shmups.system11.org

GateofThunderforceIII · Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:06 pm

Okay, just got this little thing and bought SSF4 3D, Ridge Racer 3D, and don't laugh...Asphalt 3D. Really Nintendo? All that money you've made from DS and Wii and you release something that is grossly underpowered as the 3DS? RR 3D doesn't even run at 60 fps unlike the PSP RRs. And still no second analog nub? I have to say, with something as obsolete as this, I hope it doesn't last as long as the original DS. I'll gladly eat my words if there's much more power in this thing than I'm thinking. But I'm also thinking Wii's successor better not be as powerful as the 360 at best. Come on, Nintendo!

Drum · Post by **Drum** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:35 pm

don't play racing games and fighting games on handhelds, don't complain about handhelds being underpowered - this is the path to victory
The power gap between consoles/PCs and handhelds is what keeps 2D and turn-based gameplay alive (see also: downloadable games). I am quite happy with it being that way, keep the more realistic stuff/mutiplayer stuff quarantined to home machines where it can be at its best.
Control divergence in handhelds is also nice. I don't really want twin sticks, it'll just be uncomfortable on a handheld and is a barrier to game divergence.

I have never touched a 3DS and have no intention of buying one - not with the games announced. Tho Rocket Slime and a new Mario by the Galaxy team look like they could be cool (but the Galaxy team should be allowed to do something else, they have earned that much)

EDIT: Maybe I put that a little strongly. I mean, I generally want a handheld I buy to be reasonably powerful so the games on it can be all they can be. But I also like the gap in power, and think that generates creativity and more abstract approaches to gameplay. Obviously PSP was more powerful than DS and it still got plenty of turn-based games/2D games because of that gap between it and consoles, and those games frequently were better on PSP than they would have been on DS. But I think PSP/3DS level is a good level for them to stay at, otherwise the gameplay is likely to be more anemic as it will just cost too much to make those sorts of games look up to par - unless they're vector-based or something.

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:43 pm

Drum wrote:I have never touched a 3DS and have no intention of buying one - not with the games announced.

Yeah, for now I'm going to keep an eye on it and see what gets announced down the line (at the moment the only thing that really has my attention is Cave Story, though like most of the rest of the system's library so far it's already available elsewhere): whatever the system's inherent abilities/features, it always ends upcoming down to whether or not it has stuff on it that I want to play.

ZOM · Post by **ZOM** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:14 pm

Yup, was screaming "day one!" the time this little machine was announced, but with the current library I'm not touching it. yet.
The same can't be said about the NGP(shitty name), with falcom already having announced stuff for it.

szycag · Post by **szycag** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:30 pm

Not too tempted to get one right this second, it really needs a remodel with a better battery life and some more unique titles.

Blackbird · Post by **Blackbird** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:34 pm

Nintendo hasn't been known as a graphics leader in some time. Buying a Nintendo console and then complaining that the graphics aren't cutting edge is kinda lame =P. You want graphics, get a PC or a PS3. I actually like the handheld consoles because their graphics are pleasantly retro. I am occasionally reminded of the golden age of 16 bit gaming.

Regarding the 3DS, I'm not in a rush to get it. None of the launch titles really appeal to me, and it's quite expensive. I will just hope that PSP and DS game prices drop a bit as a result, and enjoy picking up "obsolete" last gen games for cheap.

I'll probably wait for the refresh/upgrade model and see if the price comes down and the battery life improves.

GateofThunderforceIII · Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:59 pm

Blackbird wrote:Nintendo hasn't been known as a graphics leader in some time. Buying a Nintendo console and then complaining that the graphics aren't cutting edge is kinda lame =P. You want graphics, get a PC or a PS3. I actually like the handheld consoles because their graphics are pleasantly retro. I am occasionally reminded of the golden age of 16 bit gaming.

Regarding the 3DS, I'm not in a rush to get it. None of the launch titles really appeal to me, and it's quite expensive. I will just hope that PSP and DS game prices drop a bit as a result, and enjoy picking up "obsolete" last gen games for cheap.

I'll probably wait for the refresh/upgrade model and see if the price comes down and the battery life improves.

I think Nintendo was trying to be at or near the forefront of technology (N64, Gamecube) until they gave up with the Wii. And now the 3DS. I love old and old style games myself, but if you're going to release "new" hardware at $250, at least make it a little better than what is already out there (PSP). 3DS feels more like DS1.5. This is the most underwhelming new hardware experience for me. And I'm far from expecting PS3 or 360 in a little box. Hopefully Nintendo and 3DS devs pull out some great games for this thing...And sitting on the fence was the smart thing to do.

Blackbird · Post by **Blackbird** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:19 am

In my opinion, the best reason to own a Nintendo console is simply to gain access to Nintendo's first party titles. After all, Nintendo's stuff is generally top notch. Mario Galaxy, Twilight Princess, etc... Nintendo always manages to make their games look better than the hardware they are on, and the gameplay will be superb.

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:44 am

GateofThunderforceIII wrote: I think Nintendo was trying to be at or near the forefront of technology (N64, Gamecube) until they gave up with the Wii.

They didn't give up. In fact, it's very unlikely being at the forefront of technology has ever been high on their agenda. Nintendo's hardware philosophy has always been the re-application of affordable existing technologies in innovative ways (Nintendo DS and Wii being prime examples). Unlike other companies (Sony, MS, Sega) who pioneer new tech from scratch, Nintendo refuse to sell machines at losses in a bid to make money back on software - they generally aim to produce technology where they can profit on both.

Drum · Post by **Drum** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:32 am

GateofThunderforceIII wrote:
Blackbird wrote:Nintendo hasn't been known as a graphics leader in some time. Buying a Nintendo console and then complaining that the graphics aren't cutting edge is kinda lame =P. You want graphics, get a PC or a PS3. I actually like the handheld consoles because their graphics are pleasantly retro. I am occasionally reminded of the golden age of 16 bit gaming.

Regarding the 3DS, I'm not in a rush to get it. None of the launch titles really appeal to me, and it's quite expensive. I will just hope that PSP and DS game prices drop a bit as a result, and enjoy picking up "obsolete" last gen games for cheap.

I'll probably wait for the refresh/upgrade model and see if the price comes down and the battery life improves.
I think Nintendo was trying to be at or near the forefront of technology (N64, Gamecube) until they gave up with the Wii. And now the 3DS. I love old and old style games myself, but if you're going to release "new" hardware at $250, at least make it a little better than what is already out there (PSP). 3DS feels more like DS1.5. This is the most underwhelming new hardware experience for me. And I'm far from expecting PS3 or 360 in a little box. Hopefully Nintendo and 3DS devs pull out some great games for this thing...And sitting on the fence was the smart thing to do.

Come on, the 3DS is clearly more powerful than the PSP. It's roughly PS2/XBox/GC-level which makes it a standard generation ahead of the DS like the DS was over the GBA. I realise I am arguing with somebody who actually owns one, and you were just saying that's what it feels like but be real here. You have experienced the PSP and seen what the NGP offers, so you are understandably unimpressed with the 3DS, that's all. $250 is pretty damn steep though. Remains to be seen if it's worth it for the customer and for Nintendo.

Vyxx · Post by **Vyxx** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:56 am

I'm waiting to purchase next years 3DSlite.

Heartwork · Post by **Heartwork** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:27 am

Really? Nintendo has given up on hardware progression? This is the same Nintendo that just released a handheld system that displays 3D graphics without requiring glasses that we're talking about, right?

I played a 3DS for the first time today. It looks amazing. I'm going to wait to buy one until more titles come out, but the technology of the hardware is top-notch.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:32 am

Skykid wrote:They didn't give up. In fact, it's very unlikely being at the forefront of technology has ever been high on their agenda. Nintendo's hardware philosophy has always been the re-application of affordable existing technologies in innovative ways (Nintendo DS and Wii being prime examples). Unlike other companies (Sony, MS, Sega) who pioneer new tech from scratch, Nintendo refuse to sell machines at losses in a bid to make money back on software - they generally aim to produce technology where they can profit on both.

I think the way to explain Nintendo being on the forefront of technology is that since the N64 era with Project Reality and the "friendly" controller, they're trying to create the ultimate freeform virtual game. Pokemon was a push for the interconnectivity end of games (while still presenting a robust one-player mode).

DS brought physical manipulation into play and Wii's remote concept expanded upon that further having controls from buttons to real world motions. Even though the concept was quite old, it made use of the latest technology to produce a more direct connection from the player to the game. And now, 3DS can produce a world with perceived depth.

So while Sony and MS seem to be going straight for brute force technological progress within quantitative means (although NGP has that questionable touchpad), Nintendo is actively trying to expand the realms of the video gaming medium. The only beef I have with Nintendo is that as much as they're polishing the technology and have convinced others of its originality, nothing as of yet has been revolutionary for the world. Every aspect they've used has been done before, albeit with less success and hoopla. But I find that Nintendo is also moving towards more revolutionary progress: having 3D games is decades-old but having 3D games without glasses is leading the world, which is commendable.

As of now, I also don't see how the 3DS is more powerful than the PSP but I would love to be proven otherwise (since I've also bought one and don't see how it competes quantitatively). It has less resolution and its launch game visuals don't scream (or even whisper) "improvement." Everything seems to be hinging on the 3D. I'm fine with that but let's give credit where it's due.

Khan · Post by **Khan** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:51 am

only way im getting the 3ds is when I see more games and the price hits a reasonable amount, £200 for something probably as powerful as a ps2 thats supposed to be the new generation of portable gaming is dissappointing.

I'm definantly looking forward to the NGP because of how much the psp impressed the hell out of me so much so that I bought 2. The biggest draw for me was the homebrew and emulation available on the platform it took dark alex to truly unlock the handhelds potential

I mean such a small handheld playing playstation 1 games at near perfect emulation snes,neogeo,cps2,megadrive ect ect. add to that some of the psp's own library of games like tekken 5 I knew right away I had to get one :p

If Sony can give us a similar machine with boosted specs the mind wanders as to what it could be truly capable of....

Ex-Cyber · Post by **Ex-Cyber** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:03 am

Skykid wrote:They didn't give up. In fact, it's very unlikely being at the forefront of technology has ever been high on their agenda. Nintendo's hardware philosophy has always been the re-application of affordable existing technologies in innovative ways (Nintendo DS and Wii being prime examples). Unlike other companies (Sony, MS, Sega) who pioneer new tech from scratch, Nintendo refuse to sell machines at losses in a bid to make money back on software - they generally aim to produce technology where they can profit on both.

This. Most Nintendo systems can be roughly understood as gaming-optimized and cost-reduced versions of computer tech from the previous decade (though, to be fair, so can most other pre-2000 consoles).

Heartwork wrote:Really? Nintendo has given up on hardware progression? This is the same Nintendo that just released a handheld system that displays 3D graphics without requiring glasses that we're talking about, right?

Sharp has been making the "3D without glasses" screens for at least 5 years, but Sharp products using them have pretty much bombed. The 3DS screen isn't a technological revolution, it's a marketing revolution.

Blackbird · Post by **Blackbird** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:10 am

Vyxx wrote:I'm waiting to purchase next years 3DSlite.

Hehe, yeah =).

Skykid's point about Nintendo configuring it's consoles so that it can profit on both hardware and software sales is astute.

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:57 am

Why didn't they wait to launch this thing until they had some sort of game you'd buy other than to keep your 3DS from being a paper weight? I want the Resident Evil game but that is about all I've seen so far.

headcaseGames · Post by **headcaseGames** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:33 am

I too am sort of surprised that the launch lineup is as weak-seeming as it is. You'd think it would be easy to get a few more lower-brow "gimmicky" titles out at launch to showcase the 3D effects. If they did some Starfox or F-Zero type games, even if the rendering tech was a bit old, I think it would really resonate with people. That being said, fair enough that you can't really judge a whole new system right as it is launching. I am definitely interested to pick one up down the road (if titles like I mentioned do show up) because it really looks like they are could concentrate on making "fun, arcadey type games" given the format. I'm still rather excited for it

dcharlie · Post by **dcharlie** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:54 am

Still enjoying the system - though a little disappointed that Surechigai RPG just repeats and doesn't introduce new areas or mix up the enemies a bit.

Out of all the JPN games to date, surprised most by Gundam 3D which is solid and pretty fun, if simple. Was hoping for DOA but now it looks like it's in weird launch limbo for us

Heartwork · Post by **Heartwork** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:37 am

headcaseGames wrote:I too am sort of surprised that the launch lineup is as weak-seeming as it is. You'd think it would be easy to get a few more lower-brow "gimmicky" titles out at launch to showcase the 3D effects. If they did some Starfox or F-Zero type games, even if the rendering tech was a bit old, I think it would really resonate with people. That being said, fair enough that you can't really judge a whole new system right as it is launching. I am definitely interested to pick one up down the road (if titles like I mentioned do show up) because it really looks like they are could concentrate on making "fun, arcadey type games" given the format. I'm still rather excited for it

Maaaan, a new F-Zero game in 3D would be amaaaazing.

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:19 am

Ganelon wrote:
Skykid wrote:They didn't give up. In fact, it's very unlikely being at the forefront of technology has ever been high on their agenda. Nintendo's hardware philosophy has always been the re-application of affordable existing technologies in innovative ways (Nintendo DS and Wii being prime examples). Unlike other companies (Sony, MS, Sega) who pioneer new tech from scratch, Nintendo refuse to sell machines at losses in a bid to make money back on software - they generally aim to produce technology where they can profit on both.
I think the way to explain Nintendo being on the forefront of technology is that since the N64 era with Project Reality and the "friendly" controller, they're trying to create the ultimate freeform virtual game. Pokemon was a push for the interconnectivity end of games (while still presenting a robust one-player mode).

I respect Nintendo as a business, they never lost sight of their overarching goals. They always aspired to be a 'family' oriented games company (Family Computer anyone?), and the Wii and DS are the ultimate realisation of this idea. Miyamoto was interviewed around the time Pikmin was released and said that Nintendo were always working towards engaging players through simpler methods. He said in the same interview that his idea of the ultimate game would be one that only had one button - a few years later the Wii comes along, essentially a single input interface.

With the 3DS, I feel for the first time that there's little except the gimmick. DS had touchscreen, Wii had motion. 3DS is an impressive technology, but it doesn't do much except look unique.

In terms of graphics power, it's definitely ahead of the PSP though. SFIV (bar the backgrounds) is much closer to a 360 than a PSP.

JoshF · Post by **JoshF** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:35 am

Heartwork wrote:Maaaan, a new F-Zero game in 3D would be amaaaazing.

On a big screen hi-def TV? Yes it would. On a portable? I think I'll stick to my Batman hologram card for those kinds of overwhelming visual experiences.

Skykid you should take into account that Miyamoto is probably doing a little of that George Lucas "it was all part of the master plan" BS. There's no reason Nintendo couldn't have made a platformer in the NES days where you don't die and spend time decorating a house, other than that it would've gotten them laughed off the face of the earth back then. Instead, he made Super Mario Bros. 2 and Zelda 2. They used to make to make games for kids and adults, now it's only for the margins of that (toddlers and octogenarians) Miyamoto, like Miyazaki, are playing this to go down like a Santa figure.

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:50 am

JoshF wrote:
Heartwork wrote:Maaaan, a new F-Zero game in 3D would be amaaaazing.
On a big screen hi-def TV? Yes it would. On a portable? I think I'll stick to my Batman hologram card for those kinds of overwhelming visual experiences.

Skykid you should take into account that Miyamoto is probably doing a little of that George Lucas "it was all part of the master plan" BS. There's no reason Nintendo couldn't have made a platformer in the NES days where you don't die and spend time decorating a house, other than that it would've gotten them laughed off the face of the earth back then. Instead, he made Super Mario Bros. 2 and Zelda 2. They used to make to make games for kids and adults, now it's only for the margins of that (toddlers and octogenarians) Miyamoto, like Miyazaki, are playing this to go down like a Santa figure.

The Miyamoto interview I quoted was from ten years ago, and at a point when they were far from market leaders, so I think you've misunderstood/misread the sentiment there.

I agree it's a romantic notion to suggest Nintendo have always stuck to a particular ideal, and the current market (a facet of which they created, own, and have enormous success with) is the fruition of that. But you can't ignore the fact that simplicity and family oriented gaming has always been part of their agenda.

maxlords · Post by **maxlords** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:05 pm

Just got one yesterday with no games cause the launch lineup is asstacular. That being said, I think it's pretty damned cool. With the games it comes with alone it was pretty fun

I only paid like $50 for mine though...definitely wouldn't have paid full price.

Post by **spadgy** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:17 pm

The thumbpad is great for going back to Ketsui Death Label!

I also had a lot of fun last night with the 3D camera (the best bit) taking photos of Iceland out of a plane window. It's amazing that it can add 3D to proper landscape shots.

Other than that, I only have Ridge Racer - great for nostalgia, but gains nothing from the 3D.

And sadly, the 3D makes me feel a bit dodgy unless I have it set to very close to 2D. Still, it does seem a reality that the longer you spend with it, the easier on the eye it is.

Barrakketh · Post by **Barrakketh** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:27 pm

Ex-Cyber wrote:
Skykid wrote:They didn't give up. In fact, it's very unlikely being at the forefront of technology has ever been high on their agenda. Nintendo's hardware philosophy has always been the re-application of affordable existing technologies in innovative ways (Nintendo DS and Wii being prime examples). Unlike other companies (Sony, MS, Sega) who pioneer new tech from scratch, Nintendo refuse to sell machines at losses in a bid to make money back on software - they generally aim to produce technology where they can profit on both.
This. Most Nintendo systems can be roughly understood as gaming-optimized and cost-reduced versions of computer tech from the previous decade (though, to be fair, so can most other pre-2000 consoles).

To quote old man Yamauchi:

People do not play with the game machine itself. They play with the software, and they are forced to purchase a game machine in order to use the software. Therefore the price of the machine should be as cheap as possible.

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:18 pm

Barrakketh wrote: To quote old man Yamauchi:

People do not play with the game machine itself. They play with the software, and they are forced to purchase a game machine in order to use the software. Therefore the price of the machine should be as cheap as possible.

Shrewd bastard, genius businessman - the best the games industry has ever known imo.

E. Randy Dupre · Post by **E. Randy Dupre** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:21 pm

GateofThunderforceIII wrote:I think Nintendo was trying to be at or near the forefront of technology (N64, Gamecube) until they gave up with the Wii. And now the 3DS.

No, they haven't. Not in the handheld market. Their entire philosophy with handheld consoles has *always* been to go for the most affordable option by using older technology in innovative ways, right from the Game & Watch up to the DS. The tech strategy with the 3DS is no different frrom what they've done before. Gunpei Yokoi even coined a phrase for it, which I can't remember off the top of my head, but I'm sure somebody else will.

(edit: Lateral Thinking of Withered Technology)

And if you think the 3DS needs a second analogue nub, I think you've possibly missed the point somewhat. Sony going for two analogue sticks *and* a touchscreen is hilarious overkill.

TransatlanticFoe · Post by **TransatlanticFoe** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:23 pm

The reported battery life alone, even without 3D on, is pathetic enough for me to dismiss it straight away.

Given that the PC port of SSFIV was reportedly abandoned over piracy concerns, I'm hoping that they give it a Wii port. Tatsunoko vs Capcom was brilliant, so surely the Wii can do SSFIV with a similar engine? Fingers crossed the new Resi goes multi-platform too, even if I have to wait a while. Not in the slightest bit tempted by this 3D gimmick for such a whopping price and limited portability due to inadequate battery technology.

Post by **spadgy** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:31 pm

E. Randy Dupre wrote:And if you think the 3DS needs a second analogue nub, I think you've possibly missed the point somewhat. Sony going for two analogue sticks *and* a touchscreen is hilarious overkill.

Having very briefly held an NGP (with the power off

) I can say its form factor and twin sticks felt lovely. Little to go on though!

TransatlanticFoe wrote:The reported battery life alone, even without 3D on, is pathetic enough for me to dismiss it straight away.

So far mine seems to have been great so far as battery life's concerned. Hard to judge though; I've been playing in little bits and pieces everywhere. Still - I've nailed loads of Ridge Racer 3D and done plenty of picture taking, and had it on sleep lots, all with very little charging.

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