Which of the Touhou Games is the Best in the Series?

[TrevHead (TVR)]

I must say, I really love the concept of Spell Practice even though I can't sit through IN itself without drifting off to sleep.

Thats true the pacing is too slow, im hoping that the scoring aspect will make up for it.

Lol now ive seen that vid im temped to fuck Touhou off and play some Hellsinker instead, Damn you Bananamatic!

[Chaos Phoenixma]

IN is definitely easy from a survival standpoint. I should learn how to take more risks in it and also remember the game in general(because I probably wouldn't 1cc Lunatic if I tried at the moment. Okay, maybe I could) as I haven't played it in way too long. I wonder how long it'll take to learn how to supergraze Wriggle, how long to learn how to supergraze Keine's midboss card, relearn Three Treasures grazing, actually try to learn Hourai Jewel grazing and other stuff.

Edit: Oh, and I wanted to do a no bombs 1cc, but that would definitely require relearning the game.

[Naut]

oh and IN is pretty damn easy as stage 5 is a huge joke

Whole game is a joke, play UFO

I must say, I really love the concept of Spell Practice even though I can't sit through IN itself without drifting off to sleep.

ZUN's new game, Ten Desires, is bringing back spell practice. Perhaps it's worth your time to check out when the demo comes out, considering each game he's made has had harder bullet patterns than the previous ever since PCB. I'd love to see another step up in the pure dodging difficulty from UFO/GFW.

(because I probably wouldn't 1cc Lunatic if I tried at the moment. Okay, maybe I could)

You could.

[Zengeku3]

oh and IN is pretty damn easy as stage 5 is a huge joke

Whole game is a joke, play UFO

Yes. Then the bosses aren't jokes at least. Most of them aren't anyway.

[cj iwakura]

Imperishable Night. Lots of variety(branching paths and different bosses with different playable characters), fantastic music, difficulty to spare. I don't recommend it as a first game, though.

Start with Embodiment of Scarlet Devil.

[Blackbird]

I find it interesting that people seem to like various games in the series for different reasons. Usually there is an obvious fan consensus regarding which game in a series is best. I am surprised that this isn't the case here. I guess I'll just have to dive in and see what appeals to me.

UFO looked really appealing, graphically, but that doesn't account for how well the game is balanced or how fun it is.

[Chaos Phoenixma]

Too bad UFO is a broken imbalanced horrible mess. I do like it more than Great Fairy Wars though as that took things to another level of bad.

[Barrakketh]

Too bad UFO is a broken imbalanced horrible mess.

How? Other than Marisa!B being a pretty terrible shot type.

[Naut]

Too bad UFO is a broken imbalanced horrible mess.

Code for "kicks my ass."

[Chaos Phoenixma]

Except it isn't.

Futari God mode kicks my ass. Deathsmiles 999 kicks my ass. Hell even level 3 Death Mode kicks my ass in the final stage and Death Mode 2 would kick it even more. Even Ikaruga which is still more fun than UFO kicks my ass. Most Arcade shmups, not just Cave are actually fun. And the ones that are fun provide a fair challenge.


Even from Touhou, SA has a few attacks that are legitimately harder than most if not all attacks from UFO. And there are a few that are harder in other games too. And guess what? I don't complain about them because it is my fault when I die to them. I die because I legitimately misread or mess up a dodge. I die because I legitimately don't know how to do something. Unlike UFO where I can die because it's humanly impossible to remember what to do for hundreds of different randomized movement patterns on a spellcard, or the card blocks your vision of the bullets, or because the boss RANDOMLY moves down making a nonspell or spell impossible to dodge, or ramming a fairy while doing the stage 3 circle streaming BS because your shot didn't hit one from behind you when the shot will usually help you with something a little behind. A boss moving down too far making something impossible to dodge would be fine IF you could control the boss movement, but since boss movement in UFO is RANDOM, that is not okay.

UFO is in no way Real Difficulty, it is Fake Difficulty in most senses of the word. It is pretty much luck-based garbage. UFO Lunatic is EASY to 1cc if you're lucky. I know how to do almost all stage stuff CONSISTENTLY and the boss stuff that doesn't suffer from ridiculous randomness. I've gotten to Byakuren a few times, but because I have terrible luck with everything, I get the impossible shit in EVERY run. While some people might never have to deal with it.

[Naut]

Even from Touhou, SA has a few attacks that are legitimately harder than most if not all attacks from UFO. And there are a few that are harder in other games too. And guess what? I don't complain about them because it is my fault when I die to them. I die because I legitimately misread or mess up a dodge. I die because I legitimately don't know how to do something. Unlike UFO where I can die because it's humanly impossible to remember what to do for hundreds of different randomized movement patterns on a spellcard, or the card blocks your vision of the bullets, or because the boss RANDOMLY moves down making a nonspell or spell impossible to dodge, or ramming a fairy while doing the stage 3 circle streaming BS because your shot didn't hit one from behind you when the shot will usually help you with something a little behind. A boss moving down too far making something impossible to dodge would be fine IF you could control the boss movement, but since boss movement in UFO is RANDOM, that is not okay.

UFO is in no way Real Difficulty, it is Fake Difficulty in most senses of the word. It is pretty much luck-based garbage. UFO Lunatic is EASY to 1cc if you're lucky. I know how to do almost all stage stuff CONSISTENTLY and the boss stuff that doesn't suffer from ridiculous randomness. I've gotten to Byakuren a few times, but because I have terrible luck with everything, I get the impossible shit in EVERY run. While some people might never have to deal with it.

I take back my previous statement. This is code for "kicks my ass."

So, if I'm reading this right, you consider "real difficulty" to be anything that you can memorize, whereas anything that changes even slightly is "fake difficulty?"

[Barrakketh]

Unlike UFO where I can die because it's humanly impossible to remember what to do for hundreds of different randomized movement patterns on a spellcard, or the card blocks your vision of the bullets, or because the boss RANDOMLY moves down making a nonspell or spell impossible to dodge

Examples needed.

or ramming a fairy while doing the stage 3 circle streaming BS because your shot didn't hit one from behind you when the shot will usually help you with something a little behind.

PEBCAK.

I take back my previous statement. This is code for "kicks my ass."

So, if I'm reading this right, you consider "real difficulty" to be anything that you can memorize, whereas anything that changes even slightly is "fake difficulty?"

I don't think they consider it "real difficulty", they call that "memogarbage". Because if it's random it's complete bullshit, but if it's static it is memogarbage.

Just like this guy, who is totally easy and boring and so static he can be beat with a programmable controller. For the the people with broken sarcasm detectors, yes I'm joking.

EDIT: And shouldn't this line of discussion be in the hate thread?

[Chaos Phoenixma]

Since when could you memorize most of EoSD's spellcards and stuff like Orin's Lunatic Catwalk, or Ghost Wheels(outside of the actual ghost wheels that can be memorized, there's still randomness), or Utsuho's first and second spellcards, or Hell's Tokamak, or lots of stuff from PCB?

Now, not all of that is hard, some of it is easy stuff while some is hard. The only thing that I could see someone somewhat legitimately arguing as BS from EoSD is Vampire Illusion and Scarlet Gensokyo as they can legitimately wall you randomly. Vengeful Cat Spirit's Erratic Step/Catwalk is an extremely hard Touhou attack is random, and is never impossible. Virtue of Wind God is has some elements random and somethings that aren't, and it's fun and never impossible despite the random stuff, hell I even timed the thing out once. The random micrododging on Ghost Wheels is hard, but it's never impossible. There's also Mokou's final nonspell which is also random, pretty hard, but is not BS, though it could be argued that it's more of a Lunatic tier attack, it still isn't BS..

Random =/= BS, at least not automatically. There has to be something that makes it cross into that realm, and UFO and GFW(at least if you're trying to Gold Medal) fall into it.

And not all memorization reliant stuff is automatically garbage either. I'll admit to having used the term memogarbage before, but it's almost never serious. Memorization is to be expected to some extent, and I have nothing against it as long as it's reasonable.

[Sapz]

It is pretty much luck-based garbage.

I get the impossible shit in EVERY run.

...Welp.

Since when could you memorize most of EoSD's spellcards and stuff like Orin's Lunatic Catwalk, or Ghost Wheels(outside of the actual ghost wheels that can be memorized, there's still randomness), or Utsuho's first and second spellcards, or Hell's Tokamak, or lots of stuff from PCB?

Now, not all of that is hard, some of it is easy stuff while some is hard. The only thing that I could see someone somewhat legitimately arguing as BS from EoSD is Vampire Illusion and Scarlet Gensokyo as they can legitimately wall you randomly. Vengeful Cat Spirit's Erratic Step/Catwalk is an extremely hard Touhou attack is random, and is never impossible. Virtue of Wind God is has some elements random and somethings that aren't, and it's fun and never impossible despite the random stuff, hell I even timed the thing out once. The random micrododging on Ghost Wheels is hard, but it's never impossible.


Random =/= BS, at least not automatically. There has to be something that makes it cross into that realm, and UFO and GFW(at least if you're trying to Gold Medal) fall into it.

So what is the something, exactly? It's very possible to dodge everything in UFO with a good degree of consistency. Nothing as hard as, say, Scarlet Meister.

[Treasurance]

best touhou game is no game

[Chaos Phoenixma]

You can notice some static elements in VoWG during the earlier waves. It's harder to notice them later on. Like how certain colored waves come after other waves. Or how some of the waves are aimed at certain positions compared to others. There's still some randomness as the attack does play out differently every time.

Once it goes past 30 seconds into the card on Lunatic or 50 seconds on Hard and starts getting faster, it becomes more random than before that.

As for UFO, some of it was mentioned already. And GFW Zun even admitted that if you're trying to play without Ice that the game is trash. Obviously, No Ice should only come into play for gold medalling, but the fact that so much is impossible without the gimmick makes the game not fun. The game itself isn't BS due to the Ice, but I still don't have to like it due to the game being fair when you do use it.

[Bananamatic]

I've gotten to Byakuren a few times

On Lunatic?
While you have a hard time with DDP?

GODDAMN SHIT'S EASY

best touhou game is no game

That makes the Playstation 3 the best console

[Chaos Phoenixma]

I could 1cc DDP if I had a good controller since screw playing it with a keyboard. Keyboard is for PC games only. MAME or console stuff requires a controller or a stick, though I have to stick with a controller due to not having an arcade stick.

I don't really like Stage 5 or 6, but they can be bombspammed, and 1cc with C-S wouldn't be hard if I had a reliable control method.

[Bananamatic]

Keyboard is boss

Also, answer the original question: UFO lunatic?

[Chaos Phoenixma]

Yes, on Lunatic.

[Treasurance]

lol DDPs easy to 1CC even on my laptop where the keys get "stuck" if I press up and left keys at the same time

also 1CC'd on schools computer, perfected the last attack of last boss on that run

[Bananamatic]

perfected the last attack of last boss on that run

I never managed that, way harder than DOJ final

[Treasurance]

perfected the last attack of last boss on that run

I never managed that, way harder than DOJ final

some people saw it but thought it was easy because the screen wasn't a sea of purple or something

[Chaos Phoenixma]

I still don't like DDP though, so I doubt I'd bother. I should get back to DOJ though. I probably can't even get to stage 5 on it now.

[Naut]

Intriguing conversation gents, but back to why Touhou is the best shmup of all time.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

So is every touhou game different in its scoring system?
I know TH 8 has that wierd human/demon gauge, grazing, power items plus time (score) items
TH 10 has chaining and TH 12 has that wierd UFO collection / super weapon mechanic.
Anyone care to mention any of the score systems of the other games and if it works well or not?

[Bananamatic]

Intriguing conversation gents, but back to why Touhou is the best shmup of all time.

Several

wonderful

examples

also

this

seriously

Touhou

Also

the

fanbase

[RNGmaster]

So, if I'm reading this right, you consider "real difficulty" to be anything that you can memorize, whereas anything that changes even slightly is "fake difficulty?"

+1
To Chaos Phoenixma: If you can't react to unexpected circumstances, you are bad at shmups.
Christ, memorization isn't the only thing out there, reflexes and spatial awareness matter too. If this genre was solely about memorization, there wouldn't be as huge and vibrant of a fanbase as there is. Try to dodge on the fly sometimes instead of complaining about how some things "can't be memorized".

[Bananamatic]

Try to dodge on the fly sometimes instead of complaining about how some things "can't be memorized".

Sightreading UFO in a nutshell

[VgameT]

As for UFO, some of it was mentioned already. And GFW Zun even admitted that if you're trying to play without Ice that the game is trash. Obviously, No Ice should only come into play for gold medalling, but the fact that so much is impossible without the gimmick makes the game not fun. The game itself isn't BS due to the Ice, but I still don't have to like it due to the game being fair when you do use it.

mars matrix is trash because I have to use the bullet reflect gimmick to get any amount of points and raise my shot power