Creativity in early computer games

[louisg]

The "non-shmups that got no love" thread got me thinking again about the state of gaming in the 80s. I was struck by the amazing amount of experimentation and creativity in the games listed, and it seemed that in contrast to the NES, the games were a lot more original. The games listed in that other thread really only scratch the surface of weird game ideas for those computer platforms (Sentinel alone being a great example of the kind of off-the-wall concepts you saw on computers that probably would not do very well on console platforms). And on Japanese computer platforms, you saw more thoughtful game ideas originate from there such as Metal Gear, or the KOEI strategy games.

In contrast, NES was already genre-bound and companies seemed to be thinking more about creating something that's a proven money-making formula than wandering off the beaten path and doing something new. For example, pretty much every other game back then for consoles was an on-foot sidescroller where you hit/whipped/shot stuff, fought an end boss, collected loveheart icons, and repeated. While the games were often very tight and polished (when computer action games that *did* want to imitate that style definitely were anything but), they did stick pretty closely to the formula.

So, as much as I like console games, I have to say that the creative geniuses of the time tended to more often be on computer. Or, perhaps, market pressure forced console games to be more homogenized than the "bedroom coder" style of computer game authors.
Discussion? Flamewar?

[Drum]

I think you are right - genres were definitely less codified in the early part of the 80s, though there were definitely some formulas that got thrashed (space invaders
& pac man-style games) and also more direct, shameless clones.
I think you also basically answered your question: where the overheads/risks were lower (personal computers) there tended to be more experimentation, for sure (I cannot explain the creativty in arcades, though - I imagine overheads & risks were pretty high there), and the 'rules' hadn't been laid yet. Older dominant genres got replaced by new dominant genres like the sidescrolling platformer. The sidescrolling platformer had an awful lot more room to be creative within it, so I guess in part the nature of the creativity changed.
The rise of more capable graphics hardware may have also made more abstract gameplay less appealing in general (though a lot of the early 3D games were preposterously creative until Yu Suzuki infected the form, so it can't be attributed to that totally).
Short-term-sighted risk-averse business practices no doubt affected things a lot, so as games became more expensive to produce, often having - *gasp* - several people developing them things definitely got railroaded. That said, a lot of the biggest hits in the early 80s were games that were different, so it may just boil down to 'people are dumb'.
May have had a lot to do with more publishers starting up who were being run by people with more understanding of how business works in general than how the games business in particular works - speculator publishers, basically - whereas before nobody knew how the game business worked so they just threw shit at a wall.
Also, a lot of the early games were designed by one or two people, giving them a bit more individual vision. They also were made by programmers/engineers, who while not normally known for their creativity, were well-suited to designing gameplay systems, liked tinkering, and weren't held back by the need for good graphics (nothing really looked 'good' - with some standout exceptions).

Those are just some rambling thoughts, haven't really considered them very well.

[louisg]

Also, it probably helped that computers *couldn't* really do mid-to-late-80s style action games well in general. A lot of console style C64 games were very lacking. Apple II was even worse. And then there's the MSX, which couldn't even scroll. Once you got later systems like the Amiga or ST which were more capable for tile/sprite games, I think more people were attempting (often badly) to replicate existing arcade game styles. So, maybe necessity is the mother of invention in this case.

There's also the question of the target audience. Back then, older gamers and geeky kids tended to use computers, where mainstream kids (and never adults!) were the target of consoles-- at least in the US.

[Evilmaxwar]

LOL, sentinel, thats one freak game. Yeah most "prototyping" and "original" games appeared on computers and its pretty obvious for all the reasons listed above, still is the case this day. But rules always have exceptions. I can think of a major one instantly:
Herzog Zwei on the Megadrive !
A once of a kind game that is still quite unique to this day yet is arguably the title that started the RTS Genre. A fascinating piece of software really.

Other out of the norm console games i can think of, not as "early" though
Sub Terrania (megadrive)
Krusty's super fun house ( somehow ... lemmings ? )
Act Raiser ( part sim city part platformer , )
Evo ( Snes )

[TransatlanticFoe]

Raid Over Moscow
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_over_Moscow

I loved this on the Speccy. It's quite silly and the concept isn't very creative (lol cold war, kill the Russians), but I really enjoyed how everything was a different style of game but still linked together. It took me ages to work out how to get my planes out of the hangar, but after that it's superb. Scrolling shooter sections where you have to manage your height to attack targets and a frankly insane attack on the Kremlin with a bazooka to get to the nuclear reactor inside.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

The 1st person perspective viewpoint used in the C64 game of "Encounter" was pretty cool for it's time. Featured a silky smooth framerate as well.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Ruldra]

Nowadays developers can't stray away from what works and try new stuff, for many reasons. The main one is that games are now far too much expensive to make. They cost millions and if they aren't successful it'll end up killing the company. You can't really blame them for not being more experimental.

But not all is lost. Indie developers are all over the place now and they're always trying concepts that big companies would never try. Thanks to them we have games like La Mulana, Minecraft, Dwarf Fortress, Spelunky, Touhou etc. Some of them are much better than AAA titles.

[Blackbird]

Yeah, I'm really glad that the indie game community is thriving, especially now that mainstream games have become Hollywood (in every sense of that word). I just wish a few more of them would be a little more ambitious, beyond creating terrible flash games for the web or overtly creating budget clones of popular titles.

[Demetori]

We only ever had an Apple II that my dad had brought home from work with one game on it, Dangerous Dave. I wasn't really aware at the time, what kind of influences these western developers were experimenting from, but you can clearly see the evolution from something like Dangerous Dave to what we see now.

The thing that really caught back then, creativity wise, again using Dangerous Dave as an example. Was the evolution from one iteration to the next, being Dangerous Dave in the Haunted Mansion. I was wondering, what came before things like this? And do you think it would have influenced the likes of Metal Slug and other side-scrolling platform action games.

[EinhanderZwei]

I owned a Speccy and played shit-a-ton games on it, so I can talk about them forever:
- The big motherfucker of space games, ELITE. Seriously... whenever anyone says 'space shooter', there's Wing Commander; but whenever anyone says 'space simulator', EVERYBODY thinks Elite
- Saboteur 2. WOW... Open map instead of a sequence of levels... female protagonist... if she was not a ninja (kunoichi, to be accurate), I'd say that Metroid wasn't really all that original and groundbreaking. But instead we have a precursor to both Metroid and beat 'em ups!
- Catch 23. FPS with wireframe graphics. More RE: Gun Survivor than Wolfenstein/Doom, though
- Rapscallion. The first non-linear adventure game I've ever played; I'd dare to compare it with Metroid
- Vindicator. I suppose, its camera system was inspiration for Alone In The Dark
- The Great Escape. Non-linear stealth adventure game based on a movie with good ol' Charles Bronson
- North Star. Amazing platformer in the vein of old-school Castlevanias, check it out
- Exolon. Arguably, the best run-n-gun on Spec. Key features? Interactive backgrounds and alternate fire
- Turbo Esprit. Before Twisted Metal 2, that was the shit
- Stormlord. God Of War of the eighties - brutal protagonist, barebreasted ladies and the setting based on mythology (Norse in this case)

[Drum]

I owned a Speccy and played shit-a-ton games on it, so I can talk about them forever:
- The big motherfucker of space games, ELITE. Seriously... whenever anyone says 'space shooter', there's Wing Commander; but whenever anyone says 'space simulator', EVERYBODY thinks Elite
- Saboteur 2. WOW... Open map instead of a sequence of levels... female protagonist... if she was not a ninja (kunoichi, to be accurate), I'd say that Metroid wasn't really all that original and groundbreaking. But instead we have a precursor to both Metroid and beat 'em ups!

Saboteur II was released in 1987, Metroid in 1986. Nice try though! If we are strictly talking about female protagonists, Baraduke and Lady Master of Kung Fu were both released in 1985.
Below the Root was a freeform adventure game on the C64 where you could also play as a female character. Now that game is impressive.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Below_the_ ... eo_game%29

[brentsg]

I really dug all the early Infocom text-based adventure games on various computer formats. Great days those were..

Also really loved the Origin RPGs too.

[Herr Schatten]

I really dug all the early Infocom text-based adventure games on various computer formats.

Those, and the ones by Magnetic Scrolls.

[Mortificator]

Yeah most "prototyping" and "original" games appeared on computers and its pretty obvious for all the reasons listed above, still is the case this day. But rules always have exceptions. I can think of a major one instantly:
Herzog Zwei on the Megadrive !

Zwei is just the sequel to Herzog on the MSX, so the Herzog title really does belong in a thread on early computer games.

I'll mention some Spectrum games: Knight Lore, Alien, Ant Attack, and Rebelstar Raiders (which lead to Laser Squad and X-COM).

[EinhanderZwei]

Saboteur II was released in 1987, Metroid in 1986. Nice try though!

Oops... My bad. Though after Saboteur 2, the first Metroid really didn't impress me that much... (it was up to Super Metroid to kick my ass)

[Wonderbanana]

Laser Squad. That is all.

[MadScientist]

Laser Squad. That is all.

Great game.

On a related note Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon: Shadow Wars might not seem like an obvious choice for "must buy 3DS launch title", but... it's a turn based strategy game with Julian Gollop as its lead designer. Wohoo! Still not enough to make me want to buy a 3DS, but it's nice to see him still getting to make these kind of games (even if it is increasingly rare these days).

[dcharlie]

Laser Squad. That is all.

indeed - such an incredible game. The number of different ways you could approach each level was great - opening the doors to Rednix's base and just throwing rocket launcher shots in was a fun tactic

The Sentinel - i already banged on about in the other thread. First time i played it my reaction was "what IS this?!" - once you got into it though, oh god... such a work of genius.

Paradroid was another all time classic too - the original game though, wasn't a big fan of Paradroid 90 for some reason.

Mercenary was another interesting game and probably the only game i've come across where a block of cheese was the best ship in the game.

[Shatterhand]

Laser Squad was indeed awesome. It's a game with infinity replayability. I remember I got the MSX version very late on the life of my MSX, and it came with a bunch of disks with a lot of crap stuff (That was a time when I was getting a *lot* of shit for MSX. demos, hentai disks, japanese adventures...I was getting everything)... at first I saw the bad gfx, I understood nothing of the game and was like "Ok, another shitty game to become paper weight".

For some reason I gave it a 2nd chance, and boy, how I LOVED the game when I understood it properly. I've played a lot of it. It's the only 8 bits version of the game I've played, so for me its still ranks as the best version I've player of it (As all the 16 bits version have cubersome interfaces with no interesting addition to gameplay at all).

And of course, UFO:Enemy Unknown that came many years laters is one of the most amazing games I ever played and everyone should know it. Though the simplicity of the single missions of Laser Squad can't be beaten.

[NRS]

http://www.archive.org/details/Computer1984_4

Some interesting stuff there, especially the bit on Activision's Space Shuttle.

[ED-057]

Laser Squad looks cool, I`ll have to check it out.

The Daiva series of games were somewhat original and elaborate I think. I got Daiva 4 for MSX from ebay a while back, and when I played it, it immediately reminded me of Master of Orion. Although the gameplay is different, the map of the star systems and even the representations of the ship fleets are similar.

[louisg]

If you like Laser Squad, don't forget to check out Breach 2 also

So, I've been playing Impossible Mission a fair bit on the C64 DTV. The game is pretty brilliant; I like that you need both wits and some serious platforming skill to finish it. It's almost like chessboxing. Even during the action parts, you need to think about every move. And the puzzle is so interesting that it makes what passes for puzzles in current action/adventures seem cheesy and uninspired (fetch this key, fetch that key, push a block a couple feet, etc).

[brentsg]

It got ports to a lot of different platforms years ago, but did anyone else play Miner 2049'er? It was a great game.