are 3 different ships in it, and each one has different weaponry.

jiji · Post by **jiji** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 1:26 am

Wow, thanks, Toxi! I honestly (in all my idiocy) had not once tried pressing or holding the regular shot button. The slower speed makes most of the swarms a lot more manageable, and I daresay it makes the game playable. The framerate still hurts, but not quite as much as I thought. I think I'm starting to like this more, now.

For those without the game, holding the regular shot button in slows you down and makes you fire a stronger, continuous shot, just like in DDP and Mushi and Touhou games. With that and Espgaluda-like bullet-converting Cannon system, this honestly plays more like a Cave game than like any Psikyo game. :p

8 1/2 · Post by **8 1/2** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:08 am

After a few more hours I must say the game is really growing on me. I mapped it so that normal shot is "X" with bomb set to "O" and the Cannon shot set to the "R" trigger. Really comfy that way. Not the best thing ever, and I wish they had just ported Blaede instead, but seriously, look past the ugly exterior and it's pretty fun shmupping on the go.

MadSteelDarkness · Post by **MadSteelDarkness** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:17 am

Many thanks for the impressions, jiji, TF, and 8 1/2!

I'll probably pick this up at some point, but I've been spending waaaaaay too much on other games.

Can any of you guys tell me if this game screws with (updates) the PSP's firmware (making it harder to...errr...play other games on it)?

Thunder Force · Post by **Thunder Force** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:42 am

MadSteelDarkness wrote:Many thanks for the impressions, jiji, TF, and 8 1/2!

Just for clarity, I'm not one of the Sengoku Cannon owners.

MadSteelDarkness wrote:Can any of you guys tell me if this game screws with (updates) the PSP's firmware (making it harder to...errr...play other games on it)?

I've read it requires 1.50.

iatneH · Post by **iatneH** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:13 am

It really doesn't feel like Psikyo to me...

I tried it today with a coin taped to my D-pad too, it works a little better but I still need to get used to it (and also use better tape).
Tomorrow I'll try it with a Genesis 6-button D-pad assembly taped to it.

I like both Star Soldier & Sengoku Cannon, although I've only played both for a few minutes, I must say they're both continuing to grow on me. Definitely worthy PSP purchases.

8 1/2 · Post by **8 1/2** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:10 pm

I have a U.S. PSP that is already 1.5. When I initially loaded the game a screen came up in Japanese that I had to button through and then it loaded something for a long time. I checked my firmware and it was still 1.5 so I think perhaps it was simply an unneeded update to 1.5. If you have 1.0 and wish to keep it, this game may change it to 1.5. I tried rebooting the game again and the screen didn't come up, so that somewhat confirms the firmware update.

Soldato J · Post by **Soldato J** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:03 pm

Well, it is sounding a little better now. Pardon my noobness, but would updating the firmware on a US PSP make any difference? Are emulators playable if you do this (or for that matter, are they playable at all on a US psp)?

jiji · Post by **jiji** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:23 pm

There's a simple exploit you can use to play homebrew software on a 1.5 PSP. Sengoku Cannon's firmware upgrade won't make any difference to any US PSP out there.

Soldato J · Post by **Soldato J** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:48 pm

I am about to jump off the fence and order Soldier and Cannon and get a PSP w/Lumines. Thanks for all the info

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 9:45 pm

Again, if anyone could please capture some video of Sengoku Cannon in action, that would rock!

U K Narayan · Post by **U K Narayan** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 7:09 am

dave4shmups wrote:Again, if anyone could please capture some video of Sengoku Cannon in action, that would rock!

Meh, I don't really care much about the game anymore, but that artwork is superb. I wonder if there will be an artbook?

iatneH · Post by **iatneH** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 12:40 am

I've taken a fierce liking to Star Soldier now.
Sengoku Cannon stays at work, but Star Soldier goes back and forth with me between home and work. It's now my favourite way to get my portable shooter fix, since Nanostray failed horribly in this respect (at least for me).

Also, I've taped a Genesis 6-button D-pad assembly to my PSP, and it works wonderfully. Much better than a coin, which was already an improvement. It now feels almost like a Saturn pad, granted it's a little bit mushier due to the give in the tape. You guys have to try it out!!!

ResOGlas · Post by **ResOGlas** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 7:22 am

Hmmm....

I picked up Sengoku Cannon today and I think it's absolutely awesome. The framerate really isn't bad at all, and the bullet patterns are awesome. Yeah, for the most part the 3D backgrounds aren't that impressive, but they aren't THAT bad either. Compared to Star Soldier which I also own, this game is solid gold. You guys should really appreciate a good game when it falls in your lap, this game should definitely get at least a 9/10.

U K Narayan · Post by **U K Narayan** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 7:32 am

Can anyone list the bosses corresponding to the levels? And maybe, describe the levels?

brand1bil · Post by **brand1bil** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 4:03 pm

chanting: Cap-ture vi-de-o!

come on! I wanna see it in action before I decide weher to buy it or not...

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 2:04 pm

brand1bil wrote:chanting: Cap-ture vi-de-o!

come on! I wanna see it in action before I decide weher to buy it or not...

Seriously; let's see some video already, please!

icepick · Post by **icepick** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 5:39 pm

I'm guessing that it's a bit difficult to capture direct video of a handheld system, particularly a new one with a widescreen display. I say that all game systems (home, portable or... er... otherwise) should have AV out!

That's for a different reason, though. Videos of shooting games are nice to look at, but they give about as much of an impression of how much one will enjoy playing the actual game as static screen shots do. Looks can be quite deceiving, and it goes both ways. The funny thing is; Most already know whether or not they're going to get a game, even before viewing screens or videos--So, it might be practical to simply cut to the chase.

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 3:44 am

icepick wrote:I'm guessing that it's a bit difficult to capture direct video of a handheld system, particularly a new one with a widescreen display. I say that all game systems (home, portable or... er... otherwise) should have AV out!

That's for a different reason, though. Videos of shooting games are nice to look at, but they give about as much of an impression of how much one will enjoy playing the actual game as static screen shots do. Looks can be quite deceiving, and it goes both ways. The funny thing is; Most already know whether or not they're going to get a game, even before viewing screens or videos--So, it might be practical to simply cut to the chase.

*shrugs* Well, somebody did it with a time-attack with PSP Star Soldier, and, considering that the PSP's a handheld, IMO it turned out pretty well. And keep in mind, the PSP was being held vertically the whole time; Sengoku Blade's a hori, so you wouldn't even have to do that. So, I don't see why someone couldn't capture video from Sengoku Cannon.

And Kiken's Superplay of Gun Spike (aka Cannon Spike) for the Dreamcast gave me a VERY good impression of what the game plays like-enough so that I bought it, and it's now one of my favorite DC shmups.

8 1/2 · Post by **8 1/2** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 7:08 am

Back with some more thoughts after a week of steady play on this game.

One word for bosses in this game: Sparse. Level one comes on strong with a big feudal cannon that takes up a third of the screen, but every boss after that is just a character floating around. Not only that, but the characters repeat. You'll fight the same couple of girls several times throughout the game.

Which leads me to bullet patterns. Bullets come at what I would call medium pace, meaning that they're not slow manic clouds nor are they the angry fast shots in later levels of Gunbird 2. One problem that I have is simply knowing exactly where the hitbox is. I've died at times I thought I shouldn't have and then survived by squeezing through impossible gaps. It would seem that some of the larger bullets have a hitbox of their own. This problem is further compounded by the simple fact that navigating a tiny character on a portable (no matter how nice the screen) is difficult when two-pixel precision is key. Because of this, I've found myself bombing things that I shouldn't have to.

Backgrounds are some of the saddest 3D I've ever seen. Remember playing Tekken on PSone and when two large characters would grab eachother their backs and arms would flicker and have massive polygon drop-out? There's one scene in the game that has mountains surrounded by fog. The fog clips in and out of the mountains, its textures jittering and changing placement around the edge. Suddenly the camera pans out and there's a moment of just random backgrounds being thrown up on screen--a flash of white, then blue, then green, then SNAP back to normal.

Yet, through all of that, the core game remains fundementally fun. It's really a solid shooter under all the ugly and a more than worthwhile handheld shooter. If only there had been a little more money and time thrown at this game it could have been really great. If I can solve the mystery of the hitbox and find of real and reliable system for playing this game besides bombing the tough patterns then I'd give it a solid 7 or 7.5.