Definitive 16-Bit Toaplan shooter?

CIT · Post by **CIT** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:10 pm

I was wondering what is considered the best Toaplan game for a 16-Bit system.

I want to get a Toaplan vertical scroller, but as you know they're all rather similar, so it's hard to make a decision.

I'm thinking Tatsujin for Megadrive, but isn't the PCE version supposed to better (and much more expensive)?

Or should I just forget about 16-Bit and shell out for Toaplan Shooting Battle Vol. 1 on PlayStation?

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:14 pm

Yes, exactly. Forget 16-bit and get Shooting Battle. There is zero percent chance of regretting it; awesome compilation.

GIANT SQUID · Post by **GIANT SQUID** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:19 pm

what exactly is on that compilation??

llabnip · Post by **llabnip** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:27 pm

Toaplan Shooting Battle (vol 1) is amazing on the PSX. Tiger Heli, Twin Cobra and Kyukyoku Tiger are nearly perfect and you get 3 games (ok... Twin Cobra and KT are nearly identical other than the removing of restart points but that's hardly an issue for these great games).

However, you asked about 16-Bit Toaplan shooters and I'm assuming you mean Toalan conversions to 16-bit console platforms. For that, you will need either a Megadrive or PC-Engine. For verticals... The Megadrive version of Fire Shark is amazing (bump it to Hard if you want more challenge). Twin Cobra is also well done. Truxton is well done. Twin Hawk (Daisen Pu) is a very underrated shooter from the masters at Toaplan. Heck, you pretty much need them all - they are similiar in spirit since they came from the great shooter minds at Toaplan but if you want classic Toaplan goodness in vertical format for the 16-bit generation I'd recommend... Truxton... not wait, Fire Shark. No Truxton.

Get them all. IMO, Toaplan still isn't matched to this day.

Check out www.toaplan.com for lots of info on Toaplan's legacy.

zinger · Post by **zinger** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:16 pm

Slap Fight (MD) is amazing (it even has an extra scenario), but it's VERY expensive ($150-200). I haven't gotten it myself yet though, so I've only tried it in an emulator, which means it could have some slow down.
If not, I'd say this is the best Toaplan game ever.

DC906270 · Post by **DC906270** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:06 pm

You're forgetting Hellfire. For my money, the best Toaplan conversions would be Tatsujin/Truxton or Hellfire for MD/Genesis. A pretty nifty/rareish game to get also would be VV/Grindstormer, which is a more modern style Toaplan shmup.

TGK · Post by **TGK** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:51 pm

I think Hellfire and Tatsujin are both way too hard to be enjoyed unless you are into that kind of thing.

Did anyone mention Zero Wing? Well, I would recommend it, if just for the music.

it290 · Post by **it290** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:59 pm

Hard? All Toaplan games are hard (except maybe the Genesis version of Fire Shark). I find Grindstormer to be the hardest of the console ports I've played.... not to mention Twin Cobra. I like all the Toaplan ports to the Genesis except for that one, as personally I feel they wrecked the gameplay in the conversion.

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:09 pm

Brian wrote:Yes, exactly. Forget 16-bit and get Shooting Battle. There is zero percent chance of regretting it; awesome compilation.

Umm, if you forget 16-bit, you're missing out on the ports of Twin Cobra, Truxton, Hellfire, and Fire Shark which can all be found for cheap. Twin Cobra is hit or miss (I didn't like it at first, but once I got used to it a bit more, I ended up liking it quite a bit) becuase it has less screen space than the arcade (though the patterns were changed to compensate for this) and very smart enemy AI that aims for where it thinks you will go. Truxton is a fine port with toned down difficulty from the arcade, which in this case, isn't a bad thing since the game is still extremely hard.

Fire Shark is my favorite of the Toaplan ports on the Genesis. Very fast paced and very fun. The screen dimisions are well done with plenty of room to manuver and the graphics look as close to the arcade game as the Genesis can get.

Anyway, the Toaplan Shooting Battle will cost you 70-80 dollars and it will cost from 50-100 for a Japanese PS One that will be needed to play it (as far as I know, it doesn't work with boot discs. It doesn't work properly on PS2 either). The Genesis ports that came to the US will only cost you 20 dollars tops and about 4-6 dollars incomplete.

captain ahar · Post by **captain ahar** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:38 pm

truxton on genesis is incredible, just make sure you play with full speed up. and likewise, Kyukyoku Tiger on pc engine was really great. others i have not played unfortunately.

Kiel · Post by **Kiel** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:47 pm

No mention of Musha Aleste? Not a port but 16 bit for the MD.

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:49 pm

That wasn't Toaplan, was it? Or did Compile somehow get them involved?

zinger · Post by **zinger** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:50 pm

Kiel wrote:No mention of Musha Aleste? Not a port but 16 bit for the MD.

That's a Compile game.

Kiel · Post by **Kiel** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:54 pm

It says Compile/Toaplan on my box.

CMoon · Post by **CMoon** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:18 pm

I love Musha to bits, but it is a COMPILE game. Everyone who's played it surely must know.

Lots of odds and ends:

My favorite 16 bit toaplan shooters are Fire Shark and Twin Hawks (Daisen Pu--thanks llabnip!) While Truxton truly is an great port, these two others will not leave the modern shmup fan feeling cold. While truxton starts with what is seemingly minutes of inactivity before the bullet hell shows up (and even then, it often comes as a surprise); these other two just don't let up from the very beginning. Fireshark I think might even tie with Batsugun for top Toaplan shmup ever. For a late 80's shmup, Fireshark is terribly modern with a fast plane and fast enemies and waves of bullets that make the connection the toaplan-homage in Raiden terribly unambigous. Fireshark might actually be my favorite shmup ever, or at least the idea of it is so rudimentary in my mind as everything a good shmup should be.

Twin Hawks isn't quite Fireshark, but it actually compensates for some of the problems that other toaplan shmups have--namely the one death and you should give up syndrome. For the first time, one power-up icon actually significantly powers you up (you don't need 3 of 'em), and your plane is quite decent to begin with. The hyper-versitile helper planes give the game an extra dimension since they can be used as bombs, shields, kamakazi fighters, or just extra shooting power. Level design is also great too--just as good (maybe better actually) than Fire shark.

I think short of Batsugun, these two games are as good as toaplan gets--obviously I highly recommend them.

Diabollokus · Post by **Diabollokus** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:22 pm

Hmmm I'll have to try twin hawk 2nite have it stashed somewhere, played it a bit but no one on this site seemed to mention it.

Its hellfire for me Love the level design particularly stage 4 forest and the 4 way weapon system was great not to mention enemy design and nice graphics been a great 2 player game if genesis had that version. very similar graphical style to zerowing.

Played fireshark quite hard a few weeks back definetly my 2nd fave vertical behind musha the set pieces with the little green soldiers and sharks rock.

I would have said grindstormer/V5 if it wasn't so bloody hard, wins hardest toaplan shmup.

it290 · Post by **it290** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 12:05 am

Grind Stormer/VV is hard as hell, no doubt about it, but I think Tatsujin (arcade) and Tatsujin 2 are even more difficult.

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 12:30 am

llabnip wrote:Toaplan Shooting Battle (vol 1) is amazing on the PSX. Tiger Heli, Twin Cobra and Kyukyoku Tiger are nearly perfect and you get 3 games (ok... Twin Cobra and KT are nearly identical other than the removing of restart points but that's hardly an issue for these great games).

However, you asked about 16-Bit Toaplan shooters and I'm assuming you mean Toalan conversions to 16-bit console platforms. For that, you will need either a Megadrive or PC-Engine. For verticals... The Megadrive version of Fire Shark is amazing (bump it to Hard if you want more challenge). Twin Cobra is also well done. Truxton is well done. Twin Hawk (Daisen Pu) is a very underrated shooter from the masters at Toaplan. Heck, you pretty much need them all - they are similiar in spirit since they came from the great shooter minds at Toaplan but if you want classic Toaplan goodness in vertical format for the 16-bit generation I'd recommend... Truxton... not wait, Fire Shark. No Truxton.

Get them all. IMO, Toaplan still isn't matched to this day.

Check out www.toaplan.com for lots of info on Toaplan's legacy.

Keep in mind, though, that Toaplan Shooting Battle is REALLY finicky about what PS1 mods/boot discs you use with it. If you have a JP PS1, then you won't have to worry, of course.

Flying Shark goes hands down as the best Toaplan shmup ever! It did appear on the FM Towns Marty, and though I've never played it on that platform, it's probably 99% arcade accurate.

Next I would say Fire Shark AMAZING arcade to Genesis shmup conversion; perhaps the most amazing on the whole system!

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 12:55 am

I find Daisenpu/Twin Hawk better on PCE, for sound reasons. But either way, underrated game.

CIT · Post by **CIT** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 1:02 am

Okay, it's settled then, I'm gonna get Fire Shark and Tatsujin for Megadrive.

If I have enough fun with those I'm gonna track down Kyuukyoku Tiger for PCE or the Toaplan Shooting Battle if I can find it for cheap. I have a japanese PlayStation btw, so no problem with imports.

RE: Musha Aleste

Like all Aleste games this is a Compile develped game. Toaplan just published it.

RE: Hellfire

I already own Hellfire and don't really like it at all. Too slow and the weapon switching system is bothersome IMO.

Mainly I'm looking for a good, fast-paced vert scroller, since that is what Toaplan are most famous for anyway. So yeah, I guess I'll go with Fire Shark.

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 1:18 am

Remember to set fire shark from default to hard...easy's too boringish, unless you're planning playing a long time

CMoon · Post by **CMoon** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 1:47 am

Neon wrote:Remember to set fire shark from default to hard...easy's too boringish, unless you're planning playing a long time

Yup, 1cc'd easy with little difficulty; normal definitely kicks it up several notches (not worrying about hard yet). Also, make sure while your changing the difficulty to turn on auto-fire as well; will save you a lot of stress.

Daisen pu incidentlly can be had for pretty cheap on ebay; so if you can play import genesis titles, it is definitely worth your time. Still, Fireshark can be had for pennies--what a no brainer...

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 1:56 am

Yes, how could I forget Daisenpu! But if you ever do get it, get either the HuCard, or MegaDrive rev.-I know the PCE CD rev. has extra stages, but I really didn't like the remixed soundtrack-the tunes just do not suit the game at all, IMO.

CMoon · Post by **CMoon** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 2:05 am

Megadrive version seems to go for about $15-30, which to me feels great for such an excellent shmup! Also the genny model 3 doesn't have a physical region lock-out, and with no software lockout, I think pretty much any megadrive shmup (japanese or not) will play (another handy tip from llabnip!)

All in all I am amazed that some of the old toaplan games (especially fireshark) don't get noted more--though I suppose raiden has an almost artificial noteriety because it has a port on almost every system AND it seemed to be in every arcade, EVERYWHERE.

CIT · Post by **CIT** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 2:33 am

CMoon wrote:Megadrive version seems to go for about $15-30, which to me feels great for such an excellent shmup! Also the genny model 3 doesn't have a physical region lock-out, and with no software lockout, I think pretty much any megadrive shmup (japanese or not) will play (another handy tip from llabnip!)

All in all I am amazed that some of the old toaplan games (especially fireshark) don't get noted more--though I suppose raiden has an almost artificial noteriety because it has a port on almost every system AND it seemed to be in every arcade, EVERYWHERE.

Hmm, Raiden isn't a Toaplan shmup though. Although it is rather similar.

As for playing imports, don't forget, I live in Europe, and imorts have always been more common here anyway, mainly because of the 50/60 Hertz issues and the general lower number of releases compared to US and Japan. In fact, all my systems are Japanese, and I basically only buy Japanese games anyway.

CMoon · Post by **CMoon** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 2:37 am

Seven Force wrote:
Hmm, Raiden isn't a Toaplan shmup though. Although it is rather similar.

I meant that Raiden has always overshadowed Toaplan (everyone knows Raiden, including people who don't even like shmups); but Raiden is so deeply rooted in the toaplan tradition that in a fair and just world, Toaplan games would be well known and respected. Instead, they are all relegated to obscurity.

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 2:52 am

CMoon wrote:
Seven Force wrote:
Hmm, Raiden isn't a Toaplan shmup though. Although it is rather similar.

I meant that Raiden has always overshadowed Toaplan (everyone knows Raiden, including people who don't even like shmups); but Raiden is so deeply rooted in the toaplan tradition that in a fair and just world, Toaplan games would be well known and respected. Instead, they are all relegated to obscurity.

Very true, and all the more reason I'm thankfull for www.toaplan.com ! Those guys just rock! I seriously wish they'd put out some Toaplan-based t-shirts, though. I could go for a blue one with the Toaplan logo in gold myself!

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:05 am

BrianC wrote:
Brian wrote:Yes, exactly. Forget 16-bit and get Shooting Battle. There is zero percent chance of regretting it; awesome compilation.
Umm, if you forget 16-bit, you're missing out on the ports of Twin Cobra, Truxton, Hellfire, and Fire Shark which can all be found for cheap. Twin Cobra is hit or miss (I didn't like it at first, but once I got used to it a bit more, I ended up liking it quite a bit) becuase it has less screen space than the arcade (though the patterns were changed to compensate for this) and very smart enemy AI that aims for where it thinks you will go. Truxton is a fine port with toned down difficulty from the arcade, which in this case, isn't a bad thing since the game is still extremely hard.

Fire Shark is my favorite of the Toaplan ports on the Genesis. Very fast paced and very fun. The screen dimisions are well done with plenty of room to manuver and the graphics look as close to the arcade game as the Genesis can get.

Anyway, the Toaplan Shooting Battle will cost you 70-80 dollars and it will cost from 50-100 for a Japanese PS One that will be needed to play it (as far as I know, it doesn't work with boot discs. It doesn't work properly on PS2 either). The Genesis ports that came to the US will only cost you 20 dollars tops and about 4-6 dollars incomplete.

Dude, I only meant if you had no games from Toaplan, as I believe this guy does not or why bother with this thread, start with the cream of the crop.

maxlords · Post by **maxlords** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 2:19 am

I've got a complete Jp Fire Shark for trade btw

And I'd say overall, my favorite would be Hellfire for the PC Engine Super CD system. All the goodness of Hellfire, but with rapid fire buttons!

Hellfire = unplayably hard without auto-fire! lol

Other than that....um...probably Truxton IMO. And I hated Slap Fight (though I played the arcade version). SO not worth the admission fee for the MD IMO.

CIT · Post by **CIT** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 1:35 pm

OK, I checked out a couple of roms of Megadrive porst last night, here are my impressions:

Tatsujin/Truxton: Hard as hell, but nice big guns once you get powered up. The style almost reminds me of an Amiga shmup, but I'm not sure I like it. The main ship and the enemies all kind of look like props out of Dr. Who.

Kyuukyoku Tiger/Twin Cobra: Technically a nice port, but the difficulty is astounding. A lot of enemies take several shots to kill, which gives them enough time to get up close and fire at short range - ouch! I better look out for the PCE version on this one.

Daisenpuu/Twin Hawk: The rom didn't really work for me, as the scrolling was all messed up, but I liked what I saw. Nice detailed graphics and the music was great. This one looks like a keeper, but I think the PCE CD is probably the best version, no?

Same! Same! Same!/Fire Shark: Definitely a really fun game and very well balanced, although I didn't find the graphics and tunes as good as in Twin Hawk. I'd say this is a sum-is-greater-than-its-parts type game.

Slap Fight MD: This one is a tough call. The original Slap Fight is extremely old school 80s and I really don't like the fact that your regular shot doesn't travel through to the end of the screen. The bright graphics are also kind of an eye sore, so I quickly switched to the much more fancy "MD mode" with different levels and redone graphics. Gameplay is very fast and full of bullets, and there's a Gradius type power up system. The game's main gimmick is that you can add "wings" to the ship instead of options, making it wider and wider. Kind of cool at first, but it quickly becomes apparent that you just can't dodge anything anymore with a ship 1/3 of the width of the screen, and your wings soon get blasted off again by the enemy bullet hail.
While I was playing it I noticed how great the music was, then it suddenly occured to me why that was the case - the third level music is a total rip of "Mechanical Base" from Gradius III. How could they get away with this!? (Or did I just get a rom with a music patch!?)
Anyway, a decent little package with a definite cult-factor, but there's no way I'm paying $150 for this. Doesn't even come close to some of the other MD games in that price range that are truly classic.

V-V/Grindstormer: I really like this one. Hard as hell, but great fun, and very modern in style and gameplay. Huge sprites and lots of bullets. Something tells me this really should have been a Saturn port. Does this have any slowdown or flicker on the real MD?
I'll probably try to find a copy of this, what price should I excpect for a japanese V-V?

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Definitive 16-Bit Toaplan shooter?

Definitive 16-Bit Toaplan shooter?

Re: Definitive 16-Bit Toaplan shooter?

Re: Definitive 16-Bit Toaplan shooter?