The legitimacy of teaching abroad programs.

[Siren2011]

Taken from here: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 02&start=0

Getting jobs as an English teacher isn't difficult and pays better than most people's basics in a lot of countries. Getting a working visa isn't tough and there are plenty of options.

Which programs would you recommend? I looked into this one

http://www.teflinstitute.com/

and found reviews over the net ranging from "it's a scam" to "great organization, here". But of course someone could have been payed to say that...I talked to the lady on the phone and she told me everything I wanted to hear (free accommodation and flight reimbursement), but something just doesn't add up. What would be my odds of getting hired once I to get the online degree, anyway? It just seems too fishy to me.

If anyone knows of a legit institute that works with people who are looking to teach abroad (preferably someone who has been through the program, and therefore knows it is a good one), please do not hesitate to say which one. At this point it seems like the only safe bet would be to screw getting an online TEFL and go through the University Of Houston foreign system or some shit. My main goal is to get certified as an English teacher and live and work in Guilin, China.

[GaijinPunch]

Many countries will require you to have a 4-year degree. If you really want to bean ESL teacher, get a bachelor's in ESL. Problem solved.

[greg]

I recently took a 120 hour certification class at http://www.i-to-i.com/tefl/ and they aren't a scam. I've read a few negative reviews of the program, but I could consider the source just by reading their gripes. I actually learned some interesting stuff while taking the class and it gave me the confidence to do so. I now volunteer on Monday nights to teach an ESL class at a church to immigrants from various countries and it is super fun.

i-to-i seems to only be actively recruiting for Thailand and China, though. When it comes to Japan, they just recommended me to apply to Interac, which is a fairly crappy organization run by Mormons.

I haven't yet started contacting schools in Japan to see if they officially recognize the i-to-i TEFL certification. If you have a certification that a school will officially recognize, it can mean an increase in pay.

If you aren't emotionally invested to Japan like I am for various reasons, I'd suggest Korea or Taiwan or someplace safe like that. There's a huge demand in China, if you don't mind living in a country run by a fairly evil government you can't trust. Plenty of people love it there and hate to come back.

[Skykid]

I haven't yet started contacting schools in Japan to see if they officially recognize the i-to-i TEFL certification.

Japan wants a degree, same as Hong Kong.

There's a huge demand in China, if you don't mind living in a country run by a fairly evil government you can't trust. Plenty of people love it there and hate to come back.

*sigh*

Yes, China is desperate for Anglais teachers and you won't need a degree (you practically won't even need a certificate.)

However, watch out for the gestapo coming around in the middle of the night, they've been known to upturn your room and rape your girlfriend (or boyfriend) for "interrogation" purposes. There's also having to abide by a curfew. In the bigger cities like Shanghai, all bars close at 6pm and the city lights go out. If you're not indoors by 7 they shoot you on sight.
You have to go into a public square every morning dressed in military attire and sing a communist anthem to a picture of Chairman Mao, but you can continue your lessons thereafter.
Beware of microphones and bugs in all public places, including your home. If you speak ill of communism, you're likely to be abducted and thrown into a pool of acid.
Most of the domestic food and Chinese made products have lead in them, so you're encouraged to grow your own vegetables and wear rubber gloves when handling physical gadgets such as mobile phones and laptops.
Everyone is poor, and you'll have to wait until Sundays for the pollution to clear so you can take some photographs to send to your mates. Just watch out for thieves - most carry knives and will gut you for a decent camera (even one with lead in it.)
They have a McDonalds equivalent called MacRonalds, but they normally only do Dog burgers. It's an acquired taste, but you may not like it.

Apart from that, it's a great destination for teaching English.

[Specineff]

I also heard that most Chinese know Kung-Fu and can stage impressive fights in which they run up walls and clash swords in the air.

[greg]

Skykid, I'm starting to understand why GP is always giving you crap.

Japan wants a degree, same as Hong Kong.

Pretty much every country demands a degree, even China. I know a guy who's dying to go teach English in China, but he doesn't have a 4 year degree. China is just as strict as anyone else. -Maybe- there are occasional loopholes, so he's holding his breath. He's lived his life as a carpenter and he's in his 50s now, so apparently getting a degree in underwater basket weaving or something else just as useful (such as history) just to get to China isn't an option for him.

Blehblehbleh, aroopychoopychoo blerkity blerky bleh blah blah blah China blah. I can smell the inside of my nose! Blah blerpity bloop boop beep. I like chocolate ice cream. Mnuh mnuh poof!

Apart from that, it's a great destination for teaching English.

Look, I'm just saying that as long as you don't care about the crap in Tibet or the crazy civil rights violations and all that philosophical stuff, China's great. Especially since you don't even see that stuff on the surface. For me, Japan is probably the way to go, but if I ever get into any legal trouble, I'll be gambling with the odds against me. Even more so if I were to get into trouble in China. But, I'd rather live and work in China than Thailand, that's for sure. Too much political instability ever since that coup d'etat a few years back.

[Skykid]

I also heard that most Chinese know Kung-Fu and can stage impressive fights in which they run up walls and clash swords in the air.

Naw, myth, surely!

Skykid, I'm starting to understand why GP is always giving you crap.

We give each other crap. It's because we get on, not because we hate each other.

Pretty much every country demands a degree, even China.

No greg, I promise you it does not. You can teach English in most parts of China with the most basic of Tefl certificates.

Look, I'm just saying that as long as you don't care about the crap in Tibet or the crazy civil rights violations and all that philosophical stuff

You don't know anything about civil rights violations and Tibet except what the news told you, and what the news told you was baloney.
Tibetan people's standard of living and education has risen dramatically since the communist occupation. They turned it from a festering pit of slavery into one where housing and education in languages is available for free (that's more than even people in mainland China receive) and the hierarchical monks no longer have supreme power over their peasant subjects. 60% of ethnic Tibetans now enrol in higher education compared to just 10% in the 80's, owing to educational advances. Reading into all that propaganda guff about Dali Lama (the great celebrity) and spiritual paradise is wasteful of the brain. You may as well read about Richard Gere shoving a hamster up his ass.
All you need to know is what the West's vested interest is in the region. Returning Tibet to a sovereign state provides a perfect military satellite over China (like Taiwan) and it's rich in oil (there's that word again) - hence the general nature of news broadcasts and subsequently, popular opinion.

I have nothing against you as an individual, I just don't like to see people regurgitate crap they heard on TV.

[nZero]

This is a thread on teaching foreign language abroad, it is not going to spiral into a political discussion thread. Anyone who wants to continue to talk about it in this thread had better be currently living in Tibet/Xizang Autonomous Region.

[greg]

You're right, nZero. I didn't mean to open up that can of worms, and Skykid, I apologize if I offended you. I personally don't have an opinion about Tibet and all that, and I actually have heard that China actually has improved that area and I'm inclined to agree with you. What I meant to say was that some people have political philosophies which would deter them from going to China, however China has probably the biggest demand for teachers. I'm not going to hate on the country at all, it's just that some of the government issues makes me uncomfortable. Three of my students are from there and I love talking with them. One of the volunteers for the ESL classes I'm involved in was a teacher there for three years, and she said the biggest mistake of her life was to come back. She really wanted to stay there indefinitely. I wouldn't mind going there myself, if I wasn't already married to a Japanese girl and planning to go back to Japan someday. And as I said, I'd go there before Thailand for sure. My aunt's from there, and she and my uncle were there when the rioters were making a big scene just a few blocks away from where her family is. Just too unstable for my opinion, and a bit out of my comfort zone.

Anyhow, back to the topic, Skykid, I would appreciate it if you could elaborate on China not requiring a 4 year degree for teaching English. This guy I know is a volunteer for the ESL program I'm doing, and I'd like to pass on any helpful information I can to him. Can he get a work visa sponsorship with no college degree at all? Would it be under the table, or would it be legit? The answer he's been given so far is that opportunities for non-degree holders are very rare and potentially risky.

[Skykid]

Skykid, I apologize if I offended you.

You didn't offend me. Believe me, you're not the first (and certainly not the last person) to assume certain things about a place you're yet to experience yourself. Most of the US population does this about most of the rest of the world.

The Chinese government have laws and methods I disagree agree with, and I don't think freedom of speech should be neutered, but that doesn't make the media fed ramblings of tyranny and provocation by western organisations (and the Nobel Peace douches) any less tiring.

Anyhow, back to the topic, Skykid, I would appreciate it if you could elaborate on China not requiring a 4 year degree for teaching English. This guy I know is a volunteer for the ESL program I'm doing, and I'd like to pass on any helpful information I can to him. Can he get a work visa sponsorship with no college degree at all? Would it be under the table, or would it be legit? The answer he's been given so far is that opportunities for non-degree holders are very rare and potentially risky.

I checked in with TEFL guys and confirmed what I'd heard, that a lot of east Asian countries (including China) don't require a degree to teach English. They told me categorically the country is full of schools who will accept English speakers as teachers with only the most basic certificate from them - nothing else required. Your friend should have no problem getting placement somewhere after doing a TEFL. The only thing I can think is that a school of high stature may require a degree instead.

[Siren2011]

However, watch out for the gestapo coming around in the middle of the night, they've been known to upturn your room and rape your girlfriend (or boyfriend) for "interrogation" purposes. There's also having to abide by a curfew. In the bigger cities like Shanghai, all bars close at 6pm and the city lights go out. If you're not indoors by 7 they shoot you on sight.
You have to go into a public square every morning dressed in military attire and sing a communist anthem to a picture of Chairman Mao, but you can continue your lessons thereafter.
Beware of microphones and bugs in all public places, including your home. If you speak ill of communism, you're likely to be abducted and thrown into a pool of acid.
Most of the domestic food and Chinese made products have lead in them, so you're encouraged to grow your own vegetables and wear rubber gloves when handling physical gadgets such as mobile phones and laptops.
Everyone is poor, and you'll have to wait until Sundays for the pollution to clear so you can take some photographs to send to your mates. Just watch out for thieves - most carry knives and will gut you for a decent camera (even one with lead in it.)
They have a McDonalds equivalent called MacRonalds, but they normally only do Dog burgers. It's an acquired taste, but you may not like it.

Were you actually being serious, here?

I checked in with TEFL guys and confirmed what I'd heard, that a lot of east Asian countries (including China) don't require a degree to teach English. They told me categorically the country is full of schools who will accept English speakers as teachers with only the most basic certificate from them - nothing else required.

Have you been on any of those programs yourself, or was your trip to Guilin just recreational? And it is very possible that they were lying to you. Maybe I'm just paranoid, but the thought of paying $1,000 to go through an online course for nothing just grinds my gears.

There are accounts of people who got scammed by TEFL programs, which didn't bother to help the people look for work (or answer the phone, really) immediately upon payment.

[Skykid]

Were you actually being serious, here?

Have you been on any of those programs yourself, or was your trip to Guilin just recreational? And it is very possible that they were lying to you. Maybe I'm just paranoid, but the thought of paying $1,000 to go through an online course for nothing just grinds my gears.

There are accounts of people who got scammed by TEFL programs, which didn't bother to help the people look for work (or answer the phone, really) immediately upon payment.

My trips there were just recreational. Afaik China is desperate for English teachers at the moment, and everything I've heard suggests a good TEFL course and decent certificate will be more than enough to get a placement there (one of the main selling points of TEFL courses is placements abroad without degrees, and I'm pretty sure they advertise China as such.)

I could be completely wrong though, I don't have it as first hand info. Apologies to all if this is the case, I suppose I should double (triple?) check the info.

I didn't know you could be scammed by a TEFL course though, is that for real?

[Siren2011]

Scamming people via TEFL programs seems to be a legitimate business.

http://teflblacklist.blogspot.com/2007/ ... -tefl.html
http://teflblacklist.blogspot.com/2007/ ... lsesl.html
http://teflblacklist.blogspot.com/2007/ ... ional.html

If ten people sign up for online classes a month, that is $10,000 more to help them to stay in business. The majority of people who are scammed DO NOT do their homework on schools they are referred to, teachers that are supposedly experienced (in some cases not) and the program testimonials. I forgot which one, but one TEFL institute deleted comments saying that it was a fraud organization, and that they should have known better from the beginning. That does not mean that every institute is not legit. (In some cases you can tell from the website design, and even the best can be misleading. Just make a convincing website, pay some girl minimum wage to tell people what they want to hear, then drop their ass once payment is received.) I'm sure there are some out there that are, and don't require a Bachelor's in ESL to teach. But this can be a seedy practice, that's why I must find organizations that have satisfied teachers who are able to tell their stories.

[greg]

I called i-to-i, the England-based company I got my certification from. The woman I spoke with said that China is very strict on their visa requirements, and that if anybody is teaching in China without a 4 year degree, they aren't doing it on a regular work visa. Many people go on a tourist visa, get a job, and basically become illegal immigrants.

Skykid, I don't think you're being intentionally dishonest, but I'm still wondering about your information and where the truth lies.

As for TEFL course scams, I'm not sure how those would work, unless you pay for them and receive little to no real education in return. The course I took made me work for it, and I had to have my assignments graded and a few times towars the end, I had to revise my submissions. Some TEFL/TESL certification companyes may not be scams, but they may not be officially recognized by schools. I don't know about my own cert. I'm pretty sure the Oxford seminars are near-universally recognized, and they should be because those are helluva expensive.