Earthquake has hit Japan

Lordstar · Post by **Lordstar** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:10 pm

Gaming tees for the support of Japan http://tinyurl.com/5rb6mjz more tees and sizes up'n tomorrow.

BID ATTITUDE FOR GAINS !

will defo put some shmup ones up tomorow

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:15 pm

austere wrote:
greg wrote:I tuned into Sean Hannity's stupid show and he was announcing that people in Tokyo are receiving 100 times more radiation than normal, and that's a bunch of crap.
Sean Hannity is a joke, I've yet to see a corroboration of this. Is pulling numbers out of your ass in fashion these days or is this a case of Chinese whispers? The wind isn't even directed at Tokyo at the moment, or at least the last time I checked. That said, there's no survey/mass measurements done over Tokyo, so we can't actually track the spread of the radioactive material let alone make very crude estimates of dosage rates. If they have, they certainly haven't published anything.

According to the news just now, Tokyo residents are receiving 0.004 Millisieverts of radioactivity per hour. Just 1/400th of the amount you would get from a chest xray.
It's quite a bit more the closer to the plant you go. If you're on site, you'll basically end up dead if you stay there for more than a few hours.

The biggest concern for me now (and everyone else) is that the water pool surrounding the nuclear rods in one of the sites has run dry, releasing a massive amount of radiation. If they're left exposed then they can set on fire and burn and release masses amounts of hydrogen and radioactivity into the air.
The problem is that no individual can enter the plant to refill the pool unless it's a suicide mission.

austere · Post by **austere** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:30 pm

Skykid wrote:According to the news just now, Tokyo residents are receiving 0.004 Millisieverts of radioactivity per hour. Just 1/400th of the amount you would get from a chest xray.

That's quite an elevation but that's definitely not 100 times by any measure, I mean if you only look at cosmic radiation, that's 14 times more. Anyway, if it triples then I would definitely get out of Tokyo though. Got a source, by the way? I'm interested in how they arrived at this figure.

By the way, people flying in from Japan are apparently tripping up the radiation meters at US airports. I'm guessing those things are way too sensitive.

headcaseGames · Post by **headcaseGames** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:54 pm

awesome story austere

Now do one about the effects of drinking alcohol..

EDIT: also here's a very nice and layman-friendly video explaining the events which led to this reactor malfunction

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:54 pm

austere wrote:Got a source, by the way? I'm interested in how they arrived at this figure.

I've had friends taking sources for days. They've been in this range, even in the Northern parts of the city.

By the way, people flying in from Japan are apparently tripping up the radiation meters at US airports. I'm guessing those things are way too sensitive.

Got a source for this? I got off with a plane full of people and nothing weird happened. Considering the doses around kantou are less than what you'd get on a long air plane trip, it's not that shocking.

headcaseGames · Post by **headcaseGames** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:58 pm

Japanese cartoon for kids describing the nuclear crisis http://bit.ly/ghGaVT

Blog of Japan nuclear plant worker http://bit.ly/eEyzoC

greg · Post by **greg** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:03 pm

GaijinPunch wrote:Got a source for this? I got off with a plane full of people and nothing weird happened. Considering the doses around kantou are less than what you'd get on a long air plane trip, it's not that shocking.

Welcome back to the United States. Although now seeing so many morbidly obese people here may tempt you to go clamoring to get on the next plane back to Japan since sniffing plutonium dust particles may seem preferable to having to look at these lardos, half-wits, and other morons, just enjoy your time here and try not to think too much of it.

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:07 pm

austere wrote:
Skykid wrote:According to the news just now, Tokyo residents are receiving 0.004 Millisieverts of radioactivity per hour. Just 1/400th of the amount you would get from a chest xray.
That's quite an elevation but that's definitely not 100 times by any measure, I mean if you only look at cosmic radiation, that's 14 times more. Anyway, if it triples then I would definitely get out of Tokyo though. Got a source, by the way? I'm interested in how they arrived at this figure.

No idea where the BBC is getting its info man, I only mentioned it because it completely invalidated whichever spoon said they were receiving 100 times more rad than normal.

brentsg · Post by **brentsg** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:18 pm

GaijinPunch wrote:
austere wrote:Got a source, by the way? I'm interested in how they arrived at this figure.
I've had friends taking sources for days. They've been in this range, even in the Northern parts of the city.

By the way, people flying in from Japan are apparently tripping up the radiation meters at US airports. I'm guessing those things are way too sensitive.
Got a source for this? I got off with a plane full of people and nothing weird happened. Considering the doses around kantou are less than what you'd get on a long air plane trip, it's not that shocking.

I had to get a CT scan of my lungs like a week ago. I probably glow more brightly than you do right now.

DragonInstall · Post by **DragonInstall** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:24 pm

So this nuclear plant is pretty much screwed.. how big would the radiation contamination be and for how long is the question.

Poor design choice to build a plant in that location without more backup generators in case it fails..... water damage seriously? You would think a country prone to tsunami nvm.

Hopefully they some how manage to stop it, but dropping water on top of it from a helicopter won't do much lol.

TrevHead (TVR) · Post by **TrevHead (TVR)** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:27 pm

Although the nuclear situation is very harrowing, lets not forget the all the other hardships the ppl are facing. Ive just watched a BBC news piece showing the food shortages, it showed ppl in a shelter been given 1 rice ball to share between 2 ppl, and an hospital where the casualties have changed from quake victims to the elderly who are cold and hungry but unfortunatly theres no food left at the hospital aswell.

Although this is a big disaster, ild of thought a rich country like Japan would still be able to get food to its ppl a week after the disaster. Ofc im dont mean to pull the Japanese ppl down, im just intrested in how the Japanese government are handling the situation. What do you guys living in Japan make of how the government is handling the whole situation beside the power plant issue?

BTW why dont they rig one of those helicopters to be romote controlled just so they can fly lower and drop water properlly, its obvious what theyre doing atm is pissing in the wind

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:34 pm

Taken from a friend's FB wall

quote from today's Financial Times blog.

'The Italian Embassy measured radiation levels from the Embassy roof in Tokyo on Wednesday. Levels were found to be one third that of typical radiation levels in Rome, the Embassy said'

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:36 pm

Poor design choice to build a plant in that location without more backup generators in case it fails..... water damage seriously? You would think a country prone to tsunami nvm.

Yeah, they clearly had no clue what they were doing. They only took on the 5th largest earthquake ever, an ensuing tsunami, and various explosions.

agustusx · Post by **agustusx** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:41 pm

headcaseGames wrote:Japanese cartoon for kids describing the nuclear crisis http://bit.ly/ghGaVT

Thx for sharing...it's rather on topic since I'm on the throne right now. My poo must not be radioactive though cause my dogs are still chillin at the door waiting on me.

DragonInstall · Post by **DragonInstall** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:51 pm

GaijinPunch wrote:Yeah, they clearly had no clue what they were doing. They only took on the 5th largest earthquake ever, an ensuing tsunami, and various explosions.

Yeah I realize that, but I still find fault in the design and little amount of backup measures in case water damage or earthquake damage.

maxlords · Post by **maxlords** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:04 pm

DragonInstall wrote:
GaijinPunch wrote:Yeah, they clearly had no clue what they were doing. They only took on the 5th largest earthquake ever, an ensuing tsunami, and various explosions.
Yeah I realize that, but I still find fault in the design and little amount of backup measures in case water damage or earthquake damage.

Yes...because they survived a quake 1000X (or 100X...can't remember) the strength they were designed to and a 30 meter wall of water travelling the speed of a supersonic jet and 3 out of the 4 backup pumps died on one of the 4 reactors hit.....they were poorly engineered.

headcaseGames · Post by **headcaseGames** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:19 pm

it's hard to give them grief over "faulty design." I believe this is the strongest quake on record in that region, and I believe they said if not for the tsunami damage then there would never have been such an escalation. You can only design things to be so impenetrable, especially when there are so many factors that can go wrong.

Those of us who have no idea what goes into such planning and design really take it for granted "oh well it works over the rest of the world so it shouldn't be that hard to expect them to have planned for it" It's fairly easy to write it off when you really don't know the depth of all that goes on behind the scenes (I include myself in that obliviousness)

Anyway, in that case why build homes and schools/etc near a waterfront EVER? Is that irresponsible as well? Earthquakes and deadly tidal waves and who knows what else could hit anywhere at anytime, potentially, for the little we know about the nature of such things. As they alluded to in that cartoon, breakdowns like this is kinda (brutal) payback for the benefits of having utilized nuclear power for all those years, and what we've saved otherwise/conveniences we've enjoyed. No free lunches in nature, unfortunately.

Hopefully they'll contain this issue soon and we can all go back to worrying about how many whores Charlie Sheen is schtupping.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:22 pm

DragonInstall wrote:
GaijinPunch wrote:Yeah, they clearly had no clue what they were doing. They only took on the 5th largest earthquake ever, an ensuing tsunami, and various explosions.
Yeah I realize that, but I still find fault in the design and little amount of backup measures in case water damage or earthquake damage.

And where might these structures that would not be damaged have gone? Have you ever been in:

1) an Earthquake
2) a Tsunami

?

Their damage encompasses a relatively large amount of space.

greg · Post by **greg** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:31 pm

maxlords wrote:Yes...because they survived a quake 1000X (or 100X...can't remember) the strength they were designed to and a 30 meter wall of water travelling the speed of a supersonic jet and 3 out of the 4 backup pumps died on one of the 4 reactors hit.....they were poorly engineered.

Excellent point. Everyone just gets pissed off that a nuclear power plant has had trouble despite it being 40 years old and only made to withstand earthquakes that are under 9.0 and had so many freak accidents to put it in the condition it is in now. You know, a dam in Fukushima burst from the quake and over 1,800 homes were destroyed downstream from it, causing an unknown number of injuries, fatalities, and incredible loss of property. Yet we don't see people hopping up and down on TV demanding that we shut down all hydroelectric dams, or for us to question their safety.

dcharlie · Post by **dcharlie** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:38 pm

The problem is that no individual can enter the plant to refill the pool unless it's a suicide mission.

People already volunteering - hell, a 60 year old worker is already there saying it's his duty to do whatever is necessary.

Meanwhile reports British Airways jacked up the price of flight tickets from 65k to 700k. Would like confirmation of that report though - it's coming from angry people wanting to get out, but if that's the economy seat price then BA should be named and shamed along with all the other profiteering cunts who have taken this as an opportunity to make some money. Lots of reports - definitely going to be a name and shame session when this starts calming down

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:53 pm

dcharlie wrote:
The problem is that no individual can enter the plant to refill the pool unless it's a suicide mission.
People already volunteering - hell, a 60 year old worker is already there saying it's his duty to do whatever is necessary.

Meanwhile reports British Airways jacked up the price of flight tickets from 65k to 700k. Would like confirmation of that report though - it's coming from angry people wanting to get out, but if that's the economy seat price then BA should be named and shamed along with all the other profiteering cunts who have taken this as an opportunity to make some money. Lots of reports - definitely going to be a name and shame session when this starts calming down

If that's true it's sick, but I can't find any suggestions that they have increased fares by that amount. Have you got a source for it?

Skyknight · Post by **Skyknight** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:59 pm

I'm curious as to why they use nuclear plants in the first place in an area as geologically active as Japan. I'd sooner expect geothermal plants like in Iceland. What exactly is interdicting them?

kyuzo · Post by **kyuzo** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:01 pm

Overall, the American Red Cross has raised about $47 million in the United States since the earthquake and tsunami struck Japan last Friday.
The U.S. organization has passed $10 million of those donations on to the Japanese Red Cross for work on the ground in Japan, it said.

From: http://www.cnn.com/2011/SHOWBIZ/celebri ... tml?hpt=T2

Seems kinda odd, though maybe there's some decent explanation? I'm happy I gave to Red Cross Japan directly though...

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:53 pm

dcharlie wrote: Meanwhile reports British Airways jacked up the price of flight tickets from 65k to 700k. Would like confirmation of that report though - it's coming from angry people wanting to get out, but if that's the economy seat price then BA should be named and shamed along with all the other profiteering cunts who have taken this as an opportunity to make some money. Lots of reports - definitely going to be a name and shame session when this starts calming down

Why ask? Go to Orbitz. As of yesterday (and the day before, when I booked my flight) ANA was the only airline to offer flights to the continental US for under $3000 USD. The price was $750 or so, $1138 USD total with all airport and butt rape fees (and $60 of insurance to change the return date). AA was the only one that Orbitz didn't list. When I went to AA.com, they wanted about $850-$950 for each leg. Not ridiculous, but not very nice. US airlines usually fuck you without 2 weeks notice though, so it's not a surprise.

dcharlie · Post by **dcharlie** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:40 am

If that's true it's sick, but I can't find any suggestions that they have increased fares by that amount. Have you got a source for it?

couple of guys from work trying to get home, both told to phone to get quotes. I'd try and find out whether that was the price for economy -or- that only Business/first was left but... yeah... i'm sure they've got bigger fish to fry.

Edit: Checked the website- seems to be 1 seat and 3 seats for the next day at a price of 70k yeh which isn't bad at all. I'm guessing the day they wanted to go (yesterday) was out of econ and only buisiness remained (?)

As of yesterday (and the day before, when I booked my flight) ANA was the only airline to offer flights to the continental US for under $3000 USD.

yup - one guy has went with ANA because there was only small difference to their regular price.

gct · Post by **gct** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:45 am

kyuzo wrote:
Overall, the American Red Cross has raised about $47 million in the United States since the earthquake and tsunami struck Japan last Friday.
The U.S. organization has passed $10 million of those donations on to the Japanese Red Cross for work on the ground in Japan, it said.
From: http://www.cnn.com/2011/SHOWBIZ/celebri ... tml?hpt=T2

Seems kinda odd, though maybe there's some decent explanation? I'm happy I gave to Red Cross Japan directly though...

From what I can tell, American and Japanese Red Cross are separate entities. I'm hoping it's that $10m is for Japanese Red Cross' own domestic operations, and some other portion is for American Red Cross' supplies and logistics if they are sending relief... But I don't know anything for sure. Thanks for bringing it up though, I hope people can continue to support Japanese Red Cross directly.

austere · Post by **austere** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:11 am

GaijinPunch wrote: Got a source for this? I got off with a plane full of people and nothing weird happened. Considering the doses around kantou are less than what you'd get on a long air plane trip, it's not that shocking.

Here's one:
http://chicagobreakingbusiness.com/2011 ... ctors.html

Mayor Richard Daley acknowledged Thursday that inbound flights from Tokyo had set off radiation detectors at O’Hare, but he offered no details and said federal officials will be handling the situation.

“Of course the protection of the person coming off the plane is very important in regards to any radiation, especially within their families and anything else,” Daley said at a news conference to discuss his trip to China this week.

Customs officials detected trace elements of radiation on cargo containers on two flights that landed at O’Hare from Tokyo’s Narita International Airport, Wednesday, and an additional flight operated by American Airlines into Dallas-Ft. Worth International Airport.

Officials quickly determined that the packages were safe, sources said. On the two American flights, the isotope discovered was consistent with that emitted by medical devices, and the jets were quickly returned to service, said Tim Smith, spokesman for the Dallas-based carrier.

Evilmaxwar · Post by **Evilmaxwar** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:26 am

maxlords wrote:
DragonInstall wrote:
GaijinPunch wrote:Yeah, they clearly had no clue what they were doing. They only took on the 5th largest earthquake ever, an ensuing tsunami, and various explosions.
Yeah I realize that, but I still find fault in the design and little amount of backup measures in case water damage or earthquake damage.

Yes...because they survived a quake 1000X (or 100X...can't remember) the strength they were designed to and a 30 meter wall of water travelling the speed of a supersonic jet and 3 out of the 4 backup pumps died on one of the 4 reactors hit.....they were poorly engineered.

A bit of an exaggeration Maxlord. Wall of water was not this high and it only travel at this speed in the open ocean, when it reaches shore its much slower.

The structure survived the earthquake pretty well, but the tsunami made the backup generators go fubar. Where i tend to agree with DragonInstall about something being faulty, it is that the plant is built directly on the shore of the ocean in Tsunami/earthquake land. A place where they have had huge quakes and tsunamis throughout their history. Why build it directly on the shore when you KNOW you will likely have a big tsunami sonner or later? And when this happen chances are pretty obviously high you are likely to get total failure of both regular and backup power source.

Now im not an expert in nuclear plants but from what i see the only real advantage of having it built this close to ocean is for emergency cooling from sea water. Something it would not have needed had it been built inland. Maybe also for easy access to boats. Anyway hopefully someone will be able to prove me wrong about this. Also i think many plants in the world are built inland but close to fresh water ( lakes, rivers).

Now suppose you take a look at all the nuclear plants in the world. Then you start to look at where/how they are built in relation to all the "what-if". I would bet a lot of em would be lacking in an area or another. I think the Fukushima plant would have rated pretty high on the "doh" meter. Japan can hardly be blamed for that though, they are simply the unlucky bunch that were the first to have a taste of what mother nature can do to a nuclear plant.

austere · Post by **austere** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:30 am

Evilmaxwar wrote:Now im not an expert in nuclear plants but from what i see the only real advantage of having it built this close to ocean is for emergency cooling from sea water.

It's also much safer to build them along the shore rather than next to a river due to potential contamination problems. It's not just for emergency cooling supply though, the ocean is effectively the largest heat pool available. You can just dump the hot water into the ocean and pump in new, cooler water. Even coal plants are sometimes built next to shores for this reason.

Evilmaxwar wrote:I think the Fukushima plant would have rated pretty high on the "doh" meter

Well, it honestly should have been decommissioned long ago. I know people think they knew what they were doing and it's true -- they were out for profit, Japan wanted power without expanding infrastructure. The envirofascists didn't want any new plants to be built so there was political pressure not to build new, much safer plants. In fact, if a passively safe design was used, the plant could be abandoned and the reactor will not meltdown. Furthermore, they used to protest and stop motion of spent fuel on its way to reprocessing plants. This is why the plants kept so much of it in the storage pool above the reactor. So you could say that the envirofascists are partly to blame for this catastrophe. Yet they sit there harping on about the event with self-righteousness...

EDIT: fixed quote attribution, was previously incorrect.

Evilmaxwar · Post by **Evilmaxwar** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:43 am

Thanks for the precision Austere, i see what you mean about the ocean being the best Heat sink for that job. But obviously there are other ways to run a plant as they are not all built on shore. Other ways are probably more expensive though. Once again it all comes down to money ....

Btw you quoted me with the wrong name

Edit : Yes those envirofascists are a pain sometimes, I am a very "green" guy, i dont throw away any food and i actually collect electronics laying around in the neighborhood garbage and either repair it or bring it to recycling center.
But these guys are like "Burn a book to save a tree".

shmups.system11.org

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