Hard Corps: Uprising(successor to Contra HC)- XBLA

[MadScientist]

So IMO it's not an instant classic at all... Sometimes I wonder if this forum isn't critical enough!

Matter of opinion. I noticed that you said Space Invaders: Infinity Gene was outstanding over on that thread whereas I think it's a horrible disaster of a game. If you look at the criticisms you're levelling at HC:U, you could apply many of them to SI:IG, yet for some reason you appear to like it more. Take the scoring for instance, which you claim is 'broken' (hate that description) in HC:U - in SI:IG most of your score will come from the rare moments when you can safely rack up one of those dumb Nagoya attack chains - in a game that lasts upwards of 2 hrs, the majority of your score will come from the minute or two where you can rack up millions of points using Nagoya attacks. That seems pretty 'broken' (ugh) to me. How come you didn't pick up on this? Weren't you critical enough?

[TVG]

You're frustrated because we like it?

Your only complaints boil down to "it's not exactly what I expected (add inane rambling)" and "it's too hard". No matter how many times you rewrite the original post while arguing vague points like frustration and fairness, you sound just as bad, if not worse, than the shit reviewers. Worse actually because you're hypocritical and rag on them while doing the exact same.

You're on a fucking website where people enjoy battle garegga, where people enjoy cave games, pulstar, and all kinds of shit that do not have the tinyest sense of being "fair". This game has a few legitimate flaws like the scoring system (I can't however, thing of one run n gun that's not garbage if played for score) the loadings or, apparently accordiong to some complaints, the character speed I guess. But is still very well made in multiple ways. Your posts are total shit.

[antares]

My only criticism about this game is the slow fire rate in arcade mode. You just can't trigger the shot button on a pad as fast as on a stick. And playing this with a stick where you need at least 6 buttons is equally cumbersome.

If I play this game in Rising mode with everything disabled except auto fire I give it a 9.
Otherwise it's still an 8.

[Skykid]

So IMO it's not an instant classic at all... Sometimes I wonder if this forum isn't critical enough!

Matter of opinion. I noticed that you said Space Invaders: Infinity Gene was outstanding over on that thread whereas I think it's a horrible disaster of a game. If you look at the criticisms you're levelling at HC:U, you could apply many of them to SI:IG, yet for some reason you appear to like it more. Take the scoring for instance, which you claim is 'broken' (hate that description) in HC:U - in SI:IG most of your score will come from the rare moments when you can safely rack up one of those dumb Nagoya attack chains - in a game that lasts upwards of 2 hrs, the majority of your score will come from the minute or two where you can rack up millions of points using Nagoya attacks. That seems pretty 'broken' (ugh) to me. How come you didn't pick up on this? Weren't you critical enough?

Actually I've quite gone off that game since I bought it. I still think it's good, but do agree with your criticisms.

You're on a fucking website where people enjoy battle garegga, where people enjoy cave games, pulstar, and all kinds of shit that do not have the tinyest sense of being "fair".

I'm not on a fucking website, that would be xhamster.com.
What's unfair about Battle Garegga, Pulstar and Cave games?

Also, the only person I can see who said the game was 'unfair' was evil_ash_xero on the previous page. I said Arcade mode could be 'unfriendly' and 'frustrating.'

I think you're missing my constructive arguments against. I made clear points, not 'inane ramblings'. I'm not ragging on the game for being too hard (not ragging on it at all in-fact), I'm criticising the structuring of arcade mode vs rising mode. I said I'd be happy to give the game a 7 (is that a terrible score?) based on arcade and Rising in conjunction, but no more than that because I feel like Arc System have created an imbalanced game.

Give me hard games, please, and more of them. Just perhaps not ones with underpowered weaponry, off-screen pitfalls and cheap deaths, or secondary concessionary modes if the default is too frustrating. This is a good memoriser, but I've played memorisers in the genre that are a lot more fun.
I hope everyone's okay with that being my opinion of the game, don't take it to heart, even if you're head over heels in love with it.

I've noted several times what I think the reasons are this isn't an instant classic, so perhaps you folks can tell me some reasons as to why you think it is? Maybe what it does better than other games in the genre that aren't given that hallowed status.
I'll take on what you say and go back to the game tonight with fresh eyes and see if I can change my perceptions.

[PepsimanVsJoe]

This guy? That guy?

At least get my name right.

I changed the score from an 8 to a 6.25 because there's just too many issues to ignore. Most of them are minor but they accumulate to the point
where the game becomes less fun. If it's any consolation I think Space Invaders: Infinity Gene sucks.

[JoshF]

The slow fire rate makes the aiming more precise, and the manual shooting connects you to the shooting action more than a game where you might as well tape down the fire button. Also, you get to shoot enemies in the back. Come on people this game is legendary.

[Rob]

underpowered weaponry,

Carefully manage your weapon power-ups. Don't risk losing a x2 or x3 machine gun mid-stage just because you have it. The default weapon is enough for the stage grunts, save something good for the bosses.

[Skykid]

underpowered weaponry,

Carefully manage your weapon power-ups. Don't risk losing a x2 or x3 machine gun mid-stage just because you have it. The default weapon is enough for the stage grunts, save something good for the bosses.

I know this. When I have a powered up machine gun or a homing laser I can whip the stage into shape. The problem is I'm so cautious about losing it I end up taking everything real s-l-o-w. Being overly cautious nearly always means you invariably end up taking a hit and losing the weapon anyway. Only way to be sure is to have the stage so down pat that you don't run the risk of being left with the peashooter. I'm normally comfortable for the first two and I'm getting the third. The second still manages to catch me out with sheer attack volume = randomness if I'm honest though.
Answer to this problem: More weapons that actually benefit you as opposed to so many redundant ones.
Not having a peashooter as a fall back weapon (hello Rising mode.)

The slow fire rate makes the aiming more precise, and the manual shooting connects you to the shooting action more than a game where you might as well tape down the fire button.

I'm sure you can do better than that.

[JoshF]

I can't do better than that I'm afraid. It's why I never play beat 'em ups with auto fire also. You don't feel the punches when you just hold down a button.

Slow fire rate means you gotta align shots with regular gun rather than just point in the direction and wait for it to hit a constant stream.

[Skykid]

I can't do better than that I'm afraid. It's why I never play beat 'em ups with auto fire also. You don't feel the punches when you just hold down a button.

I don't get the argument, but each to their own. I can't imagine anyone playing beat-em-ups with autofire, but like autofire being very desirable on certain shmups (raiden etc) I certainly think it would benefit arcade mode big time in Uprising. In my opinion of course.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Finally download this cool HC:U game today. The opening anime intro has that heavily hard-edged cyberpunk stylized look that could only come from the fine folks at Arc themselves. Of course, Studio 4C is the company whom did the actual animation (just like they did the opening anime intro for the recently released game Catherine for the 360 & PS3).

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[chronicdog]

I've noted several times what I think the reasons are this isn't an instant classic, so perhaps you folks can tell me some reasons as to why you think it is?

- The hand drawn sprites and 3d backgrounds look great
- The music is incredible
- The stages each feel unique and have appropriate bosses
- 8 Full stages instead of the 5-6 which are typical of this genre
- The weapons are varied and fun to use
- The controls are deep and very tight
- Its one of the only run n gun games Ive ever played that has online coop, and its not region restricted
- Its one of the only run n gun games Ive ever played that has an RPG style levelling system, with 4 characters which take probably 10 hours of play each to fully level up.
- Endless level of challenge which will keep even the most hardcore players coming back
- Only costs $20

The negatives are mainly that the scoring system in arcade mode is broken, which is in my opinion a HUGE, glaring flaw. This seriously hurts the longevity of this game for me.

[DragonInstall]

The music is really nice. I'm always pumped to shoot things because of it.

I enjoy this game more than contra super c and contra 3. Those were the only contra games I played in the past.

I do wish the rate of fire was the same when holding down the trigger as if you were tapping it quickly.

[TodayIsForgotten]

I would have to agree with Skykid. I thought the game overall was good. Maybe even slightly better than good. It won't be a classic but i have no issue saying it is a nice buy to kill 20 some hours with.

I also agree with Pepsi on his rating. I'm ok with the game being a 6.5 Thats a good rating. Realistically, a 6.25 is a pretty good rating. I would also agree with a rating of 8, but i think that is a bit generous. I would rate the game betwen a 7-7.5. Making it a good to a bit better than good game.

I didn't think the game was that hard and it just goes to show how coddled new "gamers" are becoming, moreso than in the past. If the game isn't defaulted to easy or has the option to set it on easy - then it's way too hard.

I saw someone talking about static memorization. This game has just that. There are no surprises. Every boss has the same pattern.

I thought the weapons upgrades were fine the way they were. I mean in the orignal contra the fire weapon was sorta pointless, was it not? The heat weapon in this game has a charge shot which makes it a full-ranged weapon and very strong. Normal gun is pretty strong too. Not sure how its under powered.

Aside from being a bit too anime'ish I feel its a good entry into the genre. Although, it shares no ties with contra and perhaps a very small companionship with hardcorps it is worth a go...or two.

[Skykid]

I've noted several times what I think the reasons are this isn't an instant classic, so perhaps you folks can tell me some reasons as to why you think it is?

- The hand drawn sprites and 3d backgrounds look great
- The music is incredible
- The stages each feel unique and have appropriate bosses
- 8 Full stages instead of the 5-6 which are typical of this genre
- The weapons are varied and fun to use
- The controls are deep and very tight
- Its one of the only run n gun games Ive ever played that has online coop, and its not region restricted
- Its one of the only run n gun games Ive ever played that has an RPG style levelling system, with 4 characters which take probably 10 hours of play each to fully level up.
- Endless level of challenge which will keep even the most hardcore players coming back
- Only costs $20

The negatives are mainly that the scoring system in arcade mode is broken, which is in my opinion a HUGE, glaring flaw. This seriously hurts the longevity of this game for me.

Lesshavealooksee!

"- The hand drawn sprites and 3d backgrounds look great" Yep, I'll give you that. The game is damn nice looking.

"- The music is incredible" I think 'incredible' might be pushing it there. In-fact I pretty much find the elevator rock yawnsome. Shattered Soldier gets me more pumped. Hell, so does Contra 3. In-fact, this is my least favourite Contra soundtrack, if you're classing it in the series.

"- The stages each feel unique and have appropriate bosses" They have variety I agree, but amazingly they don't feel very varied to play IMO. Weird but true I think.

"- 8 Full stages instead of the 5-6 which are typical of this genre" Definitely get plenty of bang for your buck, but I actually think its length can be considered an issue, same ways as & Punishment 2. Very inconvenient for a one sitting play through.

"- The weapons are varied and fun to use" Wut? They're mostly shitty and lack range. They're only fun if you monster a couple of them up because suddenly you can actually kill stuff at a reasonable speed.

"- The controls are deep and very tight" Yes, but only if you learn every aspect of the stage by rote, or else you'll dash/vault/flip and kill yourself.

"- Its one of the only run n gun games Ive ever played that has online coop, and its not region restricted" Unfortunately co-op is a bloody nightmare, which kind of blunts the edge on that one.

"- Its one of the only run n gun games Ive ever played that has an RPG style levelling system, with 4 characters which take probably 10 hours of play each to fully level up. " I agree, Rising mode makes the game enjoyable. A well implemented system, but a guilty cop out at the same time. I can't imagine anyone levelling up four characters though, balls to that, it takes an age just to do one. If it's the only game you buy this year maybe.

"- Endless level of challenge which will keep even the most hardcore players coming back" Or challenge that will even turn hardcore players off. There's learning curve tough and then there's unnecessarily, awkwardly tough. It's not for everyone.

"- Only costs $20 " A good price. Buying more characters is extortion though.

Still not convinced of instant classic status yet. It's not had a mention in the best run n' gun thread either afaik.

Eurogamer gave it a 7 btw.

[Klatrymadon]

Is your rank mainly linked to your speed in this one? I've been getting S-ranks for stages in which I definitely died.

[Zaarock]

I think the ranks are just tied to your score in the stage. Highest time bonus is 3mil and no-miss is 5mil. S-rank is probably something like 3.5-4mil, so if you get a good time you'll probably get it.

@skykid: what weapons do you think are useless? Crash gun and ripple? That's just two weapons though.. not "most". They don't show up that often but I don't pick them up either.

I hear level 3 crash gun does huge damage though so it's probably good for something if you're good at using it. Ripple reflects all projectiles so you can probably just run through stage 7 holding attack with it at level 3, but it's not all that fun to use IMO.

Still don't get the argument about the game being ridiculously hard.. do you really die 27 times on arcade mode without there being some simple mistakes you can learn from?

[Ghegs]

I hear level 3 crash gun does huge damage though so it's probably good for something if you're good at using it. Ripple reflects all projectiles so you can probably just run through stage 7 holding attack with it at level 3, but it's not all that fun to use IMO.

This is touching on something that's started to bug me. It takes three power-ups to get a weapon to max. strength, so for some weapons (like Ripple) it can take several stages to get it fully powered up since their icons don't show up as often. And the difference between level 1 and level 3 firepower is pretty huge, so getting hit and losing that level 3 kick-ass weapon really, really hurts.

And of course, losing the good weapons can add several minutes to fighting through the stages and the bosses when you're stuck with the peashooter (or just having a lvl1 version instead of a lvl3 one). Even with the bosses you can just keep shooting at constantly, not to mention the ones that only have a brief window in their pattern during which they can be damaged, like Stage 3's boss. With a level 3 machinegun he can be destroyed in two passes quite easily and quickly. With the peashooter...not so much.

The punishment for getting hit here might be the harshest in a Contra game yet.

[Zaarock]

Yeah, it's really harsh.. especially considering the chain laser, but that weapon is maybe the best in the game anyway. I would've liked a system where your weapon levels down if you get hit, since multiples of the same weapon icon don't show up that often apart from the first two stages anyway.

Last time I played bahamut I got up to st5 midboss with no deaths, but no weapons... the two bosses in that stage are probably the hardest in the game if you don't have good weapons.

I'm going to try to get the 1lc on coop actually because of this.. a friend can play bahamut/harley while I play sayuri. Can destroy the bosses and keep eachother alive even if the other player starts losing weapons every once in a while.

[Skykid]

I think the ranks are just tied to your score in the stage. Highest time bonus is 3mil and no-miss is 5mil. S-rank is probably something like 3.5-4mil, so if you get a good time you'll probably get it.

@skykid: what weapons do you think are useless? Crash gun and ripple? That's just two weapons though.. not "most". They don't show up that often but I don't pick them up either.

I hear level 3 crash gun does huge damage though so it's probably good for something if you're good at using it. Ripple reflects all projectiles so you can probably just run through stage 7 holding attack with it at level 3, but it's not all that fun to use IMO.

Still don't get the argument about the game being ridiculously hard.. do you really die 27 times on arcade mode without there being some simple mistakes you can learn from?

I never said it was ridiculously hard, I said it was unnecessarily and awkwardly tough to learn because of arcade mode's underpowered weaponry and busy design. That doesn't make it impossible to learn, it's just a question of whether or not you have the patience to be bothered. The last two stages are hair tearing on arcade - it's not everyone's idea of fun.
I wish you dudes would stop pinpointing difficulty as my main gripe, that's putting words in my mouth.

The crash gun (that's the arcing grenade launcher right?) is only decent for point blanking bosses. It's limited range and speed make it suicide when trying to take out multiple enemies. Ripple might deflect bullets but its range is literally centimeters beyond your character, which doesn't help when attacks come from all sides (like on stage 2 where you first get it.) It's fine if you want to stand in one spot and deflect things for points grinding, but doesn't make for very progressive play.
The heat gun is just useless in the field. Once again on its lowest level it has not just a range issue, but a delayed charging issue that is completely counter productive to what you need to do (mow down enemies quickly.) If you hold onto it until it's powered up it's a touch more useful, but you'll never keep it that long if you have the opportunity to grab something better.
The peashooter is underpowered and makes your game cautious and deliberate to make sure you're being as effective as possible with it.

That's four weapons that don't seem to have much usefulness, leaving the machine gun, which is a breath of fresh air each time you get one, the spread gun, which is still a bit weak but at least has all-important range, or the Laser, which is like a gift from above because of its power and homing properties. The only problem with it is that you still have to move relatively slowly because of its low firing rate.

Arcade mode's underpowered weaponry is the crux of the issue for me. I believe it's Arc System's most poorly implemented and mis-calculated area of the game. A powered up machine gun gives you a glimpse of pace, power and contra of old. It's still hard and there's still plenty to avoid, but finally you're running and gunning and that's a nice feeling (until you lose it.)
Holding out for few and far between decent weapons doesn't feel right to me, and the standard gun doesn't help. In Contra, mowing down enemies was possible with all the weapons in all the spots, you just had to use them a little more tactically. None would limit your speed though.

Ghegs chimed in with this just as I was about to post. This is good clarification of the point:

This is touching on something that's started to bug me. It takes three power-ups to get a weapon to max. strength, so for some weapons (like Ripple) it can take several stages to get it fully powered up since their icons don't show up as often. And the difference between level 1 and level 3 firepower is pretty huge, so getting hit and losing that level 3 kick-ass weapon really, really hurts.

And of course, losing the good weapons can add several minutes to fighting through the stages and the bosses when you're stuck with the peashooter (or just having a lvl1 version instead of a lvl3 one). Even with the bosses you can just keep shooting at constantly, not to mention the ones that only have a brief window in their pattern during which they can be damaged, like Stage 3's boss. With a level 3 machinegun he can be destroyed in two passes quite easily and quickly. With the peashooter...not so much.

The punishment for getting hit here might be the harshest in a Contra game yet.

[TVG]

I'll develop later but ripple and laser is probably the best combination for the last stages (5 and beyond). Ripple does not have much use for the first stages but afterwards it makes a lot of the hard sections very easy. Crash gun is for point blanking bosses, but ripple is way better overall. Also while you dash it creates a sort of bubble around you that shields you.

[Klatrymadon]

Cheers, Zaarock - sounds about right.

Does anybody have any tips for Arachne? He's clearly a very easy boss, but I keep getting caught out by the green bullets in his first attack. I can get through the rest of the level untouched, so I'll be all set once I start jumping through these cunts consistently.

The stage after it is utterly fantastic, too. The reviewer who said the part where you have to ride the rockets is "too difficult to be fun" is a big jessy.

[Skykid]

I'll be all set once I start jumping through these cunts consistently.

That's an impressive turn of phrase.

[TVG]

Cheers, Zaarock - sounds about right.

Does anybody have any tips for Arachne? He's clearly a very easy boss, but I keep getting caught out by the green bullets in his first attack. I can get through the rest of the level untouched, so I'll be all set once I start jumping through these cunts consistently.

The stage after it is utterly fantastic, too. The reviewer who said the part where you have to ride the rockets is "too difficult to be fun" is a big jessy.

Assuming you either kept the green machinegun that drops right before or you have a laser or someshit:

As soon as the fight begins, drop down as low as you can on the trains (then air dash at the right height to grip again) while remaining on the same, right side. You now have plenty of time to shoot him. When the cunts are about to reach you avoid them, jump on the left side and come back on the right side to finish him off, which is a couple shots away now. Remain on the right side which is now safe until he widens the gap between the sides, now you can jump on the left side and shoot it safely without having to dodge anything.

[Klatrymadon]

Ace, thanks!

[evil_ash_xero]

My main problem is that you are too slow and too underpowered, until you level yourself up in Rising mode. It's kind of weird. Once you get "rapid fire", "speed king", and a number of the other moves, then it feels like the game it's supposed to be. It's a weird way of putting it together. Makes arcade mode pretty much useless, since you're stuck with that crappy default speed, and the other things I mentioned.

[Skykid]

My main problem is that you are too slow and too underpowered, until you level yourself up in Rising mode. It's kind of weird. Once you get "rapid fire", "speed king", and a number of the other moves, then it feels like the game it's supposed to be. It's a weird way of putting it together. Makes arcade mode pretty much useless, since you're stuck with that crappy default speed, and the other things I mentioned.

You see what I was getting at in our PM exchange now right? (I was only playing arcade that week )

[TVG]

To me rising mode feels like turning god mode on and plowing trough the stages. Doesn't feel like the game is supposed to be like that. The worst is krystal max speed, it's just ridiculous.

As for "unintended" low power starting characters:
This is a game where, after defeating the last boss, you are asked to make a semi hard jump on a copter where you might very well blow all your lives the first time you get to it. A punishing weapon system is not "unintended". The game is hard and punishing. Thankfully there's a thousand mediocre twin stick shooters for you to play out there, or badly designed rehashes with a joke as a level design.

By the way, Skykid, did the game kill your dog or what? I've never seen someone post so fucking much on a topic for a game he doesn't like. And you took it to PM too?

I had my fair share of bashing random games that might not always been that bad, but generally I move on at some point. I don't get "frustrated" at people liking a game and telling them they are not critical enough. You're ridiculous.

[DragonInstall]

I'm surprised so many people rate this game low. I would give this game a 9/10 for its price.

Great music, tons of character movement options, unique levels, lots of style, nice graphics, and I really could go on naming the pros.
Oh and the final boss battle while falling is probably one of the most epic ways to finish the game. I liked it even more than Metal Slug 3 version of that.

The only thing that bugs me is the whole tapping button is faster than holding the button down. I also think the voice acting is pretty terrible.

I'm not sure if the game would of worked like this, but I was thinking maybe they should make the boss do random moves rather than a preset script. It's more of a suggestion than a complaint.

[Skykid]

By the way, Skykid, did the game kill your dog or what? I've never seen someone post so fucking much on a topic for a game he doesn't like. And you took it to PM too?

No, it didn't live up to my expectations. I had the game a week before general release, in that time evil_ash_xero PM'd me to ask me some questions about it. I didn't 'take' anything to PM.

I don't get "frustrated" at people liking a game and telling them they are not critical enough. You're ridiculous.

It's a debate. I don't expect you to bite back each time I post a dissenting view about the game either, especially if I make a post that's directly intended for another forum member and based on a prior conversation.

I know you've got a hard-on for this game like a catholic priest in a boys dormitory, but that shouldn't mean you get to crow on about how fantastic it is and I get to post nothing at all.