Earthquake has hit Japan

[austere]

In an unprecedented move, the US military is now evacuating (voluntary departure) all dependents (family members of servicemen) from Japan.

[tinotormed]

Oh boy. It sounds like it's going to be Chernobyl's 25th Meltdown Anniversary!

[austere]

Good news for Wackypedia users, I've been alerted that -- for whatever reason -- someone has decided to censor this image: "BWR Mark I Containment, cutaway.jpg" (do a google search to find all the recently broken links). Damage control anyone? Anyway, this was a second revision of the diagram I posted on page 6 of this thread (which has one flaw if you can spot it, hehe).

But it's fine, I'm hosting one (albeit lower resolution) on my website and I guarantee it'll won't go down for a while: http://activcontrol.net/images/BWR_cut-away.jpg

Make sure to splash this all over Wackypedia, if so inclined. Or just stop using such an awful, unaccountable resource run by uneducated chimpanzees.

EDIT: Here you can watch the chimps scratching each other's backs in their natural habitat: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commo ... utaway.jpg

[GaijinPunch]

While I like how everyone is really quick to blame everyone else, my colleague made a good point:

"They should've taken lessons from us, in how awesome we handled Hurricane Katrina".


Yeah, it was a joke.

[headcaseGames]

I am uninformed, so give me a little bit of the benefit of the doubt.. but don't be too harsh on wikipedia, and more importantly the govt's of the world, for freaking out about this stuff, and having a bit of a panicked reaction to it. Chernobyl was one of the biggest alltime disasters in history and to acknowledge that this many years later, something similar can - and has - gone down, makes a lot of people & systems look bad. It brings a lot of otherwise hidden political and social issues to the surface. No doubt a lot of the truth (and plenty of heresay) will come to light in due time - but the way information travels, is mutated, and incorrectly spread as events are unfolding is still an evolutionary process unto itself, if that makes sense. Given the overall gravity of this situation, I don't think there was any overall ill-intent. Just a lot of "ohhh...SHIT......"

[e_tank]

BTW why dont they rig one of those helicopters to be romote controlled just so they can fly lower and drop water properlly, its obvious what theyre doing atm is pissing in the wind

i know, right? there must be some kind of remote controlled aircraft that could do the job. damn it, where are the mythbusters when you need them!

[JAPJAC]

Most people in this country have been fantastic throughout and they can all be proud of themselves as I am.

For example, my best mate had the week off from work due to the disasters. Instead of just sitting around doing bugger all, twittering/blogging etc., he got off his arse and did something to help others. He has a sports car and begun doing a much needed service helping people get to where they needed to be (Narita Express stopped, airport coaches stopped etc.) all for a premium of course. All passengers were hugely grateful and he has pledged the profits to the good, to the victims of the disasters in Japan. I gave him Y50k cash also to go the same way as that is what I can afford at the minute.

And countless of other stories of unsung chaps doing their little bit.

Cheers.

[e_tank]

Make sure to splash this all over Wackypedia, if so inclined. Or just stop using such an awful, unaccountable resource run by uneducated chimpanzees.

we can't all be as smart or as educated as you. besides, i think everyone here knows to take what's written on wikipedia with a grain of salt, and to look into the relevant references cited at the bottom of each page for more credible information on a particular subject.

[neorichieb1971]

The IAEA guy has basically said he only gives advice and is hopping it out of there tomorrow.

This sounds really bad. I don't see anyone making a tough stand on this situation.

[austere]

I am uninformed, so give me a little bit of the benefit of the doubt.. but don't be too harsh on wikipedia

No person or organisation is beyond criticism -- Wikipedia isn't, the government isn't, you aren't and I am not either. In this day and age when information travels very quickly and is distilled faster than it can be polluted, hiding information and lying simply makes many people even more concerned about the situation.

Make sure to splash this all over Wackypedia, if so inclined. Or just stop using such an awful, unaccountable resource run by uneducated chimpanzees.

we can't all be as smart or as educated as you. besides, i think everyone here knows to take what's written on wikipedia with a grain of salt, and to look into the relevant references cited at the bottom of each page for more credible information on a particular subject.

It's true that education is still not free (and time consuming, a higher cost) but I put it to you that the website is dangerous because people treat it as if it's an encyclopedia rather than a particularly arranged search engine with hyperlinks.

The worst thing in my opinion is that the content is completely dynamic so you could refer to it in a block of text and after some time has passed the article could turn to complete shit. This makes following what you wrote impossible for someone else who encounters your post. Projects like this one try to mitigate these issues by making everyone accountable for their edits. The articles are also written by experts so you can be sure there's only a minor amount of retardation -- even if it will end up reflecting a single point of view, this is desirable as an amalgamation of different opinions is nonsensical. Unfortunately, with all those donations going to wikipedia something like scholarpedia will take a long time to gather enough articles to be useful.

This sounds really bad. I don't see anyone making a tough stand on this situation.

If I'm right, there's won't be much they can do very soon... besides starting up the cement mixers, if you know what I mean.

[rancor]

I'm interested in how he got anyone around in this sportscar. Until yesterday the highways have been closed to the public, and the local roads were completely gridlocked 24 hours a day. Not to mention that gasoline has been absolutely impossible to get. After the quake I attempted to take a bus home but it took 7 hours to go 6k on the one bus that I rode and figured walking would be quicker.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

BTW why dont they rig one of those helicopters to be romote controlled just so they can fly lower and drop water properlly, its obvious what theyre doing atm is pissing in the wind

i know, right? there must be some kind of remote controlled aircraft that could do the job. damn it, where are the mythbusters when you need them!

It might be a myth but hasnt the film industry done this in the past?

[Randorama]

Taken from a friend's FB wall

quote from today's Financial Times blog.

'The Italian Embassy measured radiation levels from the Embassy roof in Tokyo on Wednesday. Levels were found to be one third that of typical radiation levels in Rome, the Embassy said'

Secretary of italian Committee for re-introduction of Nuclear power (Gabriele Prinzi) said that. The Italian government is currently being lobbied to open nuclear centrals again, they were closed 22 years ago after a referendum.

Let's put in this way: a general pattern (among human beings, and Italy is a pathological case) is to equate some public role with automatic HOLY TRUTH of everything that comes from one's mouth.

Sorry for derailing.

[greg]

The envirofascists didn't want any new plants to be built so there was political pressure not to build new, much safer plants. In fact, if a passively safe design was used, the plant could be abandoned and the reactor will not meltdown. Furthermore, they used to protest and stop motion of spent fuel on its way to reprocessing plants. This is why the plants kept so much of it in the storage pool above the reactor. So you could say that the envirofascists are partly to blame for this catastrophe. Yet they sit there harping on about the event with self-righteousness...

QFT. Plus my dad told me that here in the States, since the Carter administration, they aren't allowed to reuse the uranium due to ill-informed legislation, despite that they are able to be reused. Do you know about this?

In an unprecedented move, the US military is now evacuating (voluntary departure) all dependents (family members of servicemen) from Japan.

I saw that they are offering to evacuate people in Nagoya even. Nagoya is so far away from the situation that this is such a joke. How about evacuating everyone from Nagasaki while you're at it? Thanks for the lulz, US State Department!

[GaijinPunch]

It's true that education is still not free (and time consuming, a higher cost) but I put it to you that the website is dangerous because people treat it as if it's an encyclopedia rather than a particularly arranged search engine with hyperlinks.

In theory it works... just like any other book or newspaper was. It is supposed to use citations. Clearly it's not perfect as the quality control is iffy. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be utilized, or even used.

Secretary of italian Committee for re-introduction of Nuclear power

Apparently the Italian Embassy took readings on the top of their building in Tokyo. Results were levels were 1/3 that of those found in Rome.

Nagoya is so far away from the situation that this is such a joke.

If you believe long-term disaster is coming than anywhere in the country is bad, as life will be amazingly disrupted... even in Nagoya.

[austere]

Clearly it's not perfect as the quality control is iffy. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be utilized, or even used.

Yeah, poor quality control and vested interests as well as incompetent and arrogant editors make it a terrible place to write anything of value. It's sad that people donate so much to that project when there are better run places like citizendium and scholarpedia, which are much smaller (and thus less useful) due to lack of funds. I'm not telling people that they shouldn't use it ever, it's just that I consider it harmful if they use it without the right frame of mind. I use it all the time -- as a search engine/summary page. I never assume it's exhaustive in points of view or relevant information though.

Plus my dad told me that here in the States, since the Carter administration, they aren't allowed to reuse the uranium due to ill-informed legislation, despite that they are able to be reused. Do you know about this?

Do you mean breeder reactors? Carter was only one in a long line of presidents that actively tried to halt progress in that area. The plans for these reactors were not canceled under his watch though. Bush resurrected the program and Obama then shelved it again in 2009 if I recall correctly. In France the envirofascists basically shut down an existing plant and halted progress as well. These idiots like to associate breeder reactors with Chernobyl even though it's a completely different design and fuel cycle. Sometimes I wonder why we don't dedicate an island for them where they can build mudhuts and live like apes until they die out because, let's face it, they'll never master farming. Nor would they want to, the poor souls.

[e_tank]

BTW why dont they rig one of those helicopters to be romote controlled just so they can fly lower and drop water properlly, its obvious what theyre doing atm is pissing in the wind

i know, right? there must be some kind of remote controlled aircraft that could do the job. damn it, where are the mythbusters when you need them!

It might be a myth but hasnt the film industry done this in the past?

yeah, they have and i agree, i wasn't being sarcastic (in case you thought i was). i haven't seen anyone answer this question yet either. dumping large amounts of water using something like this may be too difficult, but they could at least attach a camera to one and fly over the area to get a better look at what's going on. then again perhaps they already have all the information they need and figure if we really knew how much water/coolant was left in the spent fuel tank(s) it would cause panic.

[greg]

Do you mean breeder reactors? Carter was only one in a long line of presidents that actively tried to halt progress in that area. The plans for these reactors were not canceled under his watch though. Bush resurrected the program and Obama then shelved it again in 2009 if I recall correctly.

I wouldn't doubt it. He and his ilk will only be under the delusion that we can power the world's largest economy on windmills and solar panels. If they were allowed to reuse the uranium, that would cause even LESS nuclear waste, if only the stupid leftists (or envirofascists as you put it) would understand that!

I'm glad you're on this forum to speak the truth about this stuff. I prefer to call myself a conservationist rather than an environmentalist. But I am "green" to the point that I can be OCD about it. I recently moved into an apartment, and it kills me that there's no recycling in apartment complexes. So, I take my stuff to the park, but they only accept certain things to be recycled, such as plastic #1 and 2, and no glass. I hate it. I try to ride my bike as much as I can, and I take a train to work every day. But I want the train to be powered by the most efficient power source available. "Clean burning" coal still pollutes the skies, and windmills are a huge waste of space and a joke. Heck, I drive through them on the way to Los Angeles and half of them aren't even spinning every time, plus they're being repaired all the time. I'm all for alternative fuels, but looking at a centuries old style of power sourcing is not what I call progress. People keep expecting a huge "KABOOM" and a mushroom cloud in Japan to blow up half the country and melt everyone's skin off, and people in the USA are freaking out about radiation and buying up iodine like crazy, so now all those supplements are gone. Now the people who really need iodine are at a loss, unless they're clever enough to just go buy some seaweed at an Asian market or something.

In France the envirofascists basically shut down an existing plant and halted progress as well. These idiots like to associate breeder reactors with Chernobyl even though it's a completely different design and fuel cycle. Sometimes I wonder why we don't dedicate an island for them where they can build mudhuts and live like apes until they die out because, let's face it, they'll never master farming. Nor would they want to, the poor souls.

I bet a lot of them are vegetarian too, which puts a lot of those pukes at the bottom of the food chain anyway as far as I'm concerned. They'll never be satisfied.

But anyhow, enough derailing.

[scrilla4rella]

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-0 ... dents.html

Here is a Bloomberg (not exactly a bastion of the left-wing) article detailing the history of fraud and abuse in the JPN nuclear industry. From what I've heard the industry has been in no hurry to build new reactors because 30+ year-old plants are extremely profitable. The cost of construction has already been paid off with these older plants. A new nuclear power plant is a huge investment that takes decades to turn a profit. Saying that eco-activists and anti-nuclear politicians are the reasons that we have old and outdated plants in the US and JPN ignores the fact that the industry would much prefer using these old plants as opposed to building new ones.

[trap15]

<snipped for brevity>

Honestly, everyone should have known that already. Every company everywhere does that for the same reasons. No one actually cares about the safety. They care about the profit.

[GaijinPunch]

Media Sensationalism

Disco Reactor

From what I've heard the industry has been in no hurry to build new reactors because 30+ year-old plants are extremely profitable.

The other way to look at it is the country has been in financial crisis for the last 20 years.

[JAPJAC]

I'm interested in how he got anyone around in this sportscar. Until yesterday the highways have been closed to the public, and the local roads were completely gridlocked 24 hours a day. Not to mention that gasoline has been absolutely impossible to get. After the quake I attempted to take a bus home but it took 7 hours to go 6k on the one bus that I rode and figured walking would be quicker.

15 years of driving experience, a decade in Tokyo coupled with V6 worth of VAG grunt? I dunno! All I know is that i am typing this in Narita onroute to the home counties and we took an hour from jiyugaoka to here, motorways were fine.

Cheers.

[Skykid]

I bet a lot of them are vegetarian too, which puts a lot of those pukes at the bottom of the food chain anyway as far as I'm concerned.

Ha ha, I like that.

Honestly, everyone should have known that already. Every company everywhere does that for the same reasons. No one actually cares about the safety. They care about the profit.

Ka-ching! Ne'er a truer word was spoken.

Sky news ran an interesting report in which their man braving the Tokyo tan said that the mistrust in the Japanese government was growing daily amongst a nervous indigenous population. Why? Because foreign governments have spent the last three days chartering flights from the country to bring people home. It's causing quite a bit of unrest because the reports of "everything being fine" in the Japanese media doesn't follow suit.

[greg]

All I know is that i am typing this in Narita onroute to the home counties and we took an hour from jiyugaoka to here, motorways were fine.

Oh no, another gaijin is wussing out! Although if everybody's companies are taking the week or so off, you may as well take advantage of the free time.

Disco Reactor

Wow, according to that Fox News map, the earthquake and tsunami knocked Sendai all the way over to Kyushu! That's one powerful disaster!

[Skykid]

All I know is that i am typing this in Narita onroute to the home counties and we took an hour from jiyugaoka to here, motorways were fine.

Oh no, another gaijin is wussing out! Although if everybody's companies are taking the week or so off, you may as well take advantage of the free time.

There must be so many Japanese people who are like "holy shit, I've got a DAY OFF?!"

In all seriousness, there's every reason to leave if you can. It's not at any kind of threatening level in Tokyo at the moment (they say) but those reactors could go critical at any point and it may take several days to arrange your stuff and get out.

The thing is, is everyone in Tokyo is only suffering from the equivalent of a chest x-ray per day (or so we're told) but that shit sticks. Once you got a dose of rado in you, it never leaves.

[rancor]

The thing is, is everyone in Tokyo is only suffering from the equivalent of a chest x-ray per day (or so we're told)

Link plz. Latest information I can find concerning radiation in Tokyo is from these sources:

Radiation Graph

Geiger Counter Readings

Tokyo Radiation Not Harmful

Tokyo Radiation Continues to Decrease

Another Tokyo Radiation Graph

Which all say things are completely normal here and becoming "more normal" by the day. Seems to be a lot of FUD out there.

[Skykid]

The thing is, is everyone in Tokyo is only suffering from the equivalent of a chest x-ray per day (or so we're told)

Link plz.

Can't do that man, it's televised. I don't know what to believe anymore.

[Observer]

ふくしま負けない


This was put in the newspapers today. Either way, our media seems to have finally caught up with the Japan situation and showed some extra news but they still want the blood, the DEATH, the HORROR, pretty much like every other media around, right? They spent more time showing how that poor old japanese guy was crying more than anything else. "See? It's shocking to see this, but the japanese cry too!" Of course they cry, you fucking moron. Jeez, I hate our journalists and journalism in general...

[Ex-Cyber]

The thing is, is everyone in Tokyo is only suffering from the equivalent of a chest x-ray per day (or so we're told) but that shit sticks. Once you got a dose of rado in you, it never leaves.

Where did you hear that? Radiation isn't "sticky". That's why we can sterilize food, medical instruments, etc. with radiation. Some fission products are dangerous because your body treats them just like normal atoms and sticks them right into vulnerable tissue, but that's a chemical process that happens regardless of radiation. This is why iodine supplements are distributed; iodine doesn't really have anything to do with radiation exposure as such, it's just to saturate your thyroid with normal iodine so that your body doesn't stick a bunch of radioactive iodine in it.

[Elixir]

http://jpquake.wikispaces.com/Journalist+Wall+of+Shame