Earthquake has hit Japan

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t0yrobo
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Re: Earthquake has hit Japan

Post by t0yrobo »

Blackbird wrote:Any advice regarding the best place to put my aid money? I want to do this today, so if no one hollers otherwise, it's going to the Salvation Army.
I haven't looked closely into it myself but I've seen the Salvation Army, Red Cross, and Doctors Without Borders being suggested the most by. Apparently the Red Cross already has a pretty large presence in Japan (since before the quakes), but I don't know if one would make it a better choice in any way. Regardless you should probably try to donate directly to the Japanese branch of the organization so the money actually gets to Japan.
On a related note I read a few days ago that so far the amount of money donated has been far less than for Katrina or Haiti :( .
Last edited by t0yrobo on Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Skykid
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Re: Earthquake has hit Japan

Post by Skykid »

greg wrote:I've donated a little to Red Cross so far, but not much since they aren't that popular. I've heard something about the president of the Red Cross making tons of money for himself even though it's supposed to be a non-profit org.
All registered charities are businesses, and part of their business is deception, that's why I'm hesitant to give to them. The thought of a percentage of my donation going towards some rich guys life of fast cars and hookers is really off putting.
If I can help it, whenever I donate anything it's into the hands of the people on the street asking for it.

Charities profit from disasters like this.

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Blackbird
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Re: Earthquake has hit Japan

Post by Blackbird »

Skykid wrote:All registered charities are businesses ... The thought of a percentage of my donation going towards some rich guys life of fast cars and hookers is really off putting.
^ There lies the rub. I would have much more piece of mind if I could put it directly into the hands of someone who needs help, or someone in a position to purchase food/water/supplies and cart them out directly to those in need.

Anyone know someone like that?
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Re: Earthquake has hit Japan

Post by BulletMagnet »

greg wrote:When I turn on CNN, I want to see people getting rescued, seeing people getting interviewed to describe what they saw, etc. I got a lot of that at first, then now all they do is talk about the nuclear reactor problem. It's stupid.
Nice as it is to see survivors recount their stories after the fact, I really can't blame news sources for continuing to cover possible impending nuclear meltdowns until the situation is under control. I'm definitely no fan of the pseudo-entertainment tack of the news these days (as I've said before, the fact that so many people still think tax cuts magically increase revenue is enough to convince me that the media has utterly failed in its duty to keep the public informed about the very basic ways the world works), but I doubt that the focus on the plants in this case is motivated by anything other than "this is actually kinda important".
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DEL
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Re: Earthquake has hit Japan

Post by DEL »

Skykid wrote;
All registered charities are businesses, and part of their business is deception, that's why I'm hesitant to give to them. The thought of a percentage of my donation going towards some rich guys life of fast cars and hookers is really off putting.
Yup, sadly true. I remember 3-4 years back when every high street in the UK was swamped with student-types accosting you for various charity organizations. Not one of these characters looked the type to do selflessly do this for nothing. they were doing it for a cut.

Anyway, does anyone have a link to today's blast footage?
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Re: Earthquake has hit Japan

Post by greg »

Youtubers are covering Tokyo after the aftermath.
This woman is showing Shibuya and Shinjuku with all the video screens turned off, empty store shelves: http://www.youtube.com/user/superspryte

This guy is showing the train stations closed down and empty:
http://www.youtube.com/user/lylehsaxon
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Re: Earthquake has hit Japan

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DEL wrote: Yup, sadly true. I remember 3-4 years back when every high street in the UK was swamped with student-types accosting you for various charity organizations. Not one of these characters looked the type to do selflessly do this for nothing. they were doing it for a cut.
They still come out seasonally round here, pretty much one every 50 yards down the main street. "Hey mate can you spare a minute to sign up your bank details for a monthly direct debit donation to Cancer Research UK?"

"No, fuck off."

...

"Hey mate, can you spare a minute -"

Repeat.
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E. Randy Dupre
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Re: Earthquake has hit Japan

Post by E. Randy Dupre »

This is becoming a baffling conversation. How do you expect charities to carry on functioning if they give 100% of donations away? When you donate, you're also giving a portion of that money to ensure that the charity can actually do its job.
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Re: Earthquake has hit Japan

Post by agustusx »

E. Randy Dupre wrote:This is becoming a baffling conversation. How do you expect charities to carry on functioning if they give 100% of donations away? When you donate, you're also giving a portion of that money to ensure that the charity can actually do its job.
Ok I see where this is going, can we not get into the business model of charities right now? It will be a long drawn out fight with informed representation on both sides I assure you.

Lets agree that there may be a dispute on the percentage of funds that are needed to operate a charity, but lets not dive into specifics....
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Re: Earthquake has hit Japan

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E. Randy Dupre wrote:This is becoming a baffling conversation. How do you expect charities to carry on functioning if they give 100% of donations away? When you donate, you're also giving a portion of that money to ensure that the charity can actually do its job.
If only that were the end of it.

There's no reason to open this conversation up here anyway. Giving to any Japanese disaster fund right now is a good natured and positive action. It is by rights a very rich country, but it's nice to see people wanting to help nonetheless.

Charities are unscrupulous with money and their tax exemption boon, and beyond the 'doing their job' and functioning bit, no-one should assume a portion of their donations aren't going to go directly into someone's pocket for doing absolutely nothing. But that's the way the world is, at least some of it will go to the right place.
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Re: Earthquake has hit Japan

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Two workers have been killed in an explosion at Unit-4, which is now on fire.
moozooh wrote:If you leave the nuclear fuel without means to cool down, it will keep melting through everything on its way until it cools down (which, considering its total mass, is unlikely to be quick), or until it meets the nearest water-filled cavity, at which point it will start uncontrollably poisoning the area for years to come.
From what I hear, the plant is built over bedrock so the corium would eventually reach too large a body to maintain it's temperature and it'll stop right there.
moozooh wrote:Considering how slowly the stuff decays and how hot it remains all the way, it may actually melt through (most of) the crust and be partially ejected back by the pressure, or at least build up a pressure sufficient for radioactive vapors to seep through crevices.
Like I said originally, I hope they've done their geological study correctly (meaning they did build over bedrock) because we're facing a meltdown for sure. It's hard to get specific and official information on this, but apparently the core did meltdown in Chernobyl and they had all kinds of counter-measures such as pumping liquid nitrogen into the basement. It's been years since I did the analysis but apparently it was unnecessary as the molten core eventually dissipated due to all the impurities that were building up. This effectively increases the area to volume ratio.

Anyway the "sinkhole" suggestion is a product of systematic insanity...
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Re: Earthquake has hit Japan

Post by moozooh »

Some rather grim facts.

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/78352.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/ ... 5H20110315
http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/news_imag ... 89582P.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_o ... C_16_March

The reactor situation is almost completely out of TEPCO's control. They cannot sustain safe temperatures for any of the cores in Units 1–3, and the spent fuel ponds (which contain lots of radioactive material not as well-shielded as fuel in the cores) are gradually overheating and catching fire, starting with the one at Unit 4 (and Units 5 & 6 are following suit; but there are several more of them), that cannot be extinguished due to risk of fatal exposure. The radiation level in control rooms has risen to an extent when the qualified personnel can spend at most a few minutes there without the aforementioned risk. TEPCO has withdrawn everybody but 50 people from the premises, and it seems they are about to withdraw those as well, from that point on relying only on robots and aerial support. They've planned to use helicopters to drop water on the reactor cores, but that plan was (unsurprisingly) considered inefficient and highly hazardous. If nothing miraculous happens, they will need to drop not water, but boron, lead, concrete — anything to stop further propagation of radioactive material into the atmosphere, as cooling it down proves to be an impossible task. It seems that austere was right: the workers that have stayed there for the past two days will likely fall very sick due to radiation poisoning, at the minimum.

These are radiometry readings in Tokyo: http://park18.wakwak.com/~weather/geiger_index.html
They are within normal limits for now (if I read the units right), but show an increase from normal background radiation of 14.0 CPM (~0.12 µSv/h) to 27.5 CPM (~0.23 µSv/h) over the past day alone. Keep in mind this is 200 kilometers away from the nuclear plants. It's not high enough for mass-scale evacuation yet (an average human absorbs around 0.40 µSv/h from all sources combined), but it's a good idea to keep an eye on it. If the readings exceed 100 CPM consistently, it's definitely time to think about a safer place to live.
For comparison, this is Chiba (updated in real-time): http://www.ustream.tv/channel/geiger-counter-chiba (µSv/h).
This is Vladivostok (one of the Russian cities closest to Japan): http://www.vl.ru/radiation/ (µR/h).
IAEA's factsheet on radiation and what is considered a safe dose: link.

The fact that Japanese authorities are still rating this an INES 4 accident, even though it's definitely beyond Three Mile Island (INES 5) at this point and is about to meet the qualifications for INES 6, is very hypocritical at best.
Last edited by moozooh on Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Earthquake has hit Japan

Post by Skykid »

I heard this too. They keep saying the workers are 'missing' after the last explosion. WTF does 'missing' mean? It's not like they've gone for a walk somewhere. If they can't find them, then surely 'presumed dead' would be more appropriate.
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Re: Earthquake has hit Japan

Post by ryu »

haven't they declared it a level 6 a couple of hours ago?

edit: oh they're both different estimates. nvm

anyways, according to wikipeda the amount of radiation being put out still seems to be safe. (about 130 msv per day. 250 per day makes people sick)
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Re: Earthquake has hit Japan

Post by rapoon »

a huge portion of the citizens are having an extremely difficult time getting out.
this is fucking horrible.
they keep showing shots of enormous pools of nuclear waste that's effectively surrounded by flames...
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Re: Earthquake has hit Japan

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This is such a nightmare. It seems like they really need to do something dramatic right now or it's going to go further south.
Last edited by Blackbird on Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Earthquake has hit Japan

Post by rancor »

You guys are freaking me out.. I can't read anymore.. I'll be back in a few days. :shock:

..Hopefully when all of this is over.
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Re: Earthquake has hit Japan

Post by tinotormed »

Heads up! Reactor no. 4 is on fire!!! :shock:

Can't this domino effect on these disasters get any worse? :x
Last edited by tinotormed on Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Skykid
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Re: Earthquake has hit Japan

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rancor wrote:You guys are freaking me out.. I can't read anymore.. I'll be back in a few days. :shock:

..Hopefully when all of this is over.
I understand you guys in Japan are getting very different news from us. Been on the line to friend there tonight.

According to the BBC there's a great deal of mistrust amongst the population regarding the government reports. I'll be honest, the reports I'm watching are making it all sound ever more threatening. They're showing the amount of radiation currently being read on Japanese people in the evacuation zone compared to the amount a 30 a day smoker gets in a year (in addition to radiation naturally absorbed) and the difference is staggering.

They're even showing Japanese people arriving in LAX who have left the country. :|

I told my mate he should seriously consider coming home for a while.
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Re: Earthquake has hit Japan

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moozooh wrote:They cannot sustain safe temperatures for any of the cores in Units 1–3, and the spent fuel ponds (which contain lots of radioactive material not as well-shielded as fuel in the cores) are gradually overheating and catching fire, starting with the one at Unit 4
It's no longer a disaster, this is a fucking catastrophe.
moozooh wrote:They are within normal limits for now (if I read the units right), but show an increase from normal background radiation of 14.0 CPM (~0.12 µSv/h) to 27.5 CPM (~0.23 µSv/h) over the past day alone.
Note that CPM activity can only be converted to an equivalent dose after modelling/analysis of the type of the emitter and cross-section of the absorbed (human body). The estimates are sketchy at best and you should only use it as an indication that material has been transferred. There are some "rule-of-thumb" conversions, but the readings themselves are quite normal. The trouble really is the material transfer, the radiation can sway wildly in some areas and remain undetectable in others. That said, looking at the chart's recent activity, I'm VERY concerned about the Fukushima area. The need to expand the exclusion zone to 60km at least.
rancor wrote:..Hopefully when all of this is over.
I'm afraid it's going to be a long time until the consequences of this are even understood, let alone boil over. Relax and keep your eye on that chart, you should definitely avoid an rainfall for the coming weeks. Stock up on water which has been bottled before the explosion at Unit-3. I'm trying to strike a balance between absolutely freaking you guys out (I've known for a while the extent of the damage here) and giving you advice to protect yourself and family.

The government of Japan (and indeed, anyone else for that matter) really does not have the resources, if the event should call for it, to evacuate 35 million people. That's why you shouldn't really pay attention to the non-technical politicians who are trying to break things slowly to people. It's kind of like old school countries where I'm from, where if a person dies, you break it to the person asking slowly. "Oh he's sick", "he's in hospital" then "I'm sorry but he passed away", all while he's already dead. This is what is happening with the announced state of these reactors.

Anyway, you can also adopt the way I look at absorbing radiation -- no dose is safe, but just like buying/selling assets (which you need to do to survive) there's no risk free investment. A higher dose just means there's a higher risk. Is the investment of staying where you are worth the risk (and of course, "unknown risk")? That's up to you and your family to decide. There is a risk in moving, afterall...
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Re: Earthquake has hit Japan

Post by Elixir »

Don't bother with international media, they're just amplifying the situation.

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Re: Earthquake has hit Japan

Post by NTSC-J »

I must be the only person planning on going to Tokyo this week. My spring break starts this weekend and I wanna see my girlfriend and hang around the nerd shops goddammit.

austere, what about taking showers? My hair gets mighty greasy but I don`t know if its worth getting thyroid cancer just to smell fresh.
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Re: Earthquake has hit Japan

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NTSC-J wrote:I must be the only person planning on going to Tokyo this week. My spring break starts this weekend and I wanna see my girlfriend and hang around the nerd shops goddammit.

austere, what about taking showers? My hair gets mighty greasy but I don`t know if its worth getting thyroid cancer just to smell fresh.
You're nuts man. You should get the plane ticket refunded and fly her to you.
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Re: Earthquake has hit Japan

Post by NTSC-J »

Well I live in Japan and take the train to Tokyo on the weekends. I`m not that far from Fukushima anyway so maybe I`m already soaking in the rays. With any luck, I will gain superhuman strength.

This whole situation makes me want to read Akira again.
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Re: Earthquake has hit Japan

Post by bitkid »

NTSC-J wrote:Well I live in Japan and take the train to Tokyo on the weekends. I`m not that far from Fukushima anyway so maybe I`m already soaking in the rays. With any luck, I will gain superhuman strength.

This whole situation makes me want to read Akira again.
Fuck man...if I were you I'd be getting as far from Fukushima as I could for as long as possible.

I'm praying for all shmups forum Japan residents.
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Re: Earthquake has hit Japan

Post by Aguraki »

yep,tone in the medias has changed and here(france) people are advised to exit japan and all operators flights are cancelled till march 31st(to begin with).
people close to nuclear area should try to get away for a while(I know that sounds crazy and stupid to say,like in the movies,but what else can we say).
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Re: Earthquake has hit Japan

Post by austere »

Elixir wrote:Don't bother with international media, they're just amplifying the situation.
Whereas the Japanese media is being absolutely accurate. :roll: I would say with the abandonment of the control room, this is now very level a level 6 incident. Is Japan really still peddling the level 4 figure? The IAEA's credibility is also now on the line, as discredited it already is as an organisation of international affairs.
NTSC-J wrote:With any luck, I will gain superhuman strength.
From this point onwards all your new hi-score submissions should be disqualified. :mrgreen:
NTSC-J wrote:austere, what about taking showers? My hair gets mighty greasy but I don`t know if its worth getting thyroid cancer just to smell fresh.
Like I said, it's like buying an asset. Is not taking a shower worth it just to avoid exposure? That's the real question.
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Re: Earthquake has hit Japan

Post by Shogun »

Very good infographic about the nuclear reactors:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011 ... actor.html
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Re: Earthquake has hit Japan

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austere wrote:Like I said, it's like buying an asset. Is not taking a shower worth it just to avoid exposure? That's the real question.
I think the issue is that people can't quantify that. If I am investing $1000 in a tech stock because I think their product X is going to outsell someone else's product Y.. I have a gut feel for my odds and I know that I might lose $1000.

If I'm trying to weigh a shower against some possible level of exposure, I have no feel for anything. Looking at it like "well I can take this shower but I might die" is way out of whack. But I don't have the data or the knowledge to make any sensible assessment.

Edit: I really should have gone for buying $1000 worth of PCBs from Japhei.. much better analogy. :mrgreen:
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Re: Earthquake has hit Japan

Post by austere »

Won't die instantly, obviously, but without accurate information from the authorities, you can't quantify anything. Gotta go with your gut on these things, just like buying an asset in the example you gave, nothing is guaranteed. Keeping your money in the bank and NOT buying those stock could result in you losing everything in the event of a currency collapse, for example. So the risk is much more than $1000, there's systematic unknown risk.

EDIT: BTW, you can reduce the risk, by not using a shower head that creates fine particles. Don't use too high a temperature and keep the showers short. Dry quickly. Call me vain, but I'd rather die than not take a shower.
Last edited by austere on Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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