THE greatest run n' guns of all time?

[Obiwanshinobi]

The scrolling locks so you have to shoot things instead of just avoiding or easily bulldozing popcorn enemies. This is unlike Ex-Ranza where you can beat the desert, jungle, and skyscraper stages in less than a minute with a simple strategy and barely any dodging.

I'm not even comparing Ex-Ranza's game design to that of Metal Slug. I just don't like these days how Metal Slug games can be too much like stage 5 of Gunstar Heroes for my liking, with worse input lag to boot (Ex-Ranza was merely an example of a 30 fps game with tighter controls). Eye candy doesn't quite make up for the sluggishness of it anymore.
I'm not dissing Metal Slug, mind you. It's just that other action sidescrollers feel faster/tighter/smoother to me and I like such gaming experience better.

[drauch]

Okay, I admit that Alisia Dragoon could be debatable on the subject matter. It had been about a year since I played it and upon returning to it, I can see your point. Regardless, though, I wasn't trying to bash any of the aforementioned games, but I think a fine line needs to be established to talk about the sub-genre appropriately and accurately with other gamers. I just don't understand how one could group Super Metroid and Megaman with the likes of Contra as far as gameplay goes.

[louisg]

I think Thexder and Alisia Dragoon are too exploration-oriented and unarcade-like to qualify. Not that I don't like those two. Thexder 2 is badass, btw

[Drum]

I can't believe so many of you don't actually understand what a run 'n gun is. Hint: Super Metroid isn't one.

Alisia Dragoon has really, really fast gameplay - especially compared to Metal Slug, which is the slowest and most deliberate game you listed.

You just don't get it.

I wasn't saying Alisia Dragoon qualifies, only that it's faster-paced than the games he said that do. Please pay attention!

Q: Which version of Hard Corps should I be playing? J or U? Been watching some clips on youtube and I think this is a game I should have really stuck with. And is there a big difference between Ex-Ranza and Ranger-X that I should know about?

[Obiwanshinobi]

Japanese Hard Corps is easier since it takes three hits to kill a playable character. It also gives you unlimited contiunes.
As for Ex-Ranza, if I remember correctly, easy and hard modes are disabled in the Japanese version (although you can unlock them with a code). Not sure if every version grants you access to the secret stage.

[Drum]

Just wanted to bump this thread and say Vectorman is terrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrible.

Is the sequel any better?

[louisg]

Just wanted to bump this thread and say Vectorman is terrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrible.

Totally agreed. And it's not much of a run n gun either.

[Stormwatch]

I disagree, Vectorman is decent (and it looks amazing for a MD game). The sequel, however, is quite poor.

And, true, neither qualifies as run-and-gun.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

The best run 'n gun is the one I feel like playing at the time. Sometimes I feel like the gritty ones like Contra 3 are the best, other days I'll proclaim Metal Slug as the king of the hill. I kind of have a soft spot for Neo Contra 'cause of its wacky awesomeness.

[DocHauser]

Vectorman is good, though some of the mini-game type levels don't work particularly well. The platformy-shooty bits are pretty solid.

Only played the sequel a couple of times. It seemed a bit uninspired compared to the first game.

[DocHauser]

On the subject of Contra, does anyone think that the much-vaunted difficulty of the series is somewhat exaggerated? For example, here's an IGN article from 2007, with Contra the #1 'Toughest Game To Beat'

http://uk.games.ign.com/articles/774/774911p2.html

"Contra is virtually impossible to beat without entering the Konami code."

Is it, though? I saw that article recently and thought I'd give Contra a go again (I've mainly played Hard Corps and Shattered Soldier in the past). After about a dozen attempts I could beat the first 4 stages without dying. I know there's still a fair way to go, but it just seems like a matter of practice to me, same as the other games in the series. I can think of lots of other games that still kick my ass no matter how much I practice...

[TVG]

It's mainstream gaming journalism, it's not supposed to make sense. You're not supposed to pay attention to what they're saying because it will be BS 99% of the time. Rather, enjoy the fact they talk about these games at all and maybe get people interested.

The nes contras are relatively easy games, 3 is easy on normal, hard corps has a lot of things you need to memorise but it becomes simple placement and slides once you learn. The arcade contras are kinda poo so they don't count.
admit it, they kinda are

[DocHauser]

I'm not sure it's just mainstream journalism, though. It seems to be generally accepted that Contra games are insanely difficult. I guess people just aren't willing enough to put in the effort required to beat them. Possibly because they seem daunting at first and that puts people off. But once you get into them you find they're not as difficult as you thought.

There is one game on that IGN list that probably deserves to be higher than Contra: Super Ghouls n' Ghosts. I credit-fed to the 'end' when it did the usual trick of sending you back to the beginning to go through the 2nd loop and I thought 'Bollocks to that, I'm not playing through it again' and gave up. I see there is a no-death speed run of SGnG on youtube, though, so even that isn't entirely impossible...

[Ghegs]

NES Contra always tends to rate high in "Most difficult games EVAR" -type of lists, even though it's a pretty easy game. My theory on this is that the makers of these lists had the game as a child, could never beat it back then and are rating the game's difficulty based on the skill of their 7-year old selves.

[drauch]

If anything Contra isn't an easy game, but it's certainly no where near the amazingly hard status it receives.

[austere]

I've yet to play a game in this sub-genre that can top Metal Slug, Metal Slug 2 or Metal Slug X. (Note: I haven't spent much if any time with Metal Slug 3 yet) Of those three, I would say Metal Slug is close to perfection, even though it's the easier one in my experience, it doesn't rely on cheesy themes. I've been playing it for 13 years and I've yet to feel bored of it, even slightly. The animation, the controls, the multitude of attack options, the metal slugs themselves, the music, the war theme and even the ending scenes are all monumental in gaming history. You can tell the Nazca guys all poured their heart and soul into it.

Actually, if I was forced to decide which action game is the greatest I have ever played, I may very well choose Metal Slug.

See you in hell.

[louisg]

I've yet to play a game in this sub-genre that can top Metal Slug, Metal Slug 2 or Metal Slug X. (Note: I haven't spent much if any time with Metal Slug 3 yet) Of those three, I would say Metal Slug is close to perfection, even though it's the easier one in my experience, it doesn't rely on cheesy themes. I've been playing it for 13 years and I've yet to feel bored of it, even slightly. The animation, the controls, the multitude of attack options, the metal slugs themselves, the music, the war theme and even the ending scenes are all monumental in gaming history. You can tell the Nazca guys all poured their heart and soul into it.

Actually, if I was forced to decide which action game is the greatest I have ever played, I may very well choose Metal Slug.

See you in hell.

MS1 & 2 are my favorites, easily. 3 is just a big mess that needs some serious editing. Though, it's a shame that 2 has such an incredible amount of slowdown. Well, that and the nearly impossible final level

[austere]

The slow down doesn't put me off too much anymore to be honest and the last level (specifically the final boss, heh) is a challenge I've yet to overcome. Sad to hear that you think Metal Slug 3 isn't that good but I'm not surprised given what I have already seen of it. I will still give it a shot, along with the rest of the series, one day. Not expecting anything special out of the SNK Playmore ones though.

Call them Action Shooters. The cool thing about this term is that it tells you the two genres it mixes instead of trying to be cute.

Heh, run and gun makes about as much sense as prone and knife, slide and fall, crouch and shuriken, etc. But to be honest I never liked "action shooters" either. It's quite vague. They're definitely shooters, but then it's already given that they're also action games since shooters are a sub-genre of action games.

Oh well, since "action shooters" is the established convention in Japan, I may as well just give up and adopt it. I'm sure you could come up with a better name for it though.

[antron]

I can't believe so many of you don't actually understand what a run 'n gun is. Hint: Super Metroid isn't one.

then you aren't playing it right.

[drauch]

Though, it's a shame that 2 has such an incredible amount of slowdown. Well, that and the nearly impossible final level

Yeah, 2 has a ton of slowdown, but at least there is XX.

[Drum]

The slow down doesn't put me off too much anymore to be honest and the last level (specifically the final boss, heh) is a challenge I've yet to overcome. Sad to hear that you think Metal Slug 3 isn't that good but I'm not surprised given what I have already seen of it. I will still give it a shot, along with the rest of the series, one day. Not expecting anything special out of the SNK Playmore ones though.

Call them Action Shooters. The cool thing about this term is that it tells you the two genres it mixes instead of trying to be cute.

Heh, run and gun makes about as much sense as prone and knife, slide and fall, crouch and shuriken, etc. But to be honest I never liked "action shooters" either. It's quite vague. They're definitely shooters, but then it's already given that they're also action games since shooters are a sub-genre of action games.

Oh well, since "action shooters" is the established convention in Japan, I may as well just give up and adopt it. I'm sure you could come up with a better name for it though.

Metal Slug 3 is the best in the series, but if you are stuck on the war theme you won't care for it the way you do MS1 & 2.

[austere]

I'm not so sure about that, though the theme is important to me. You know roughly where and how a cannon is going to fire but how a freshly encountered one eyed lizard-type alien is going to zap you is a complete mystery. Anyway, I could end up liking Metal Slug 3 better than Metal Slug itself, I'd have to play it properly to find out if I do. It has been almost a decade since I last saw that game after all.

[Snake]

"Contra is virtually impossible to beat without entering the Konami code."

LOL

[Mortificator]

Challenge: explain why Metal Slug 3 is better than its predecessors, without talking about the graphics.

[drauch]

Huge variety of Slugs to pilot, enemies to kill, and paths to take, thus creating lots of replay value. Honestly, that's all that I think really needs to be said.

[louisg]

Huge variety of Slugs to pilot, enemies to kill, and paths to take, thus creating lots of replay value. Honestly, that's all that I think really needs to be said.

Yeah, I agree it's got that, but it really lacks the tightness of 1 & 2. For example, the second level is a complete drag (including the boss), and probably should've been tweaked or removed. It has some ideas that are some of the best in the Slug series, but then some parts which aren't as good as anything in the first couple games. It's a big, creative, totally unfiltered grab-bag.

[Snake]

Huge variety of Slugs to pilot, enemies to kill, and paths to take, thus creating lots of replay value. Honestly, that's all that I think really needs to be said.

Yeah, I agree it's got that, but it really lacks the tightness of 1 & 2. For example, the second level is a complete drag (including the boss), and probably should've been tweaked or removed.

Boy have I always thought this. I like the rest of the game quite a bit, and the branching helps with replay value, but the second level is just a slog.

[BIL]

You can kill MS3's second boss in no time flat, provided you conserve grenades throughout the level. Get transformed by the very last doctor zombie before the fight starts, bomb the circling aliens, change back and grenade the fuck out of everything. Shouldn't take more than a minute.

[Drum]

Challenge: explain why Metal Slug 3 is better than its predecessors, without talking about the graphics.

Challenge defied: None of them have great gameplay, so the one with the best graphics wins.

[drauch]

Boo. Hiss.